OK I keep getting flack for keeping my snakes in a rack system

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Actually I happen to know quite a bit about Bitis nasicornis, Rhinoceros vipers, and used to raise them. Western Rhino's to be more specific. They are almost identical to Gabbies (Bitis Gabonica) hence the same group name.
They are fat, slow and lazy vipers. They are known to lay in wait for pray to come walking by for days. Now they do have a lightning fast strike, don't get me wrong. They are still rather slow and sluggish
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Almost identical? Far from it.

They are very different, in care requirements and in behavior. You have obviously not worked with Gaboons enough to witness a pissed off adult in full flow, they are NOT sluggish and slow. They may appear to be on the outside, but when they are in a bad mood they're one of the most formidable snakes on the planet. Ask any experienced venomous handler, if a Gaboon is 'Sluggish and slow'

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Originally Posted by Crotalids

Just because i haven't kept them myself doesn't mean i don't know anything about them. My friends keep and breed them, i know more than my fair share thanks. It's all opinion at the end of the day, i think my way is right and the others wrong. Simple as, it's not a big deal.
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You're comparing your second hand knowledge with people who actually care for and breed royals.
Many people who responded to you have been breeding balls for years. So are you saying that their techniques are wrong?

And if you really did know about ball pythons, then you wouldn't be a one man debate team on this particular subject.....

Either way, since you have no keeping experience with the species, it's difficult to find your words credible..........



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Originally Posted by Crotalids

Have you even read the thread? I never said there is anything wrong with tubs. My Gaboon vipers are in tubs right now...

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You didn't?

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a lot of the time racks are used so people can cram in as many snakes as they can. Which is wrong again.

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And telling people how they should do something is not a way to tell them they do it wrong? :rolleyes:

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Every single one has a naturalistic enclosure, that's how it should be.

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we as keepers should try to replicate that as closely as possible.

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But it's my view that every snake should be provided with an enclosure close to their real habitat

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Why because YOU do? Because you know better? Who are you to tell people what they should do when what they do works for their animal?

And again who are you to pass judgment like those?

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It shows no passion at all.

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If that isn't a lack of passion then i don't know what is.

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how do you think it shows any passion when people keep their snakes in a viv/tub

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It's a lack of willingness to put the extra time in to clean naturalistic enclosures?

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Hope you can handle being on a forum with people who lack your passion :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

You're comparing your second hand knowledge with people who actually care for and breed royals.
Many people who responded to you have been breeding balls for years. So are you saying that their techniques are wrong?

And if you really did know about ball pythons, then you wouldn't be a one man debate team on this particular subject.....

Either way, since you have no keeping experience with the species, it's difficult to find your words credible..........



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This isn't Royal specific. Naturalistic enclosures cannot be applied to only Royals, I don't care what the snake is. But it's my view that every snake should be provided with an enclosure close to their real habitat, i don't need to have owned every single snake in the world to make that statement. It's a matter of opinion.

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Originally Posted by Crotalids

Almost identical? Far from it.

They are very different, in care requirements and in behavior. You have obviously not worked with Gaboons enough to witness a pissed off adult in full flow, they are NOT sluggish and slow. They may appear to be on the outside, but when they are in a bad mood they're one of the most formidable snakes on the planet. Ask any experienced venomous handler, if a Gaboon is 'Sluggish and slow'

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You make me think that YOU don't really deal with either gabbi’s or rhino's. They are virtually identical in care and in behavior. They live within the same region of Africa, albeit one more to the west and the other to the east but their geographical areas do overlap. They again are slow, fat lazy vipers. Their bursts of speed are short lived. Their strikes as I said are lightning fast. What makes them so formidable is their venom and the fact that they mostly never let go of their prey..... they are fat a lazy as I said and don’t really want to go hunting for the dead food item. lol They have one of the most potent venoms to boot.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

You didn't?



And telling people how they should do something is not a way to tell them they do it wrong? :rolleyes:





Why because YOU do?

And again who are you to pass judgment like those?









Hope you can handle being on a forum with people who lack your passion :rolleyes:

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Just because something is accepted doesn't mean it's right, in this case breeders and keepers have made it acceptable to cram royals into small racking systems.

Maybe try to copy the full quote next time as one of them doesn't make sense - "how do you think it shows any passion when people keep their snakes in a viv/tub"

I can put the same question to you, who are you to pass judgement on what i'm saying..

It's all just an opinion, get over it.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

You make me think that YOU don't really deal with either gabbi’s or rhino's. They are virtually identical in care and in behavior. They live within the same region of Africa, albeit one more to the west and the other to the east but their geographical areas do overlap. They again are slow, fat lazy vipers. Their bursts of speed are short lived. Their strikes as I said are lightning fast. What makes them so formidable is their venom and the fact that they mostly never let go of their prey..... they are fat a lazy as I said and don’t really want to go hunting for the dead food item. lol They have one of the most potent venoms to boot.

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Oh really? How about i take a picture of me handling one of my Gaboon's for you tomorrow? And you can take a few pics of you handling some Gab's also to prove you have experience with them.

They are not identical in care and behavior at all. Nasicornis are incredibly prone to stress, and in general are far more nervous than Gaboons. If you're so experienced in this matter please do tell me on the whole what is the different between the two Gaboons in temperament.

Please tell me how you would keep each of the three species, Bitis nasicornis, Bitis rhinoceros and Bitis gabonica - The two gaboons listed, are two very different species in themselves.

Again you proved you don't know much about the topic. Venom toxicity from the three Bitis species listed above is low. It is the yield that makes them dangerous and the size of the fangs, allowing for envenomation deep into muscle tissue and into main arteries.

True, they are lazy. But you obviously have not witnessed a pissed off Gaboon, their burst of speed are short but powerful, and with their muscles they make it almost impossible for you to hook them properly.

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Originally Posted by Crotalids

Just because something is accepted doesn't mean it's right

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Because YOUR way is more acceptable and/or right simply because this is how it's done by you and the majority of people on european forums? :rolleyes:

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I can put the same question to you, who are you to pass judgement on what i'm saying.

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Who am I? well I am definitely not someone judging others and being condescending to them because of the way they keep THEIR animals, but I am definitely not one to hold my tongue when someone acts like you either, you don't see me pass judgment on the way you keep your animals do you?

Again many successful ways to keep animals so long their needs are met........... or maybe only one way so long it's yours :rolleye2:

Anyway enough time wasted on you.

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Originally Posted by Crotalids

This isn't Royal specific. Naturalistic enclosures cannot be applied to only Royals, I don't care what the snake is. But it's my view that every snake should be provided with an enclosure close to their real habitat, i don't need to have owned every single snake in the world to make that statement. It's a matter of opinion.

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But this is a Ball python forum on a ball python husbandry subforum topic.
We are all ball keepers talking about our particular species in a rack system. You're the only one who has really gone off topic with hots. What applies to one species may or may not be applied to one species.

And yes. Its a matter of opinion, but you still say your way is right and we are wrong. I even quoted that in my last post......


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As long as the snake is healthy and doesn't have any problems who cares if its a tub, rack or tank? I keep all of mine in tanks and they're all doing fine. A friend if mine has all of his in racks and they're all doing fine. In the end its all personal opinion anyway so why argue with someone who doesn't do it your way?