Large Orders Of Ball Pythons

hey, i have heard that there are some breeders who buy large quantities of ball pythons straight from africa they are shipped in "bags" and there are 10 to a bag i have also heard of ordering crates which consist of 100 bags(1000 bps) now i was just wondering if anyone knows who to contact or if there is anyone in here who i can order a few bags from? any help would be great, thanks for your time and happy breeding season!!

I seriously doubt anyone here would sell you a "bag" of snakes. The mass imported African Ball Pythons are usually unhealthy and full of disease. The people that sell snakes here (for the most part) love the animals and are not going to sell a bago'snakes for the sole purpose of money.

I think Neil Golli who is a member here imports CHs every year. You may want to contact him; although the easiest thing would be for you to find someone in Canada so that you wouldn't have to deal with the CITES paperwork.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sebrina

I seriously doubt anyone here would sell you a "bag" of snakes. The mass imported African Ball Pythons are usually unhealthy and full of disease. The people that sell snakes here (for the most part) love the animals and are not going to sell a bago'snakes for the sole purpose of money.

---

Buying a CH animal is just like buying any other animal, you just need to be aware of the risks associated with it and be informed about the person you are buying from.

I am

COMLETELY
100%
TOTALLY

AGAINST

the mass importation of ANY animal.

I am not against keeping snakes, but importing thousands of animals from the wild just so people can keep them as pets or breed them is just wrong.

Reponsible keepers want to take the best care of their snakes, and reponsible keepers should not deplete the natural population of the animals they love.

In the spring time there are large orders of c.h ball pythons that come into the county as babies, generally before their first shed.

As long as the animals are set up right and taken care of once they arrive in the U.S / Canada in your case they do great. They are not the disease ridden crap that some people think they are.

We buy anywhere from 700-2000 c.h balls a year, and they are shipped 8-10 per bag in wooden crates that generally house between 160-240 snakes per crate. As long as the babies are soaked to rehydrate when they arrive they will do great. In 07' we got 1300 in on a order and all but 15 were perfect and fed within a few weeks, and about half of the other 15 started with a little help.

If you look at the classifieds in the spring you will see plenty of dealers selling bags of babies.

Hope this helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sebrina

I seriously doubt anyone here would sell you a "bag" of snakes. The mass imported African Ball Pythons are usually unhealthy and full of disease. The people that sell snakes here (for the most part) love the animals and are not going to sell a bago'snakes for the sole purpose of money.

---

lol way to make it sound bad, yes there are some health issues but if you quarantine them properly and take the precautions needed then you'll have a better chance of having healthy snakes, also most of the newer morphs you have been seeing around come from WC BP's and i never said anything about buying them and selling them to make money i was interested in getting a bunch to breed in my new facility i would never sell a WC BP unless it has been in my possesion for a few years and is 100% healthy not to mention the customer was 100% aware and fine knowing it was from the wild, i never got into ball pythons to make money its a hobby and i do it for the love of the ball pythons not to make a few bucks i have a full-time job and thats what i depend on for money, i just have a few friends who love BP's as much as i do and we enjoy our hobby and the time we spend with the snakes, but thank you for your post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I am

COMLETELY
100%
TOTALLY

AGAINST

the mass importation of ANY animal.

I am not against keeping snakes, but importing thousands of animals from the wild just so people can keep them as pets or breed them is just wrong.

Reponsible keepers want to take the best care of their snakes, and reponsible keepers should not deplete the natural population of the animals they love.

---

I didn't wanna be rude, but thats what I was hinting at!

I don't want to be rude and I don't want to start a fight or anything, sorry if it seems like it.

I just believe that the wild population is much more important than the population we keep as pets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I don't want to be rude and I don't want to start a fight or anything, sorry if it seems like it.

I just believe that the wild population is much more important than the population we keep as pets.

---

thats fine but i made this post to find someone selling wholesale BP's i didnt say how does everyone feel about importing/exporting, thats just your opinion and thats fine but most of those nice morphs you see in captivity came from snakes in the wild you might even own snakes whos parents were WC your not going to take them back or get rid of them are you? no that would be silly, thanks for your time

If they didn't farm the babies or export the adults, they would be sold to the skin trade or the meat market.

Ghana is very conservative of their ball python populations and the numbers are holding up well even with the pet trade/meat market collection.

If these animals were not being looked at as a valuable resource for the pet trade by the trappers in Africa then they would be selling them for other uses.

That said there is still not enough of a c.b population to cover the demand of the pet trade. There is a reason pet-co has Bill sitting on 21000 c.h babies until the next sale in March.

I think a lot of people dont see the big picture of the reptile industry, and the sheer numbers of animals needed to fill the demand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Python Guru

thats fine but i made this post to find someone selling wholesale BP's i didnt say how does everyone feel about importing/exporting, thats just your opinion and thats fine but most of those nice morphs you see in captivity came from snakes in the wild you might even own snakes whos parents were WC your not going to take them back or get rid of them are you? no that would be silly, thanks for your time

---

Okay, sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Python Guru

thats fine but i made this post to find someone selling wholesale BP's i didnt say how does everyone feel about importing/exporting, thats just your opinion and thats fine but most of those nice morphs you see in captivity came from snakes in the wild you might even own snakes whos parents were WC your not going to take them back or get rid of them are you? no that would be silly, thanks for your time

---

nice post! they obviously didnt migrate here like the US fish and wildlife survey would like to think.

i will say this much every large breeder in this country has bought imports, captive hatched, and gravid imports at one time or another and many still do.

if this is what your after you need to find someone in canada. that does these if not then you would have to do cites paperwork which is a pain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I am

COMLETELY
100%
TOTALLY

AGAINST

the mass importation of ANY animal.

I am not against keeping snakes, but importing thousands of animals from the wild just so people can keep them as pets or breed them is just wrong.

---

Then please immediately report to your local reptile shop and give back your ball pythons.... because the fact is, ALL of your ball pythons, or their ancestors, were the direct result of what you are "completely against"

mikey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Then please immediately report to your local reptile shop and give back your ball pythons.... because the fact is, ALL of your ball pythons, or their ancestors, were the direct result of what you are "completely against"

mikey

---

Mikey, I think he just bit his tongue on that, darlin'. ^_^ We all make mistakes.

I personally think you should talk to someone from Canadia(I love my spelling!) and/or breeders you're familiar with. They might have the info you need.

I am not educated in the wild ball python levels. I am only educated about breeding with in the U.S. and I have a long way to go at that.

I do not really agree with WC ball pythons, but on that same note I think it is necessary to the hobby.

If it is a choice between becoming boots/dinner or some ones pet/breeder, of course I would choose the latter.

When I got my first BP it came from Petsmart. I was not happy that is was a CH much less WC, I took him back.

As I am getting more and more into the hobby I am all the more tempted to buy a WC gravid. I am still not to the point that is what I want to do, but it has crossed my mind a few times in the past weeks.

It will be some time before I buy a WC but I am sure the day will come.

Thanks for listening
Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Then please immediately report to your local reptile shop and give back your ball pythons.... because the fact is, ALL of your ball pythons, or their ancestors, were the direct result of what you are "completely against"

mikey

---

I actually took the BP from a lady who couldn't take care of it anymore (or didn't want to), and she said the snake was not wild caught.

That's all I know about it.

I know the snakes I own had (great)(grand)parents that were wild caught, but all I'm saying is that the importation of these HUGE amounts of BPs should be limited. I'll admit, I'm not an economist or pet trade expert, but I think that thousands of wild caught snakes coming in every year is quite unnecessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I actually took the BP from a lady who couldn't take care of it anymore (or didn't want to), and she said the snake was not wild caught.

That's all I know about it.

I know the snakes I own had (great)(grand)parents that were wild caught, but all I'm saying is that the importation of these HUGE amounts of BPs should be limited. I'll admit, I'm not an economist or pet trade expert, but I think that thousands of wild caught snakes coming in every year is quite unnecessary.

---

it is limited! what do you think CITES is about. see also http://www.cites.org/

Let me rephrase.

Limit it MORE. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Let me rephrase.

Limit it MORE. ;)

---

per cites export from Benin
60,000 farmed
1000 wild-taken

per cites export from Ghana
7 000 live, wild-taken
50 000 live, ranched
200 live, captive-bred

also see this http://www.cites.org/common/quotas/2...Quotas2008.pdf

The numbers of animals that go into the the pet trade are staggering.
In the spring the U.S has about 50,000 c.h balls come in within a few week period, and come this time of year they are almost all gone. We have stores and jobbers calling all the time looking for normal baby balls and we cant come up with the numbers they are looking for....

That said the numbers that are imported each year are getting smaller and smaller 3 years ago there were 80-100k coming in each year.

Last year the importer I bought mine from brought in just under 15000 babies this year he got 3500. This year the importer I bought mine from brought in about 5000 3 years ago he brought in between 35-50k a year.

When Pet-co has 990 stores nation wide and they sell say an average of 30-40 ball pythons a year you are looking at 30-40 k just to pet co.

Not to mention all the mom and pop stores, wholesalers, and show vendors that sell c.h and w.c balls every year.

The demand for c.h, w.c and gravids will always be there as people will always want to try them. W.C balls can do just as well as c.b as long as they are taken care of properly....

Stopping imports is not the answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nixer

per cites export from Benin
60,000 farmed
1000 wild-taken

per cites export from Ghana
7 000 live, wild-taken
50 000 live, ranched
200 live, captive-bred

---

I know some of you guys are all pro-export, but don't these numbers sound slightly high?

Benin+Ghana= 8,000 (!!!) wild-taken snakes. I think we can all assume the 110,000 farmed/ranched BPs are not getting the best of care, to put lightly.

If you all love these animals so much, why support a system like this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I know some of you guys are all pro-export, but don't these numbers sound slightly high?

Benin+Ghana= 8,000 (!!!) wild-taken snakes. I think we can all assume the 110,000 farmed/ranched BPs are not getting the best of care, to put lightly.

If you all love these animals so much, why support a system like this?

---

thats taken from 2 countries to the rest of the world!
ive never been to a farm, but those eggs that are collected and hatched then sent here aka captive hatched


im not pro-export but i dont think they are high. if you dont like it then stop buying anything at petstores or anyplace that deals with any imports period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nixer

thats taken from 2 countries to the rest of the world!
ive never been to a farm, but those eggs that are collected and hatched then sent here aka captive hatched


im not pro-export but i dont think they are high. if you dont like it then stop buying anything at petstores or anyplace that deals with any imports period.

---

I've never bought anything at a pet store and I buy only from responsible breeders.

I already said I didn't want to hijack the thread. However, I will reply to any posts related to what I've said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I know some of you guys are all pro-export, but don't these numbers sound slightly high?

Benin+Ghana= 8,000 (!!!) wild-taken snakes. I think we can all assume the 110,000 farmed/ranched BPs are not getting the best of care, to put lightly.

If you all love these animals so much, why support a system like this?

---

For one, those are the numbers for export for the world not just the U.S
Second that is what is allowed, not what is actually taken, the demand is not as high now so less animals make it onto the market.

Everyone seems to think that 50k animals going to the pet trade is going to damage the wild so bad, but what about the 46,000 blood pythons that are skinned each year, and the 437,500 retics that CITES allowed for skins in 2002 alone.

There are tons of reptiles being slaughtered for the meat and skin trade each year legally and illegally, so ball pythons being exported in manageable numbers for the pet trade should not be #1 on everyone's "hit" list when 8-10million red-ear sliders are being exported for meat, along with millions of pounds of other turtles....

Just something to think about.

I don't have anything against wild caught. I don't think I am ready to take care of a large group shipped to me in one bag yet, but I do have one CH male that I got from J&J and he definately rocks. :gj: Granted he was already established and a proven breeder. While he is what most would call a banded, I have yet to see a banded that looks anything quite like him! May be this year or next we may try 10 or 20 captive hatched and see how it works out. I think it would be a lot of fun opening up a baggy of snakes and seeing if anything interesting is inside. Then even if nothing pops out as interesting how do you know if they are not het for something interesting and how would you go about playing with that. All that makes it interesting even if the odds of getting something is worse than hitting the lottery. Oh, wait! Isn't that was Michael Cole calls it? :banana:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jnjreptiles

For one, those are the numbers for export for the world not just the U.S
Second that is what is allowed, not what is actually taken, the demand is not as high now so less animals make it onto the market.

Everyone seems to think that 50k animals going to the pet trade is going to damage the wild so bad, but what about the 46,000 blood pythons that are skinned each year, and the 437,500 retics that CITES allowed for skins in 2002 alone.

There are tons of reptiles being slaughtered for the meat and skin trade each year legally and illegally, so ball pythons being exported in manageable numbers for the pet trade should not be #1 on everyone's "hit" list when 8-10million red-ear sliders are being exported for meat, along with millions of pounds of other turtles....

Just something to think about.

---

You are completely right. I am against all of this, too, of course.

I only started talking about BPs in particular because this thread is about them and Ball-Pythons.net is probably the place to talk about them.

thinking of all these imports is obviously a debateable topic. i personally lean towards pro import, as said before all our bp's are from imports somewhere in their bloodines, but thinking about all the genes pouring into our passion for morphs is so enticing to think that ONE of these importers is payin attention lol and going to take notice of new and existing patterns and can not only add to our somewhere/somewhat limited gene pool but introduce even more possibilities for our morphs as we discover/introduce more of the vast range of flavors of bp's :)

The wild populations are doing very well. There are studies that have shown the wild populations of ball pythons has gone up from 10-15 years ago. I believe it was theorized that the more farmland is cleared, the more rodents will breed, and the ball python is a predetor on rodents, so they have more territory now.
The amount of imports doesn't seem to affect the wild population, and the imported babies can thrive with proper care, and have not been shown to harbor disease.
Having taken care of most of the myths about imported BPs...
You might call up either Neil Golli or Micheal Cole of BallRoomPythonsSouth to ask their advice on getting large amounts shipped into canada. I think both of them do shipping to other countries, but if they can't, they would probably know who to call.

Does it bother any of you that the C.H. and W.C. snakes you get were not getting good care in Africa? Just wondering...:)

Really? They get bad care? The snakes are watered and the CH babies are shipped out in bags before they've ever eaten, where is the "poor care"?
Snakes that are treated poorly generally do not survive to lay eggs, and hatchlings do not survive poor treatment(even when they are CBB in the US!!). Since the majority(95% or more) seem to arrive here quite fine, and start eating and shed... I don't see where your facts are coming from.

When you consider that the estimated Wild population of Ball Pythons in Ghana alone is between 6 and 18 million, and 9-14 million hatch every year, the numbers imported, whilst still large numbers, do not seem in any way ridiculous.

I think the importation of CH Ball pythons is very good for the species, providing jobs to many locals, who see the ball python as a useful animal, rather than an evil ugly creature that they would otherwise actively seek out and kill. It gives them an excuse to protect the snake population in whatever way they can. (Lets not forget poverty is common in these parts of Africa, the importation really does help some people economically).

As long as it's continued in a sustainable way, and we aren't importing a million a year, I think it's good for both us as keepers abroad, local people and the ball python population as a whole.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Does it bother any of you that the C.H. and W.C. snakes you get were not getting good care in Africa? Just wondering...:)

---

when i ordered my ch i got 20 babies with 20 sheds in the bag with them.no mites or ticks none were skinny or dehydrated
as for W.C. snakes if there was a husbandry problem they would only have themselves to blame since they were collected in thier natural habitat


last time when i was in petco their still using those zoomed humidity gauge (which never work) on a bed of aspen(which is dryer then the last time i opened a bag of shredded wheat) a little water and 1-8 snakes competing for one little half log hide. if your lucky they dont have 8k mites on them from the boa the next cage over or the 20 corns the next tank up.

also last time i was at petsmart it was the same except for the balls had a smaller tank and the next cage down had 3 turtles and a water dragon all in the same cage!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Really? They get bad care? The snakes are watered and the CH babies are shipped out in bags before they've ever eaten, where is the "poor care"?
Snakes that are treated poorly generally do not survive to lay eggs, and hatchlings do not survive poor treatment(even when they are CBB in the US!!). Since the majority(95% or more) seem to arrive here quite fine, and start eating and shed... I don't see where your facts are coming from.

---

Yes, really, they get bad care. Lots of these snakes die at their "ranches" and "farms". Do you really think they'd send the sick ones to you? You wouldn't be happy with them and not buy any W.C. or C.H. again.

And a note aside, Why am I getting these aggressive replies? I'm doing as much as I can do keep my posts friendly, so why am I getting this as a result?

In some african viliges the ball python is considered sacred. They would sooner see one kept as a pet than killed. As I have been doing so much reading on this lately. Most if not all of the big names in breeding will import wc gravids, and babies each year to add to the gene pool.
Look at Dogs
Domesticated from the wolf, and then slectively bred to all the different typs we have today. But in this "selection" breeders often run out of unrelated animals so inbreeding takes place, one or two generations seems to work out ok, but when you have no new blood coming in you get many genetic deformitys.

I'm all for bringing in "new blood" just remember in the wild those nice colors and morphs will be prey, and will have no chance at suvival.

In responce to the OP's question kingsnake classifides has a list of importers. Go for it man, and some day I want to get a wc gravid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I am

COMLETELY
100%
TOTALLY

AGAINST

the mass importation of ANY animal.

I am not against keeping snakes, but importing thousands of animals from the wild just so people can keep them as pets or breed them is just wrong.

Reponsible keepers want to take the best care of their snakes, and reponsible keepers should not deplete the natural population of the animals they love.

---

that post looked pretty agressive to me! when the OP asked about getting some ch

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Yes, really, they get bad care. Lots of these snakes die at their "ranches" and "farms". Do you really think they'd send the sick ones to you? You wouldn't be happy with them and not buy any W.C. or C.H. again.

And a note aside, Why am I getting these aggressive replies? I'm doing as much as I can do keep my posts friendly, so why am I getting this as a result?

---

when was the last time you were in africa?did you take a camera? if so i wanna see the pics i like jungle photos
these farms go out and collect gravid females they water and house them till they lay. then they either eat,export, release the females the eggs are hatched and babies collected and shipped out before their first shed. im sure lots of babies dont make it out of the egg or even hatch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Yes, really, they get bad care. Lots of these snakes die at their "ranches" and "farms". Do you really think they'd send the sick ones to you? You wouldn't be happy with them and not buy any W.C. or C.H. again.

And a note aside, Why am I getting these aggressive replies? I'm doing as much as I can do keep my posts friendly, so why am I getting this as a result?

---

I think you may be getting these responses because you are spewing out statistics and whatnot that you have no way to back up.

How many ball pythons do you have???? 1 by your sig........

MAYBE just maybe THATS why we give you that response

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Yes, really, they get bad care. Lots of these snakes die at their "ranches" and "farms". Do you really think they'd send the sick ones to you? You wouldn't be happy with them and not buy any W.C. or C.H. again.

And a note aside, Why am I getting these aggressive replies? I'm doing as much as I can do keep my posts friendly, so why am I getting this as a result?

---

OK bud I am not trying to be rude or argumentative. This belongs no where in this thread. The OP asked about getting a "sak-o-snakes" as you put it. Not weather you liked the fact that he wanted them. You want to argue this then make your own thread.

You are just making yourself look foolish IMO. That is why you are getting the responses you are. Please don't get offended, I just don't think this conversation needs to go on here any longer.

Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Does it bother any of you that the C.H. and W.C. snakes you get were not getting good care in Africa? Just wondering...:)

---

I have a question for you does it bother you more to

A# See a ball python entering the pet trade and get the chance to be bought by a loving owner?

B# See a ball python enter the food chain and end up on the dinner table?

In many areas Ball Pythons are considered a NUISANCE keep that in mind.

Ball Python export is regulated and is not hurting the wild population.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nixer

that post looked pretty agressive to me!.

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This is what I said right after:

I don't want to be rude and I don't want to start a fight or anything, sorry if it seems like it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

I think you may be getting these responses because you are spewing out statistics and whatnot that you have no way to back up.

How many ball pythons do you have???? 1 by your sig........

MAYBE just maybe THATS why we give you that response

---

Wait... hold on... you guys are giving me aggressive replies because I only have ONE BP? Am I reading this right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Wait... hold on... you guys are giving me aggressive replies because I only have ONE BP? Am I reading this right?

---

Not one bit.

If you read my reply you would understand that.



It matters that you have 1bp, yet you spew "knowledge" about them like you own thousands, like youve been to Africa, like youve ever held a CH snake.....

Alright guys.

I sincerely apologize for seeming aggressive in this thread. I should not have stated I am against animal export in large numbers in this particular thread.

My opinions are what they are. I will not change them.

I will stop posting them in this thread as I'm not making anyone happy and I HATE to be in the center of what seems to be a fight.

I loved BP.net because everyone was so friendly to eachother, and I'd love to keep it this way.

I just want to say that I'm very disappointed in everybody's aggressive reactions, and I think that most people on this forum would have handled that in a more polite way.

You guys can keep talking about me like I am an inexperienced idiot with only ONE BP, but just know that I love all my snakes, take the best possible care of them, and I want the best for all animals in this world.

It's not that you have your opinion, it's that you have a OPINION and are stating it like facts. The ball pythons are abused and tons die.. where is your fact to back it up? I've seen the video footage from over there. I've read the scientific statistics from over there. If you have factual proof of the CH farms abusing the snakes and so many of them dying, I want to see the proof. But you haven't shown any.
I don't consider it agressive to question your facts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Yes, really, they get bad care. Lots of these snakes die at their "ranches" and "farms".

---

Actually, that's not true at all. I haven't been myself, but I have some close friends that have made the trip over many times and the setups in West Africa are comparable to what we have here in the US. Like it or not, it's a business and sick or dying snakes means loss of profits, so every effort is made to insure that the animals receive the best care possible.

As far as captive hatched babies that are exported in large numbers out of West Africa, they are bagged shortly after being hatched ... there really isn't any time for them to receive "bad care".

I think that the mistake a lot of people make is believing that there are just a bunch of crazy money grubbing pirates over there running around the woods scooping up as many ball pythons as they can get their hands on in order to make as much money as possible ... the reality is that ball pythons are a protected species that are carefully regulated around the world by the "Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora" or CITES ... it is a group of scientists and conservations from countries all around the world that set quotas on the numbers or protected species that can be exported from any given region based on the health of wild populations. If CITES allows a certain number of ball pythons to be exported from West Africa in a given year you can be assured that it is because that number will have no impact on the wild populations of the species in any way. There are smarter people than you or I making sure that ball pythons in the wild are safe and are being farmed responsibly.

Even though I am a captive breeder and I personally do not profit from the WC/CH ball python trade, I support it ... because in the end, the quotas are a form of population control for the ball python ... the alternative is either burning them to reduce wild populations or sending all of the CH/WC animals currently being exported to the meat trade ... neither of which I find particularly acceptable. As long as the business of exporting ball pythons to the pet trade is thriving, wild ball pythons have the best chance of living great lives.

But, everyone is certainly entitled to their own feelings and opinions and I have nothing but the utmost respect for others who choose to voice those feelings and opinions whether or not they are the same as my own ... free exchanges like this, as long as they remain mature and respectful, only make our hobby stronger by opening each others eyes to all of the views among us.

Hope this helps.

-adam

Well said sir.Thanks Adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Actually, that's not true at all. I haven't been myself, but I have some close friends that have made the trip over many times and the setups in West Africa are comparable to what we have here in the US. Like it or not, it's a business and sick or dying snakes means loss of profits, so every effort is made to insure that the animals receive the best care possible.

As far as captive hatched babies that are exported in large numbers out of West Africa, they are bagged shortly after being hatched ... there really isn't any time for them to receive "bad care".

I think that the mistake a lot of people make is believing that there are just a bunch of crazy money grubbing pirates over there running around the woods scooping up as many ball pythons as they can get their hands on in order to make as much money as possible ... the reality is that ball pythons are a protected species that are carefully regulated around the world by the "Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora" or CITES ... it is a group of scientists and conservations from countries all around the world that set quotas on the numbers or protected species that can be exported from any given region based on the health of wild populations. If CITES allows a certain number of ball pythons to be exported from West Africa in a given year you can be assured that it is because that number will have no impact on the wild populations of the species in any way. There are smarter people than you or I making sure that ball pythons in the wild are safe and are being farmed responsibly.

Even though I am a captive breeder and I personally do not profit from the WC/CH ball python trade, I support it ... because in the end, the quotas are a form of population control for the ball python ... the alternative is either burning them to reduce wild populations or sending all of the CH/WC animals currently being exported to the meat trade ... neither of which I find particularly acceptable. As long as the business of exporting ball pythons to the pet trade is thriving, wild ball pythons have the best chance of living great lives.

But, everyone is certainly entitled to their own feelings and opinions and I have nothing but the utmost respect for others who choose to voice those feelings and opinions whether or not they are the same as my own ... free exchanges like this, as long as they remain mature and respectful, only make our hobby stronger by opening each others eyes to all of the views among us.

Hope this helps.

-adam

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Thanks for this clear explanation and your respect for my opinions!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

pirates over there running around the woods scooping up as many ball pythons as they can get their hands on -adam

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sounds like fun adam when are we going :rofl:

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Originally Posted by nixer

sounds like fun adam when are we going :rofl:

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I wanna go! I'll bring the rum!

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I am

COMLETELY
100%
TOTALLY

AGAINST

the mass importation of ANY animal.

I am not against keeping snakes, but importing thousands of animals from the wild just so people can keep them as pets or breed them is just wrong.

Reponsible keepers want to take the best care of their snakes, and reponsible keepers should not deplete the natural population of the animals they love.

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The fact that someone way back in the day took these animals out of their natural habitat for our viewing pleasure is totally wrong in the first place. Not that I don't 100% completely love my B.P....but now that we have more than enough captive breds available, why pull more wild animals out of where they belong? Seems kind of ridiculous and greedy to me and Ocho...

Josh and Ocho:snake: