living together?

idk why, but i have seen a lot of people housing carpets together(well, more than other snakes). is this ok or not?

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Originally Posted by camb

idk why, but i have seen a lot of people housing carpets together(well, more than other snakes). is this ok or not?

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The majority of folks on this forum will tell you no.

do you think other wise?

it's completely fine, as long as the enclosure is large enough and you make accomdations for feeding time.

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Originally Posted by camb

do you think other wise?

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You know, I'm not really sure.

I have never kept two or more snakes in the same enclosure, but I'm not planning on it either.

However, since carpets climb a lot and don't really use their hides all that much, I believe it could be a lot more forgiving with carpets. They would not have to struggle as much for the best spot in the cage.

What I would do is get a very large cage, with two basking areas and lots of climbing space.

i wasn't planning on it, i have just scene it a lot recently and i thought they might be an exception.

I've also seen people housing multiple carpets together, and wondered about it.

I own a carpet and would only put two in the same cage if I were trying to breed them. Most folks who deal with carpet Pythons would say the same. I have never seen a breeder or experienced owner say they would house them together at moreliapythons.

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Originally Posted by ohyeahnow

Most folks who deal with carpet Pythons would say the same. I have never seen a breeder or experienced owner say they would house them together at moreliapythons.

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that's because it's not discussed there.

i can name 3 BIG breeders off the top off my head that keep at least a few pairs together year round with great success. in fact, pretty much all the australian pythons that i'm famliar with can be kept together. one big example is Antaresia... it's commonplace to keep these guys in pairs or trios.

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Originally Posted by Colin Vestrand

that's because it's not discussed there.

i can name 3 BIG breeders off the top off my head that keep at least a few pairs together year round with great success. in fact, pretty much all the australian pythons that i'm famliar with can be kept together. one big example is Antaresia... it's commonplace to keep these guys in pairs or trios.

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Then I guess all the threads I read on this subject I was seeing things LOL.

Carpets do have a high male combat drive so be Leary of that. I've housed 3 male babies together before and fed out of the tank with no problem but once they are mature I would not recommend it. 2 females and a male with adequate room for all should be fine. I believe in one snake per cage unless breeding except when it's your only option.

I have a pair I keep together year round. No problems.

When feeding...I remove one and feed the one left in the cage. Once finished eating and settled and return the removed animal. Wait a couple of days to allow the food to begin to digest and I remove the animal and feed the other now. easy.

....no only if I could get a lock outta that pair. :P

Keep them separated. Snakes are solitary creatures and they can and will fight for the best basking spots, cool spots, etc.

There are ZERO benefits to housing multiple snakes together.

If an excuse is to 'save space' then I suggest the person gets out of the hobby, since carpets are not exactly "little" snakes.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Keep them separated. Snakes are solitary creatures and they can and will fight for the best basking spots, cool spots, etc.

There are ZERO benefits to housing multiple snakes together.

If an excuse is to 'save space' then I suggest the person gets out of the hobby, since carpets are not exactly "little" snakes.

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...get a big cage. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

...get a big cage. :gj:

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uh, no. What benefits are there for housing two snakes together?

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

uh, no. What benefits are there for housing two snakes together?

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...breeding. It's difficult for snakes to breed in two separate cages.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

...breeding. It's difficult for snakes to breed in two separate cages.

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Cool, and during breeding season that's perfectly acceptable. And when it's not breeding season, there are no benefits to housing them together.

Thanks for proving my point.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Cool, and during breeding season that's perfectly acceptable. And when it's not breeding season, there are no benefits to housing them together.

Thanks for proving my point.

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What benefit do you get from two snakes (morelia) housed separately?

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

What benefit do you get from two snakes (morelia) housed separately?

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They don't fight for dominance, they aren't stressed out. They show no aggression to me, they eat perfectly for me.

They shed perfectly. It's easier to maintain humidity and temperature gradients in two individual habitats than just one.

So can you tell me what benefits you get from housing two NON breeding snakes together? You've completely avoided answering it.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

They don't fight for dominance, they aren't stressed out. They show no aggression to me, they eat perfectly for me.

They shed perfectly. It's easier to maintain humidity and temperature gradients in two individual habitats than just one.

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...never had a problem with any of that.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

...never had a problem with any of that.

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I bet.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

What benefit do you get from two snakes (morelia) housed separately?

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

They don't fight for dominance, they aren't stressed out. They show no aggression to me, they eat perfectly for me.

They shed perfectly. It's easier to maintain humidity and temperature gradients in two individual habitats than just one.

So can you tell me what benefits you get from housing two NON breeding snakes together? You've completely avoided answering it.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

...never had a problem with any of that.

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I did answer you. With proper husbandry (ie large enough enclosure...seperating during feeding) one can house pairs 1.1 morelia together in the same enclosure with no problems.

I have never encountered any of those problems with my carpet you mentioned. I have produced viable clutches this way also....snakes need to be healthy to produce viable clutches.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

I did answer you. With proper husbandry (ie large enough enclosure...seperating during feeding) one can house pairs 1.1 morelia together in the same enclosure with no problems.

I have never encountered any of those problems with my carpet you mentioned. I have produced viable clutches this way also....snakes need to be healthy to produce viable clutches.

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No. I'm asking you what BENEFITS there are to housing them together. Why do you do it? Why don't you separate them when they aren't breeding?

Why dont you go to http://www.moreliapythons.com/ and ask about how others house their morelia...think you may be surprised :)

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

No. I'm asking you what BENEFITS there are to housing them together. Why do you do it? Why don't you separate them when they aren't breeding?

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Again...I get the same 'benefits' as you do when you house the separately.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Again...I get the same 'benefits' as you do when you house the separately.

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lol, okay.

Guys, come on, who really cares?

Joshua obviously has happy snakes, 'cause they're eating, breeding, and whatnot.
I don't know him personally, but I've read lots of his posts and I think he's pretty knowledgeable on Carpets.

You, Whiffa, have your own preferences. If you think your carpets will be stressed out, will stop eating, and will fight for dominance, just don't keep them together.

I personally wouldn't house them together, but OBVIOUSLY Joshua has good results. I'm sure he has the right temp gradients, and plenty of space for both of them.

Whiffa, you are barking up the wrong trees bro... joshua knows his business, as does everyone else that has no problems keeping carpets together.

as for the benefits... just take a look at herpetoculture and what it is. it's our window into a snake's world. keeping them together is a whole other aspect of husbandry and there's a lot to be gained by watching the interaction of two animals that live together year round. THAT is the benefit. besides that, if you have a display cage going, there's nothing more impressive that TWO or THREE carpets hanging out together.

obviously you have to make accomodations, nobody is disputing that... all we're saying is that you CAN keep a pair or trio together with no problems, and obvious benefits.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Cool, and during breeding season that's perfectly acceptable. And when it's not breeding season, there are no benefits to housing them together.

Thanks for proving my point.

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your point holds no water here, in my opinion, because it has been proven that when you aren't disrupting snakes by shifting them around during breeding season, they often breed readily with little cycling. thus, housing them together year round means they may be more willing to breed, if not just as willing as if they're housed separately.

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Originally Posted by Colin Vestrand

Whiffa, you are barking up the wrong trees bro... joshua knows his business, as does everyone else that has no problems keeping carpets together.

as for the benefits... just take a look at herpetoculture and what it is. it's our window into a snake's world. keeping them together is a whole other aspect of husbandry and there's a lot to be gained by watching the interaction of two animals that live together year round. THAT is the benefit. besides that, if you have a display cage going, there's nothing more impressive that TWO or THREE carpets hanging out together.

obviously you have to make accomodations, nobody is disputing that... all we're saying is that you CAN keep a pair or trio together with no problems, and obvious benefits.

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who are you to tell me I DON'T know anything? lol

in the wild two snakes will not be seen in close proximity to each other unless they're breeding. It's our job to attempt to recreate a natural setting for them. plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Colin Vestrand

your point holds no water here, in my opinion, because it has been proven that when you aren't disrupting snakes by shifting them around during breeding season, they often breed readily with little cycling. thus, housing them together year round means they may be more willing to breed, if not just as willing as if they're housed separately.

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Breeding snakes every year is extremely unhealthy and a great way to shorten the life span of a breeder. But okay, you CLEARLY know everything.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

who are you to tell me I DON'T know anything

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TRUST me, Colin KNOWS his stuff REALLY well. How else would he be able to produce those super hot carpets?

Don't get your panties in a wad because someone doesn't back you up. Word yourself appropriately, present your argument/opinion and debate. Do not call someone out over something so silly. Post matter here, you have 18 and most are incoherent. Colin has my helpful post with a lot of information to support them.

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Originally Posted by DavidG

Don't get your panties in a wad because someone doesn't back you up. Word yourself appropriately, present your argument/opinion and debate. Do not call someone out over something so silly. Post matter here, you have 18 and most are incoherent. Colin has my helpful post with a lot of information to support them.

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And don't attempt to call ME out and say I have my "panties in a wad"

Unless you're going to actually contribute facts to the thread, pipe down. ;)

OH - I also want to throw out the fact that many snake diseases, infections, and parasites are VERY easy to pass on to each other. Housing them together is a fantastic way for snakes who possibly have IBD to pass it on. And mites. And respiratory infections. :)

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

OH - I also want to throw out the fact that many snake diseases, infections, and parasites are VERY easy to pass on to each other. Housing them together is a fantastic way for snakes who possibly have IBD to pass it on. And mites. And respiratory infections. :)

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It's called quarantine. Snakes do not 'just get' parasite out of the blue. They have to be introduced by another specimen or kept in poor conditions.

With proper husbandry...there should be no worries of RI.




Whiffa....if you have shotty husbandry techniques...I can see where you are coming from. But under the correct settings....there are no problems. You just have to know what you are doing. ;)

To Jerhart, how big a cage do you keep your pairs or trios in?

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

It's called quarantine. Snakes do not 'just get' parasite out of the blue. They have to be introduced by another specimen or kept in poor conditions.

With proper husbandry...there should be no worries of RI.




Whiffa....if you have shotty husbandry techniques...I can see where you are coming from. But under the correct settings....there are no problems. You just have to know what you are doing. ;)

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I agree. But not everyone knows to pre-treat any bedding, hides, leaves, etc that they throw in their habitat for the snakes, and mites love to lay eggs in any and everything.

Also, people who buy rats from pet stores are probably going to introduce mites into an enclosure. I made this mistake when I did the pre-killed method and had an outbbreak.

Not everyone believes in frozen thawed. but thanks for attempting to insult me. Much appreciated. ;)

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

who are you to tell me I DON'T know anything? lol

in the wild two snakes will not be seen in close proximity to each other unless they're breeding. It's our job to attempt to recreate a natural setting for them. plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Breeding snakes every year is extremely unhealthy and a great way to shorten the life span of a breeder. But okay, you CLEARLY know everything.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

And don't attempt to call ME out and say I have my "panties in a wad"

Unless you're going to actually contribute facts to the thread, pipe down. ;)

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

OH - I also want to throw out the fact that many snake diseases, infections, and parasites are VERY easy to pass on to each other. Housing them together is a fantastic way for snakes who possibly have IBD to pass it on. And mites. And respiratory infections. :)

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For these hard facts you seem to be providing, do you care to share with us your sources? Personal experiences?

You are swimming against the current here, and really doing nothing but saying that other keepers CANT because YOU think they shouldnt be.

You've brought some points up, but beyond the speculation of most of your points, which ones can be backed up by hard facts?

And also, you can try, but to tell someone that they cannot contribute to a thread isn't going to work. ;)

I haven't seen anyone tell YOU that you don't know anything, however they have questioned where you get off telling other keepers that THEY don't know anything. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

To Jerhart, how big a cage do you keep your pairs or trios in?

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I just have one pair I keep together. They are in an AP T20. 72 x 24 x 24"

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Also, people who buy rats from pet stores are probably going to introduce mites into an enclosure. I made this mistake when I did the pre-killed method and had an outbbreak.

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First little point, and I'm not insulting you:

Snakes mites are NOT the same as rat mites. Snake mites and rat mites are species specific, and also two different types of mites. Although it is possible to have some transfer for a short period of time, snake mites cannot live on rats.

The snake mite is Ophionyssus natricis. A common rat mite is Liponyssus bacot (sometimes classified Ophionyssus bacot)

If you're insinuating that snake mites can be picked up while at the pet store on your person or bedding, this is possible, however normal QT is an easy way to avoid that possibility of infection.

And on that point, would it not be easier to treat one enclosure over two?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

First little point, and I'm not insulting you:

Snakes mites are NOT the same as rat mites. Snake mites and rat mites are species specific, and also two different types of mites. Although it is possible to have some transfer for a short period of time, snake mites cannot live on rats.

The snake mite is Ophionyssus natricis. A common rat mite is Liponyssus bacot (sometimes classified Ophionyssus bacot)

If you're insinuating that snake mites can be picked up while at the pet store on your person or bedding, this is possible, however normal QT is an easy way to avoid that possibility of infection.

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Mites will travel and lay eggs on anything and everything. When the nests are introduced into a snake enclosure the mites will hatch on the host. I've had it happen to me before.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

I just have one pair I keep together. They are in an AP T20. 72 x 24 x 24"

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If I were to keep some together I'd do the same. :D

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

If I were to keep some together I'd do the same. :D

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AP all the way! :gj:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

For these hard facts you seem to be providing, do you care to share with us your sources? Personal experiences?

You are swimming against the current here, and really doing nothing but saying that other keepers CANT because YOU think they shouldnt be.

You've brought some points up, but beyond the speculation of most of your points, which ones can be backed up by hard facts?

And also, you can try, but to tell someone that they cannot contribute to a thread isn't going to work. ;)

I haven't seen anyone tell YOU that you don't know anything, however they have questioned where you get off telling other keepers that THEY don't know anything. :rolleyes:

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Telling me that I'm arguing with some high and mighty breeder is self explanatory, IMO. And read up on yearly breeding. See how healthy it is for a snake, lol.

Personal experience also. I kept two red tail males together because I had a HUGE enclosure for them. Had two warm sides, two cool sides. Hide logs, plenty of cypress mulch for them to burrow under if they wanted. Multiple water dishes. It was BEAUTIFUL.

Neither showed any signs of aggression towards me previous to them co-habitating. They refused food. They would shed in tons of little pieces, and I was pretty ridiculous about the humidity and temps. They would also strike at me, hiss at me, and just be plain old MEAN. I separated them and they are both eating every 12 days (my feeding schedule) and they're actually healthier loooking.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

AP all the way! :gj:

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Amen.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Mites will travel and lay eggs on anything and everything. When the nests are introduced into a snake enclosure the mites will hatch on the host. I've had it happen to me before.

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Again with these "facts"... Where have you read that snake mites lay eggs on everything? And to lead us to believe you mean that the snake mites are laying eggs on a live rodent??

Snake mites are nocturnal, and generally lay eggs in cracks and crevices on the enclosure, and generally do not live on the snakes except to feed.

They were more likely brought in on your clothing if you handled infected snakes, bedding, enclosures at the pet store, since there is simply no reason for a snake mite to seek out a rat or mouse.

The tank was about 8 feet long. It literally took up an entire wall of my room. both red tails were about 4 feet at the time. And they would lay on top of one another and when you separated them, they would both go back to the same spot and lay on top of each other. It was absurd.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Again with these "facts"... Where have you read that snake mites lay eggs on everything? And to lead us to believe you mean that the snake mites are laying eggs on a live rodent??

Snake mites are nocturnal, and generally lay eggs in cracks and crevices on the enclosure, and generally do not live on the snakes except to feed.

They were more likely brought in on your clothing if you handled infected snakes, bedding, enclosures at the pet store, since there is simply no reason for a snake mite to seek out a rat or mouse.

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They could possibly have been living on the cardboard box I brought the rats home in. But I had rats and a box from a petstore. I touched my purse, the rats, the box, and drove home. After that, I switched to f/t and never had an issue again.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Telling me that I'm arguing with some high and mighty breeder is self explanatory, IMO. And read up on yearly breeding. See how healthy it is for a snake, lol.

Personal experience also. I kept two red tail males together because I had a HUGE enclosure for them. Had two warm sides, two cool sides. Hide logs, plenty of cypress mulch for them to burrow under if they wanted. Multiple water dishes. It was BEAUTIFUL.

Neither showed any signs of aggression towards me previous to them co-habitating. They refused food. They would shed in tons of little pieces, and I was pretty ridiculous about the humidity and temps. They would also strike at me, hiss at me, and just be plain old MEAN. I separated them and they are both eating every 12 days (my feeding schedule) and they're actually healthier loooking.

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Can you bring this source for yearly breeding into this convo? I would love to read up on that myself, since not all sources are created equal.

So you will gladly admit that you have not had that same experience with carpets then? Can you also admit that perhaps what didn't work for you, can work for someone else?