Culling Healthy Animals

"There is something wrong with people who will simply think nothing of killing off animals that are either not up to their personal standards, or that they are having too much trouble finding homes for."

And yet, they will continue to create thousands of them, and sell them to anyone with a ten dollar bill and a coffee can to keep them in. See my point? Which is worse?

S~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShawnC

No, that comparison was made by a member here other than me, but in this same thread. It was a good analogy, so I reused it to explain my point, again, because it takes emotion out of the equation. Didn't I just go over this with you?



No, I said I didn't know her well enough to call her a liar, and said if she were being truthful with me, that she's the first ball breeder I ever met who cares that much to do what she does for her animals. Others backed her up, and respect her for it, so now I do too.



Actually. You said you'd rather let the Iphone get wet than the calculator. That made me laugh, and I thought you were trying to be funny, and break the ice a little. My bad I guess....sheesh. Next time I won't politely laugh.



Sir, you keep misqouting me. Please read above in the last few exchanges I have had with you. Thats not fair, and called putting words in my mouth. I m not here to make friends, andif being truthful is making me look bad, then that OK with me.

Yet again, I am not here to garner approval, and I am just saying what tons of people already think, but never talk about on a forum. The really great thing is that you guys are helping me make my point. Your not attacking my logic, your attacking me personally by misqouting me, and negating my thoughts with GodStatements. Thats your emotions talking, which I totally get, and just keep trying to remind you that it's not about emotions, it's about whats best for the hobby. And whats best is not always what is the easiest, or most fun.

S~

---

Actually I said I would rather lose my iPhone than one of my normal males. You just misquoted me. It's easy to do with this many posts in a thread, huh.
Oh, and you did call Robin a liar. Calling her one flat out then saying "but I'm not calling you a liar" is still calling her a liar.
I think it's pretty obvious that we will not agree here. You won't find tons of members here who will completely agree with you as most of them put the animals first. As was said before, I believe that if you can't or are NOT WILLING to care for any animals that you intentionally bred then you shouldn't be breeding so many animals.
You have mentioned how bad these "Godstatements" are, but you are playing God by picking and choosing who gets to live between animals that you are solely responsible for bringing into the world. I'm not going to continue going back and forth with you. I will just have to hope that you only hatch out attractive babies I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

You don't want a conversation, you don't want a debate. You want us to tell you it's ok.

Good luck with that.

---

LMAO :community

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShawnC

Yes, I seriously think that it's OK to use low value snakes as feeders.

---

Ahhh ... but here is where you implode. You have some posts that talk about using snakes as feeders, but you have many more posts that advocates the killing of low value animals in order to:

#1 save them from a potential owner that won't care for them because they're cheap

#2 save them from being released and being a potential liability to our hobby

#3 save our hobby from a possible pandemic of over production

So which is it? If it's just killing for feeders, I don't think this thread would be 9+ pages long. You're advocating killing for lack of value ... unless I missed the post where you were feeding $100+ snakes to lizards?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShawnC

I understand they are living things, but so are dogs and cats, and we kill tens of millions every year in shelters because they are unwanted...snakes are in the same boat.

---

The fact that shelters are killing cats and dogs doesn't not give the act moral justification. Killing is wrong. People that work in shelters will tell you the same thing. The difference is that people in shelters aren't breeding. You are killing AND breeding ... pointing at people and saying "look, they're doing it too" doesn't justify your actions, it makes you look defensive and sad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShawnC

There are way more out there already than need be.

---

If that's true, then why do you continue to breed? I mean, if it's not about money for you as you said in your original post, what is it then. Not about money and too many snakes out there, yet you continue to produce over 300 snakes a year ... why? Is it because you get a kick out of killing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShawnC

So, lets take a moment before we decide to blow out a bunch of $10 snakes

---

Why do you keep talking about "blowing out" a living creature? These aren't DVD players or big screen TV's ... we're talking about one of the most precious things on the planet ... a life. Why do you have such contempt and disrespect for animals?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShawnC

We are already under pressure. Why make it worse on ourselves to make a few extra bucks. it's not worht it IMHO.

---

So, it's worth it to kill cheap animals so that you can keep breeding and selling the valuable stuff? I see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShawnC

If I offered you an 18 foot brum right now, would you take it and keep it for the rest of your life? Be careful of your answer, I might actually have one to send you. What should I do with that burm now that I can't, or don't want to care for it?

---

If you seriously need to find a home for a burmese python, there are resources available to help you. I know for a fact that USARK and PIJAC both have programs to help you and there are hundreds of rescues nationwide that will take in unwanted burms. If you don't know how to find such resources, I'd be happy to help you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShawnC

It'd be nice to show the govt. we are more than a bunch of money grubbing fools selling $10 mass produced snakes no matter what the cost I think.

---

By showing them that we're so callous and have such a disregard for life that we're willing to kill in order to keep selling "high value" animals that we produce? I think not.

-adam

"So you are by your own definition a large scale breeder because you produce more then 100 animals per year.... And you have been around a long time.

But you also are NOT a big breeder because you only breed 300 babies per year, and that's not many."

It's an attempt at being humble. I know you understand this, but choose to nitpick it anyway. Thats pretty telling. There are people who produce WAY more than that.

"You just started working with ball pythons this year, but somehow we as a ball python forum should consider that you have been around for a long time"

What does species have to do with it? I have been keeping snakes for 30 years. We are using ball pythons because they are the most commonly kept, and popular pet snake...how does that not make sense? Just because i decided to start working with them as a breeder doens't mean I have never seen them before, or know nohting about them. Really?


"This is an idiotic statement at best. You obviously have NO clue what you are talking about. This could not be further from the truth. I am not even going to begin to try to argue my point on this because you have already made it clear that it would be a waste of time. "

Please take a lesson from Wilomn. If you can't debate me, then don't say anything or you risk weakening your own position. Tell me why I have no clue, and then we are moving forward.


" I wish their was a way to immediately ban you from being able to even keep reptiles... let alone breed them. Luckily though sooner or later we will find out who you really are and your business will be in ruins without any outside help"

Emotions are not your friend...I don't have a reptile business. It's a hobby that I enjoy, and have for 30 years. I own other sucessful business's that enable me to have a fun hobby. I am not saying anything that hasn't been discussed multiple times by multiple people in private conversations. I just have the guts to say it here, and invite a discussion, which a few of you are not capable of having without getting all worked up. The funny thing is, most of the large breeders, so far, have had nothing to say...why do you think that it folks?

S~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShawnC

The funny thing is, most of the large breeders, so far, have had nothing to say...why do you think that it folks?

S~

---

Because talking to you is much akin to cleaning a kennel. It may be necessary, but you still get crap on you just from doing it.

You're no better than anyone else. You're not braver. You're not breaking the mold, you're not much of anything other than someone who seems to need a LOT of attention.

Your 15 minutes are almost up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShawnC

"
The funny thing is, most of the large breeders, so far, have had nothing to say...why do you think that it folks?

S~

---

LMAO, I will risk my perfect infraction points on this but you really are misinformed, and everyone in this forum is laughing at you. :8:

Do you have ANY idea who some of the people are taking part in this conversation?

guess not.

Good Day.

Exactly what larger breeders are you looking to hear from on this forum? Adam is one of the largest breeders that regularly posts here and he has no issues responding. The funny thing really is that he DOES do this as his business and is not willing to support this idea, but someone who does this as a hobby is willing to shove it down everyone's throats. That is kinda funny. You strike me as someone who wants to breed for specific things and is willing to just toss the rest. I'm willing to bet that you will stand here and hold your ground even though you will continue to get shut down by the other members, and shortly everyone will forget all about it. When that happens you will get bored then take your ball and go home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

and everyone in this forum is laughing at you.

---

I don't know about "everyone", but judging by the amount of PM's and TXT's I'm getting with the letters LOL in them ... it's a lot. :gj:

-adam

EDIT: sorry, that was supposed to be in a PM ... whoopsie. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waltah!

you will continue to get shut down by the other members, and shortly everyone will forget all about it. When that happens you will get bored then take your ball and go home.

---

Where it will be fed to his arawana and promptly forgotten.