I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

After reading the details of this bill, In my opion this is a most of a good thing. This bill wont ban reptiles has a whole, but limt the Importation of nonnative wildlife. Sec 6>a>6 states that any nonative wildlife that is already owned before H.R. 669 may pass is ok to have. There is a part of the bill that makes me uncomfortable and angry and thats Sec 6>a>4 which will ban the breeding of nonnative wildlife.

I also believe this bill will help rid the pet trade of those out there taking advantage of nonnative wildlife and the collectors who are just trying to make a $$$$.

I love my reptiles and my trade as much as anyone eles here, but i would be more then happy to give it all up to help see them thrive in the wild. I think H.R. 669 will help do so.:snake:

With all this being said, I would like to discuss and hear your opions. Iam not tring to start any DRAMA here so please keep the slaming to a limt:)

HR669 will end pet ownership as we know it today. No more breeding or sale of rodents, no more birds, not more fish that are non-native, no more gerbils, hamster, guinea pigs, etc. The ultimate goal by those who are lobbying for this bill is the COMPLETE ban of all pet ownership - including dogs and cats. Not on this bill, but it's the step in the direction that they are going for.

With no sale of rodents, all our captive snakes will not be eating and slowly die of starvation.

There will be more information posted AGAINST the passing of HR669 in the next few days. BP.net does NOT support HR669.

I cant dont see how this bill will effect our rondents that wee feed to our snakes(I can see ASF going out the window), most rats we feeding to snakes is the common Brown Rat which is a native species to all of North America. And as for ASF, there is a good reason why there outlawed in some states as it is, there an aggressive feed and breeding species So I cant even imagine are snakes or even reptiles starving to death, even taking into consideration that all reptile food is for the most part common Mammalia which is found in America itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

most rats we feeding to snakes is the common Brown Rat which is a native species to all of North America.

---

The Brown Rat (Rattus norvegicus) is native to North China. Eventually ended up in Europe, and then sailed the seas to America.

Quote:

---

The Problem:
HR669 The Non-Native Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act is a federal Bill introduced to the US House of Representatives by Del Madeleine Bordallo. It was written by the Defenders of Wildlife (DOW) a radical environmentalist group. It is based on a report called 'Broken Screens' written by DOW and commissioned by the US Fish & Wildlife Service (USFWS). It
recommends a very prejudicial Risk Assessment procedure that takes a guilty until proven innocent approach to adding most non-native animals to the Injurious Wildlife List of the Lacy Act. In addition it recommends appropriating unprecedented amounts of taxpayer dollars to expand the size,
scope and law enforcement role of USFWS. If passed HR669 would end the import, export, purchase, sale, trade and breeding of most non-native animals. It would destroy a 3 Billion dollar a year Reptile Industry overnight. This is not an industry that is made up of corporate titans... just the opposite. The Reptile Industry is made up of Small American Family Businesses and Hobbyists. The underlying intent of HR669 is cast in the radical ideology of the Environmental and Animal Rights movement. It seeks to end the ownership and trade of all non-native animals and destroy American Families using the power of the federal government and our tax dollars to do it. This is NOT science... It IS Powerful Special interests manipulating our political system to their own ends. This is UNACCEPTABLE to USARK and the Reptile Industry.

The Facts: The trade in Reptiles is a 2 billion dollar a year business (closer to 3 billion if you include all the ancillary businesses that support the animals). More than 11 million reptiles are being kept as pets in the US. More than 1 in every 25 households has 1 or more reptiles.There are close to 2 million Pythons and another 2 million Boas in captivity in the US right now. Many worth thousands of dollars each.There are more than 7 million geckos, turtles, lizards and other reptiles in captivity in the US right now.The US is the world leader comprising 82% of the reptile trade worldwide. HR669 is currently being considered by the Subcommittee on Insular Affairs,
Oceans & Wildlife. There is a hearing scheduled for April 23rd. What USARK Is Doing:Hired high powered Washington DC Lobbyist.Meeting with key political figures.Meeting with USFWS.Educating legislators and staff.Raising Funds.Employing a comprehensive strategy to protect the right to own and trade in Reptiles & Amphibians.
What You Must Do Today: If you don't do this our rights are likely to be taken from you. Join The Reptile Nation - There is Strength in Numbers... Protect Your Rights!Contact the Subcommittee Today! See sample letter and contact info below. Be polite & professional!Check the State
represented by Committee Members. If it is your State call them and let them know you are their constituent and you OPPOSE HR669. Rep Henry Brown and Rep Robert Wittman are friendly to us so make sure you contact them!

When you finish send an email to HR669@yahoo.com with
NO on HR669 in the subject line so we can track responses. Forward this Alert to everyone on your email list, forums and social networks.

Send Questions to President@USARK.org
Sample Letter: cut & paste to fax or email
Subject: No on HR669
Dear Committee

Member,

Please oppose HR669.

It is a fundamentally flawed Bill written by a radical
environmentalist group that seeks to end the ownership and trade of all non-native animals. There is not a shred of scientific evidence to justify the destruction of a Reptile Industry that leads the world in producing and exporting high quality captive bred reptiles. With the stroke of a pen thousands of small American family businesses would be bankrupted overnight. With no quantifiable benefits, what could be the justification to destroy a viable sector of the American economy in a time of hardship? What will the additional drain on taxpayer dollars be to grow USFWS at unprecedented levels in order to destroy American small business? These are not the "To big to fail" corporate titans, but small family businesses with their entire net worth wrapped up in their Reptile breeding projects and ancillary supporting businesses. A 3 billion dollar a year industry would be wiped out by HR669. Thousands of American families would suffer losing everything.Trade in Reptiles and ancillary businesses is estimated to be a 3 billion dollar a year industry.More than 9 million Reptiles are exported from the US annually.More than 11 million Reptiles are kept as pets in the US. That means 1 in 25 households have 1 or more Reptiles.The US accounts for 82% of the worldwide trade in Reptiles.At least 500,000 Americans would be negatively impacted by HR669. Thousands of small family businesses would be destroyed.There are approximately 4 million boas & pythons, as well as more than 7 million geckos, lizards turtles & other Reptiles in captivity in the US today.The United States Association of Reptile Keepers Opposes HR669.

Please oppose HR669! The costs to American Families would be enormous. The benefits are both questionable and non quantifiable. NO ON HR669.
Sincerely,

***Contact all members- Make sure you contact the Chairman Madeleine Bordallo, Ranking Republican Henry Brown and Robert Wittman. Henry Brown and Robert Wittman are friendly to us and NEED to hear from us. Send an Email to HR669@yahoo.com w/ NO on HR669 in the subject line so we can track how many have responded.

House Committee on Natural Resources
Subcommittee on Insular
Affairs, Oceans & Wildlife
187 Ford House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/226-0200 (Tel.)
202/225-1542 (Fax)

Madeleine Z. Bordallo
(Ch)(NP-Guam)
427 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515-5301
202/225-1188 (Washington Tel. #)
202/226-0341 (Washington Fax #)
120 Father Duenas Ave., Suite
107
Hagatna, GUAM 96910
671/477-4272 (District Tel. #)
671/477-2587 (District Fax #)
http://www.house.gov/bordallo/IMA/issue.htm


Henry Brown (R-SC) Ranking Republican103 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-3176 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-3407 (Washington Fax #)
1800 North Oak Street, Suite C
Myrtle Beach, SC
29577
843/445-6459 (District Tel. #)
843/445-6418 (District Fax #)
5900 Core Avenue, Suite 401
North Charleston, SC 29406
843/747-4175 (District Tel. #) 843/747-4711 (District Fax #)
http://brown.house.gov/Contact/index.html

Lois Capps (D-CA)
1110 Longworth House
Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-3601 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-5632 (Washington Fax #)
2675 N. Ventura Road, Suite 105
Port Hueneme, CA 93041 805/985-6807 (District Tel. #)
805/985-6875 (District Fax #)
301 E Carrillo Street, Suite A
Santa Barbara, CA 93101
805/730-1710 (District Tel. #)
805/730-9153
(District Fax #)
http://www.house.gov/capps/contact/send_an_email.shtml

William Cassidy (R-LA)
506
Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-3901 (District Tel. #)
202/225-7313 (District Fax #)
5555 Hilton Avenue, Suite 100
Baton Rouge, LA 70808 225/929-7711 (District Tel. #)
225/929-7688 (District Fax #)
http://cassidy.house.gov/contact/index.shtml
Jason Chaffetz (R-UT)
1032 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-7751 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-5629 (Washington Fax #)
51 South University
Ave., Suite 319
Provo, UT 84601
801/851-2500 (District Tel. #)
801/851-2509 (District Fax #)
https://forms.house.gov/chaffetz/contactform.shtml

Donna M. Christensen (NP-Virgin Islands)
1510 Longworth House
Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-1790 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-5517 (Washington Fax #)
Nisky Business Center
Second Floor, Suite 207
St. Croix,
VIRGIN ISLANDS 00802
340/778-4408 (District Tel. #)
340/778-8033 (District Fax #)
P.O. Box 5980
Sunny Isle Shopping Center, Space 25
St. Croix, VIRGIN ISLANDS 00823 340/778-5900 (District Tel. #)
340/778-5111 (District Fax #)
http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Diana L. DeGette (D-CO) 2335 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-4431 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-5657 (Washington Fax #)
600 Grant Street, Suite 202
Denver, CO 80203

303/844-4988 (District Tel. #)
303/844-4996 (District Fax #)
http://www.house.gov/formdegette/zip_auth.htm
Eni F.H. Faleomavaega (NP – American Samoa)
2422 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-8577 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-8757 (Washington Fax #)

P.O. Box, Drawer X
Pago Pago, AMERICAN SAMOA 96799
684/633-1372 (District Tel. #)
684/633-2680 (District Fax #)
faleomavaega@mail.house.gov

Jeff Flake (R-AZ)
240 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-2635
(Washington Tel. #)
202/226-4386 (Washington Fax #)
1640 South Stapley, Suite 215
Mesa, AZ 85204
480/833-0092 (District Tel. #)
480/833-6314 (District Fax #)
jeff.flake@mail.house.gov

John Fleming (R-LA)
1023 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-2777
(Washington Tel. #)
202/225-8039 (Washington Fax #)
6425 Youree Drive, Suite 350
Shreveport, LA 71105
318/798-2254 (District Tel. #)
318/798-2063 (District Fax #) Southgate Plaza Shopping Center
1606 Fifth Street
Leesville, LA 71446
337/238-0778 (District Tel. #)
337/238-0566 (District Fax #)
https://forms.house.gov/fleming/contactform.shtml

Doc Hastings (R-WA)
1203 Longworth House Office Building Washington, DC 20515-4704
202/225-5816 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-3251 (Washington Fax #)
2715 St. Andrews Loop, Suite D
Pasco, WA 99301
509/543-9396 (District Tel.
#)
509/545-1972 (District Fax #)
302 East Chestnut Street
Yakima, WA 98901
509/452-3243 (District Tel. #)
509/452-3438 (District Fax #)
http://hastings.house.gov/ContactForm.aspx

Dale E. Kildee (D-MI)
2107 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC
20515
202/225-3611 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-6393 (Washington Fax #)
432 N. Saginaw Street, Suite 410
Bay City, MI 48708
989/891-0990 (District Tel. #) 989/891-0994 (District Fax #)
515 N. Washington Avenue, Suite 401
Saginaw, MI 48607
989/755-8904 (District Tel. #)
989/755-8908 (District Fax #)
dkildee@mail.house.gov

Ronald James Kind (D-WI)
1406 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-5506
(Washington Tel. #)
202/225-5739 (Washington Fax #)
205 Fifth Ave. South, Suite 400
La Crosse, WI 54601
608/782-2558 (District Tel. #)
608/782-4588 (District Fax #) 131 South Barstow Street, Suite 301
Eau Claire, WI 54701
715/831-9214 (District Tel. #)
715/831-9272 (District Fax #)
ron.kind@mail.house.gov

Frank M. Kratovil, Jr. (D-MD)
314 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-5311
(Washington Tel. #)
202/225-0254 (Washington Fax #)
102 Turpins Lane
Centreville, MD 21617
443/262-9136 (District Tel. #)
443/262-9713 (District Fax #)
https://forms.house.gov/kratovil/contactform.shtml

Douglas L. Lamborn (R-CO)
437 Cannon House Office Building Washington, DC 20515
202/225-4422 (Washington Tel. #)
202/226-2638 (Washington Fax #)
415 Main Street
Buena Vista, CO 81211
719/520-0055 (District Tel. #) 719/520-0840 (District Fax #)
1271 Kelly Johnson Blvd., Suite 110
Colorado Springs, CO 80920
719/520-0055 (District Tel. #)
719/520-0840 (District Fax #)
http://lamborn.house.gov/ZipAuth.aspx

Frank J. Pallone, Jr. (D-NJ)
237 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC
20515-3006
202/225-4671 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-9665 (Washington Fax #)
67/69 Church Street, Kilmer Square
New Brunswick, NJ 08901
732/249-8892 (District Tel. #) 732/249-1335 (District Fax #)
504 Broadway
Long Branch, NJ 07740
732/571-1140 (District Tel. #)
732/870-3890 (District Fax #)
http://www.house.gov/pallone/contact.shtml

Pedro R. Pierluisi (NP-Puerto Rico)
1218 Longworth House Office Building Washington, DC 20515
202/225-2615 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-2154 (Washington Fax #)
250 Calle Fortaleza Old
San Juan, PUERTO RICO 00901
787/723-6333 (District Tel.
#)
787/723-6333 (District Fax #)
https://forms.house.gov/pierluisi/contactform.shtml

Nick Joe Rahall, II
(D-WV)
2307 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-3452 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-9061 (Washington Fax #)
601 Federal Street, Room 1005 Bluefield, WV 24701
304/325-6222 (District Tel. #)
304/325-0552 (District Fax #)
301 Prince Street
Beckley, WV 25801
304/252-5000 (District Tel. #)
304/252-9803
(District Fax #)
http://www.rahall.house.gov/?sectionid=9§iontree=9

Gregorio Sablan (I- Mariana Islands)

423 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-2646 (Washington Tel. #)
https://forms.house.gov/sablan/contactform.shtml

Carol Shea-Porter (D-NH)
1330 Longworth House Office Building Washington, DC 20515
202/225-5456 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-5822 (Washington Fax #)
33 Lowell Street
Manchester, NH 03101
603/641-9536 (District Tel. #) 603/641-9561 (District Fax #)
104 Washington Street
Dover, NH 03820
603/743-4813 (District Tel. #)
603/743-5956 (District Fax #)
http://forms.house.gov/sheaporter/we..._subscribe.htm


Robert J. Wittman (R-VA)
1123 Longworth
House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-4261 (Washington Tel. #)
3504 Plank Road, Suite 203
Fredericksburg, VA 22407
540/548-1086 (District Tel. #) 4904-B George Washington Memorial Hwy.
Yorktown, VA 23692
757/874-6687 (District Tel. #)
https://forms.house.gov/wittman/IMA/..._subscribe.htm


Donald E. Young (R-AK) 2111 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202/225-5765 (Washington Tel. #)
202/225-0425 (Washington Fax #)
101 12th Avenue, #10
Fairbanks, AK 99701-6275

907/456-0210 (District Tel. #)
907/456-0279 (District Fax #)
Peterson Tower Building
510 L Street, Suite 580
Anchorage, AK 99501-1954
907/271-5978 (District Tel.
#)
907/271-5950 (District Fax #)
don.young@mail.house.gov




usark.org
Unsubscribe
Become a Member
Donate
Developed by
Site Control 24/7

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

I cant dont see how this bill will effect our rondents that wee feed to our snakes(I can see ASF going out the window), most rats we feed to snakes is the common Brown Rat which is a native species to all of North America.

---

Rats are NOT native to North America, nor most of the world in which they inhabit.

The fact you think HR669 is "most of a good thing" is frightening. It could cost our already fragile economy billions and cost thousands upon thousands of people their jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

I cant dont see how this bill will effect our rondents that wee feed to our snakes(I can see ASF going out the window), most rats we feed to snakes is the common Brown Rat which is a native species to all of North America. And as for ASF, there is a good reason why there outlawed in some states as it is, there an aggressive feed and breeding species So I cant even imagine are snakes or even reptiles starving to death, even taking into consideration that all reptile food is for the most part common Mammalia which is found in America itself.

---

First of all it doesn't say "in the Pet trade" it says at all. This means even those non-native animals that are bred or imported of food, and since the bill doesn't specify alive or processed it means you can even buy crab, shrimp, tuna.

Because if its illegal to own non native snakes then there is no reason to breed rats for a feeder business. So business' close people loose income, houses get foreclosed.

On top of that think of the people that supply the bedding for the feeder company they now take a huge hit every month. This means that they can't afford to pay a couple of employees. So avian family suffer

Think of Purina all of the different types of food they make if now they can't make anything but for native animals in the pet trade.

Think of places like Petsmart and Petco that will have to totally do away with buying supply's for exotics.

Vets that specialize in reptiles or exotics like Scott Stahl no longer have a job.

People need to wake up and understand that if 1/3 of the animals on that list are banned this country will never recover. Pet ownership and the ability or possess and breed or transport nonnative animals is a huge portion of the American economy.

It just so happens that Pets are the part of our economy that have suffered the least in this recession.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

First of all it doesn't say "in the Pet trade" it says at all. This means even those non-native animals that are bred or imported of food, and since the bill doesn't specify alive or processed it means you can even buy crab, shrimp, tuna.

Because if its illegal to own non native snakes then there is no reason to breed rats for a feeder business. So business' close people loose income, houses get foreclosed.

On top of that think of the people that supply the bedding for the feeder company they now take a huge hit every month. This means that they can't afford to pay a couple of employees. So avian family suffer

Think of Purina all of the different types of food they make if now they can't make anything but for native animals in the pet trade.

Think of places like Petsmart and Petco that will have to totally do away with buying supply's for exotics.

Vets that specialize in reptiles or exotics like Scott Stahl no longer have a job.

People need to wake up and understand that if 1/3 of the animals on that list are banned this country will never recover. Pet ownership and the ability or possess and breed or transport nonnative animals is a huge portion of the American economy.

It just so happens that Pets are the part of our economy that have suffered the least in this recession.

---

Exactly Ed, well said, passing of this bill would have a ripple effect beyond belief, as you have described. You would think that with all of the problems in the country right now, there would be more pressing issues at hand. These representatives just have no idea how big of an industry this is, and its up to us to show them, and show them how much more this economy will suffer with a passing of H.R. 669.

Quote:

---

I love my reptiles and my trade as much as anyone eles here, but i would be more then happy to give it all up to help see them thrive in the wild. I think H.R. 669 will help do so.

---

So you think that they are not thriving in the wild?

Even if it was the case this bill would affect the trade of animals in this country and this country alone and while I could see implementing some limitations on imports (I do not believe in ban in any form or shape) additionally there will always be the European pet trade and the food trade in Asia it will not affect those.

The main animals that are really targeted (though for the gov is is always easier to ban everything rather than research and think :rolleyes:) are thriving in the wild already.

Some special interests group are pushing this law and they could not care less about protecting those animals they just want to see them gone and this would only be a start.

This will mean no more snake shows, no more out of state trade, no more breeding. This will mean THE END of this industry and hobby all together simple as that whether you believe it or not.

One they stop this industry what make you think they will stop there and not make you surrender your animals to have them put down.

I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS BILL or any part of it as it stands

And I also think you need to re-read that bill and understand it fully because you do not get the BIG PICTURE all you see for now is YOU and your ability to keep your 1 or 2 pet snakes.

This cant be for reals?

OP, you're welcome to let them come take your reptiles, but most of us are going to fight this because we know what the real agenda is. As if there aren't WAY bigger problems our lawmakers could be focusing on right now.

They'll get my pets like they'll get my guns. When they pry them from my cold, dead hands.

I have one last rebuttal then i have start working on my pape. For every nonnative species that has been imported and and unresponsibly released in the wild, most in which have effected the native species to a great degree almost to and in some cases to extinction. All these species that have been lost or are currently losing, you all approve of this?

O yea and this lol

This bill is in the first step in the legislative process. Introduced bills and resolutions first go to committees that deliberate, investigate, and revise them before they go to general debate. The majority of bills and resolutions never make it out of committee. [Last Updated: Mar 7, 2009 11:06AM]

no need to worry

Dck,

I completely understand and sympathize with your consideration of the native fauna of the United States ... as a nature lover, conservationist, and land owner, I have the same concerns and I'm certainly willing to do whatever is necessary to effectively protect the native wildlife and habitats of the United States. Unfortunately, HR 669 does nothing other than forward the agenda of animal rights groups who's charter is to end all pet owner ship by the year 2050 ... that's right ... cats, dogs, horses, goldfish ... all of them. HR 669 is their first step towards that goal hidden in bureaucratic gibberish and wrapped in a blanket of lies about how it will protect the environment.

Closing our eyes and hoping that it will go away because it's "only in sub committee" will be our unfortunate legacy when HR 669 makes it to the floor of the house for an up or down vote.

Educate yourself ... read PIJACs testimony from last years version of 669 and see the real truth ... then take action ... contact your representatives in congress and let them know how much your pet hamsters, parakeets, tropical fish, reptiles, and amphibians mean to you and how you and people you know will be affected if this legislation passes. Then keep an eye out for information coming from PIJAC in the days ahead about what you can do to have a real influence on the hearing on April 23rd.

Now is the time to WAKE UP and GET INVOLVED!

PIJAC Testimony on HR 6631 (the previous version of HR 669) - http://www.pijac.org/files/public/HR..._Testimony.pdf

-adam

this is the dumbest post i have seen on here!
or this is the biggest troll to the forum.
this will ban everything and removes states rights! also includes removing the freedom to those who keep any animal in this country you will not be able to move out of state with your animals nor can you sell them if you need to do so?
so that would leave 1 option to put them down.
also note if you look at the cosponsors they are all members of the sname committee that has been dupped into supporting this rubbish. and also note that guam is not a state!
this is beyond committee and will be in the house the 23rd! if this passes i hope cats and dogs are on the ban list then lets see you cry!

o just wait for a few hours and you will see the result of all this, i will be posting it in a few hours :gj:

THANK YOU ALL WHO TOOK THE TIME TO REPLY TO THIS
Means a lot really

like i said i will show you why in few hours mabey around 9pm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

o just wait for a few hours and you will see the result of all this, i will be posting it in a few hours :gj:

THANK YOU ALL WHO TOOK THE TIME TO REPLY TO THIS
Means a lot really

like i said i will show you why in few hours mabey around 9pm

---

I think Wil smelled tuna in the wrong thread.

:colbert:

It'll probably be a "I wanted to bring this to everyone's attention, so I pretended to be for the bill".
Or it's just a troll who likes seeing honest folks worked up over a real threat to our hobby, our pets, and in some cases our livelihood and economy.

Bottom line: More government is not the solution. Never has been, never will be. I am the ultimate authority inside my home and about what I keep within its walls. Not the government. The government answers to me, and us the taxpayers and voters. NOT the other way around. This bill is simply another way by which people in power think they can control others and I bet you a shiny new quarter theres some money somewhere in this for a select few people.

I will do what I can to fight this bill as I ahve done with many others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

THANK YOU ALL WHO TOOK THE TIME TO REPLY TO THIS

like i said i will show you why in few hours mabey around 9pm

---

If this was research of ANY sort then you engaged in unethical practices by not informing your *participants* of their involvement.

Bruce

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

After reading the details of this bill, In my opion this is a most of a good thing. This bill wont ban reptiles has a whole, but limt the Importation of nonnative wildlife. Sec 6>a>6 states that any nonative wildlife that is already owned before H.R. 669 may pass is ok to have. There is a part of the bill that makes me uncomfortable and angry and thats Sec 6>a>4 which will ban the breeding of nonnative wildlife.

I also believe this bill will help rid the pet trade of those out there taking advantage of nonnative wildlife and the collectors who are just trying to make a $$$$.

I love my reptiles and my trade as much as anyone eles here, but i would be more then happy to give it all up to help see them thrive in the wild. I think H.R. 669 will help do so.:snake:

With all this being said, I would like to discuss and hear your opions. Iam not tring to start any DRAMA here so please keep the slaming to a limt:)

---

Just because your willing to "give it all up" doesn't mean people who make their entire living breeding snakes and feeders are. Judging by the grammar and spelling in this post you may want to reread the bill. ( I had too three or four times) I'm by no means a spelling and punctuation pro, but my girlfriend is an english major and she wasn't happy with your proof reading or your position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by womensitdown

I'm by no means a spelling and punctuation pro, but my girlfriend is an english major and she wasn't happy with your proof reading or your position.

---

I think that is why many of us see either a troll, a PETA friend, or a first year paper in the works...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

I think that is why many of us see either a troll, a PETA friend, or a first year paper in the works...

---

I love PETA.

Oh wait. PETA can't love me back.

:tears:

PETA :rofl::rofl::rofl: Cant help but to laugh when someone mentions that horrible organization.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

I think that is why many of us see either a troll, a PETA friend, or a first year paper in the works...

---

Ah ha I see, but it was still a little rough. I can't stand it when words are used in the wrong context. lol

Are you serious? I hope he's not serious.

You can't have it both ways, You can't agree with part of the bill then not agree with the other part of the bill.

No offense man, but that's seriously the dumbest thing i've heard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by womensitdown

Ah ha I see, but it was still a little rough. I can't stand it when words are used in the wrong context. lol

---

When trying to make an intelligient and coherent post, then punctuation and spelling is paramount.

Which I why I avoid those posts at all costs. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by panthercz

Rats are NOT native to North America, nor most of the world in which they inhabit.

The fact you think HR669 is "most of a good thing" is frightening. It could cost our already fragile economy billions and cost thousands upon thousands of people their jobs.

---

the bill defines native as a species that originated in the US or has established wild populations caused by humans. the bill will list brown rats as native

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dragoon

the bill defines native as a species that originated in the US or has established wild populations caused by humans. the bill will list brown rats as native

---

brown rats are not a species.
i guess then it cannot include burmese pythons or retics because both are supposedly living and breeding in FL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Dck,

I completely understand and sympathize with your consideration of the native fauna of the United States ... as a nature lover, conservationist, and land owner, I have the same concerns and I'm certainly willing to do whatever is necessary to effectively protect the native wildlife and habitats of the United States. Unfortunately, HR 669 does nothing other than forward the agenda of animal rights groups who's charter is to end all pet owner ship by the year 2050 ... that's right ... cats, dogs, horses, goldfish ... all of them. HR 669 is their first step towards that goal hidden in bureaucratic gibberish and wrapped in a blanket of lies about how it will protect the environment.
Now is the time to WAKE UP and GET INVOLVED!
-adam

---

Sorry to edit in on some of Adams quote, and I hope he doesn't personally mind, But I couldn't put it better myself.....
The time is here and now, please don't wait for it to hit your "backyard"!
It's happening everywhere, ecspecially here in CT after the Chimpanzee attack. Things are happening quickly. Now is the time to be involved.
Thanks
Rusty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

I have one last rebuttal then i have start working on my pape. For every nonnative species that has been imported and and unresponsibly released in the wild, most in which have effected the native species to a great degree almost to and in some cases to extinction. All these species that have been lost or are currently losing, you all approve of this?

---

Of course we don't approve of people releasing non-native animals into the wild. Just try making a post here about being tired of your BP and wanting to release it out in the park behind your house and see what kind of response you would get.

I'm not in favor of folks running over other people in their cars or driving around drunk either...but does that mean the governemnt should legislate the removal of all cars as a form of transportation???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

O yea and this lol

This bill is in the first step in the legislative process. Introduced bills and resolutions first go to committees that deliberate, investigate, and revise them before they go to general debate. The majority of bills and resolutions never make it out of committee. [Last Updated: Mar 7, 2009 11:06AM]

no need to worry

---

Yes, the bill is definitely in the early stages. But statements/attitudes like this are what allow bad bills to get passed in the first place. "Meh, it's just in committee...surely it will die there." "Bah...the Senate approved it, but it still has to pass in the House...surely it will fail there." "Hmmmm...well, surely the President will veto it because he's a smart man and it's obvious this is a ridiculous bill." :rolleyes:

The time to kill it is NOW before it gets any farther. Every step outside of committee is a step closer to disaster. Last year's bill was killed IN COMMITTEE because of people like us and PIJAC that stood up and made a difference when it counted.

oh yes and peta isnt guilty of tossing puppies off of bridges!
and the hss who doesnt even view reptiles as a pet nor take them in or adopt them out.

these groups really are a joke and i wouldnt give them 1 red cent i dont care if the world bank was my personall bank account

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

When trying to make an intelligient and coherent post, then punctuation and spelling is paramount.

Which I why I avoid those posts at all costs. :)

---

Yeah, I think I'm gonna fallow in your footsteps Bruce. http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/i.../th_fing02.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

I have one last rebuttal then i have start working on my pape. For every nonnative species that has been imported and and unresponsibly released in the wild, most in which have effected the native species to a great degree almost to and in some cases to extinction. All these species that have been lost or are currently losing, you all approve of this?

---

I'm confused, what nonnative species was released into the wild that caused an extinction in our native animals? :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I'm confused, what nonnative species was released into the wild that caused an extinction in our native animals? :confused:

---

Hominidae Homo sapiens

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nixer

Hominidae Homo sapiens

---

I was going to say something about that, but thought it might create a bigger rise in people. lol. Nicely said :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neal

Are you serious? I hope he's not serious.

You can't have it both ways, You can't agree with part of the bill then not agree with the other part of the bill.

No offense man, but that's seriously the dumbest thing i've heard.

---

PIJAC POSITION -- PIJAC supports the underlying intent of HR 669 to establish a risk-based process in order
to prevent the introduction of potentially invasive species. It has been clear for quite some time that steps are
needed to enhance and improve the current listing process for species shown to be injurious under the Lacey Act.
In addition to much needed appropriations to fund staff and other ancillary support aids, the Lacey Act needs to
be modernized to make the process more timely, efficient and transparent. However, HR 669 falls far short of
accomplishing this objective.


Not my words Neal. Not the OP's either.

I know some clown is going to jump on this and claim I support the Bill. Let me make it clear - I do not.

I do however, agree with PIJAC's position regarding additional steps being needed to improve the current listing process for potentially injurious species.

I see you're point, but I just don't believe somebody can half support the bill, thats all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

...One they stop this industry what make you think they will stop there and not make you surrender your animals to have them put down.

I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS BILL or any part of it as it stands

And I also think you need to re-read that bill and understand it fully because you do not get the BIG PICTURE all you see for now is YOU and your ability to keep your 1 or 2 pet snakes.

---

This is the first thought I had! What makes any one think that they will allow you to keep your pets once they are banned? They will force you to put your animals down! And the same people that are supporting this bill (the people pushing for it, not the gov officials) are supposed to be the same ones protecting our animals! People look and see who is pushing for this and think 'oh it is such and such group' they must be right they are always pushing to help the animals!

The problem with closed minded thinking is the people do not look at the big picture! They just see the little bit they want to and close out the rest!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

I have one last rebuttal then i have start working on my pape. For every nonnative species that has been imported and and unresponsibly released in the wild, most in which have effected the native species to a great degree almost to and in some cases to extinction. All these species that have been lost or are currently losing, you all approve of this?

O yea and this lol

This bill is in the first step in the legislative process. Introduced bills and resolutions first go to committees that deliberate, investigate, and revise them before they go to general debate. The majority of bills and resolutions never make it out of committee. [Last Updated: Mar 7, 2009 11:06AM]

no need to worry

---

You need to do some more research on what is going on my friend!

If you wait to fight for your rights (or the rights of any one else) they will be removing your rights before you get up and fight!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard

o just wait for a few hours and you will see the result of all this, i will be posting it in a few hours :gj:

THANK YOU ALL WHO TOOK THE TIME TO REPLY TO THIS
Means a lot really

like i said i will show you why in few hours mabey around 9pm

---

I hope you have a good reason for doing this my friend! ;) I truly hope that you do not feel this way.

Mike

It doesn't really matter if the government will NEVER take the animals you have grandfathered in!
You will not be able to trade, breed, sell, or buy EVER AGAIN. That means that within a short period of time(a generation at most) all reptile pets will be gone FOREVER in the US.
No breeding, no importing, no transporting across state lines... if you want a gecko? Too bad.
Your neice wants to have a tortoise? Nope. Defeating the bill NOW is the answer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

It doesn't really matter if the government will NEVER take the animals you have grandfathered in!
You will not be able to trade, breed, sell, or buy EVER AGAIN. That means that within a short period of time(a generation at most) all reptile pets will be gone FOREVER in the US.
No breeding, no importing, no transporting across state lines... if you want a gecko? Too bad.
Your neice wants to have a tortoise? Nope. Defeating the bill NOW is the answer.

---

nor could you cross state lines with one of your own animals

IMO this bill and most others will never pass. Especially in todays economy. There are people in the US who make millions and millions in this trade. It simply will not pass. Almost all these bills that go thru are time stuffers... and do nothing more then give the congress something to drink their coffee over.

call me a fool... but I see nothing to worry about,.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

IMO this bill and most others will never pass. Especially in todays economy. There are people in the US who make millions and millions in this trade. It simply will not pass. Almost all these bills that go thru are time stuffers... and do nothing more then give the congress something to drink their coffee over.

call me a fool... but I see nothing to worry about,.

---

And I think you are really under estimating the people pushing that bill!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

And I think you are really under estimating the people pushing that bill!

---

Do we have a # of persons who are for this bill to pass? Fortunately less then 1% of the USA would be that number.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

Do we have a # of persons who are for this bill to pass? Fortunately less then 1% of the USA would be that number.

---

Please share where you are getting your statistics? I would like links.

Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

Do we have a # of persons who are for this bill to pass? Fortunately less then 1% of the USA would be that number.

---

btw...its the lobbyist pushing the bill, not a group consisting of "less then 1% of the USA."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

Do we have a # of persons who are for this bill to pass? Fortunately less then 1% of the USA would be that number.

---

The problem with this thinking is that it's not something that the 99% of us get to decide on.

It's a handful of very powerful lobbyist and their congressional cohorts. They convince some congressmen that it's a fine idea. Those congressmen make deals with other congressman...."You support me on this, and I'll support you on that"....and then there's the congressmen who just don't bother to think things through at all and vote whatever seems easiest or in their best interest at that moment in time.

We can't reach the hard-core close-minded people intent on controlling every minute detail of our lives. But we CAN reach those who might be tempted to make a deal over what seems like a "minor" issue in their eyes and those who might not think it through without a little help. As well as the multitude that probably really do care about us little ol' constituants, but wouldn't know how this bill would affect us until we make our voices heard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

Do we have a # of persons who are for this bill to pass? Fortunately less then 1% of the USA would be that number.

---

That's exactly the attitude that the anti-pet activists are counting on ... they whisper in your representatives ears at high dollar lunches that 99% of the country doesn't even care how they vote ... the 1% (if you're willing to believe it is actually that low) in favor of HR669 are more vocal, more active, more organized, and better funded than all the people that would be opposed to the bill if they even knew it existed combined.

No one is going to stand up and fight for the rights of the silent.

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

IMO this bill and most others will never pass. Especially in todays economy. There are people in the US who make millions and millions in this trade. It simply will not pass. Almost all these bills that go thru are time stuffers... and do nothing more then give the congress something to drink their coffee over.

call me a fool... but I see nothing to worry about,.

---

Okay then. Fool.

sorry guys.. but even Congressmen who don't live normal everyday working lives like most of us know that there are thousands of pet stores in this country. Most of them are not stupid enough to make hundreds of thousands MORE people unemployed. This bill passes. all pet stores are gone. I understand the seriousness of this bill.. I just know that it wont pass, so I'm not losing sleep over it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

I just know that it wont pass, so I'm not losing sleep over it.

---

That's fine. I'm not losing much sleep over it either and am fairly confident that it won't pass either. HOWever...my confidence comes from the fact that people like us are working hard to get the word out and make our voices heard. I don't have such faith in our government to think that rational thought would prevail when the public stays silent.