BAD GUY-Matt Oakley

a month is was to long of a wait to complain i agree there

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Originally Posted by Haydenphoto

Do you have proof you took the pic years ago ? I hope you see my point !

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No, as I can not get the properties of the pic from my myspace and the pic is so old that it's on none of my current USBs which means it was on the one that broke a while back and because of that I now save my pics on more than one USB. All of my snakes are now housed in racks and that's all I own. You're right, nothing can REALLY be proved unless you see it yourself, pictures can even be photo shopped and edited which is why I stay out of stuff like this (when i'm not involved) because you really don't know what happened unless you were there when it happened. That's what lawyers are for, to show who's the better talker and can get the most people to believe them and discredit any proof the opposition has. After all there are people on death row how didn't commit the crime they were convicted of...

I did not sent a half dead or half alive (however you'd like to work it snake)

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...171/--1jpg.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...171/--2jpg.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...171/--3jpg.jpg

This is the cage she was kept in before being moved to a rack
http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...171/--4jpg.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...redbloodf2.jpg

Wow this truly has become a he said/(s)he said situation. No matter which side you believe, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I want to thank both Trevor and Matthew for their contributions to this thread. I would like to someday get into selling reptiles, and I've learned a lot about the importance of documentation. I have also never ordered an animal through the internet, but would like to someday, and have also learned a lot about keeping records and pictures on the buyers end.

:popcorn:
Mark

I've been watching this thread all day. You both have valid points and both have things that havent been really proven.
Matt claims the snake wasnt sick, but she was in a plane in most likely feezing temps. for who knows how long. That could explain the URI or LRI whichever it may be, its totally possible that the snake got sick from the plane ride.

Things still in question. The mites and that trevor showed off the snake as if nothing was wrong.

Its easy to be over dramatic and say there's 200-300 mites on the snake, Im not saying that its true or false that there were that many, just saying that he may be exaggerating the amount.

Where they came from. They may have been on the snake from the beginning and Matt shipped the snake anyway. Maybe it picked them up on the way. 200-300 is a bit much to pick up during an overnight trip but i would say it could be possible.

I do find it hard to believe that an experienced keeper, seller and someone who has mostly positive feedback of his sales, wouldn't put the snake in a snake bag, even though the method of packing was so poor.

This has become a big mess, i don't think everyone is being truthful with what they have said.

In the end it MIGHT be entirely Matt's fault that this all happened because of the poor packaging, if that's the case then he should make things right and refund the money.

Just my view on this situation

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Originally Posted by MarkieJ

Wow this truly has become a he said/(s)he said situation. No matter which side you believe, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I want to thank both Trevor and Matthew for their contributions to this thread. I would like to someday get into selling reptiles, and I've learned a lot about the importance of documentation. I have also never ordered an animal through the internet, but would like to someday, and have also learned a lot about keeping records and pictures on the buyers end.

:popcorn:
Mark

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This is a very good example on why documenting a sale is so important.

ah another one of these debates....I see these daily on my350Z forums but the difference is that your actually dealing with something thats alive which makes you question the morality of the situation more.

I frown on both of the parties in question for not documenting any of this sell.

I guess now you have both learned a valuable lesson in internet trading from personal sellers. I hope everything works out in the future for both the OP and the seller.

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

Thank you very much. I'm not a bad guy out to get anyone. In over 5 years and almost 700 transactions i've gotten 2 big complaints (this being one) and many many pats on the back that don't make it to the net. I started looking for styrofoam sheets days ago and ONLY shipped without it because of the extreme temps. I haven't has 3/8/05 and that's because the guy left the box on the back porch for 2 days (he even told me this) because he couldn't find it and even then I refunded his money.

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last time i checked styrofoam would insulate from heat and cold, but then again what would i know?
also your pics of this snake do not look the same as it was shipped the shipped one looks very thin.

To matt:

I would question the length of time it took to specify the snake bag was missing. You admitted to that packaging for that snake when you responded to Jamie's query initially and did not mention it then.

In general:

Personally, I would never buy from someone that does not guarantee a 30 day health check (and not all breeders do), let alone someone that does not guarantee a live arrival.

That is one question I ask, even if doing a cash sale at a show, and I get it in writing (yes. I carry my own pens).

If nothing this stands a good example of what documentation and expectations you have of those you buy from, and what documentation is appropriate as both a buyer and a seller.

And always make sure you ask about guarantees, and are comfortable with the answer you get.

Bruce

Perhaps I missed it in this thread but Trevor did you contact Matt when you received and unpacked this snake to confirm it's live arrival and to address with him your concerns about the poor packaging and the excessive number of mites you state were on this snake? If not, how long from when you received the snake until your next contact with Matt and what was the topic of that contact please.

Matt, there is no way if you kept this snake for over a year as you state that you don't have records to post here as to it's health, weight, feeding, etc. Those records might help somewhat to show if you kept this snake within the parameters of good health as you have stated you did.

Trevor, if you've been to the vet as often as you state you have then you should have records, a diagnosis or at least a bill to prove that this snake is very ill and has been on various medications. If the snake has to be euthanized then I would suggest a necropsy to determine fully what caused this snake's death and how long it might have been carrying this illness (if that is possible for your vet to determine). Even without the necropsy has your vet given you any indication of the length of time this particular issue would have been brewing in order for this animal to reach this critically ill stage?

This is a very good lesson in documentation and a good working relationship with breeders you choose to buy from both from the sellers and buyers point of view.

Good points Bruce.

It would be very wise to keep records of transactions as well as any and all emails for instances like this. I'll be taking pictures of future purchases, maybe even video.

Franky-yes I contacted Matt upon arrival via phone call. I told him about the mites and the piss poor packaging, I hadn't noticed the RI until I had her soaking to drown mites.

My only deal is....

He shipped me a healthy snake?

He used the right packaging?

He didn't do this or didn't do that....

But Matt DID hear me out when I called him and sent me back 100 dollars to take care of this girls medical bills.

Why give me back 100 dollars?

I'll check with my vet as to what documents he still has later today.

I really have no more fight in me over this girl you guys, believe what you want. It's been stressful enough trying to get her back to health, now I've got to be called a liar?

Why would I want to lie about this snake?

How does that benefit me?

Do I WANT to put this girl down? No

Do I WANT to have to euthanize her? No

In the end, Matt's got 500 bucks, I've got a dead snake.