Where is the morph market heading?

I wanted to share my opinions on morphs in general, maybe I am not alone with my views :)

I started this hobby about 1 1/2 years ago, and was thrilled to see all the different morphs. I paid about $3500 for my 'collection', and was dreaming about creating great combinations and maybe even something brand new in the future.

However, since then my enthusiasm has vanished a bit. Not about BPs in general, but about this whole morph euphoria. One of the things that fascinated me the most was how special morphs were and how expensive, it was similar to the dream of owning a Ferrari or Porsche GT (yep, I'm a typical male :)). But now the big breeders in the business create all sorts of crazy morphs, triple recessives, quadruple co-doms etc. They all look great, but, do they look & feel special? Not that much to me anymore, I'm afraid. Take these for example: http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...81318&key=2008 ... quadrouple co-dom, Pastel Butter Kingpins. Looks nice, but I think they look similar to other morphs, for example the lesser pearl.

There are about 200 different morphs out there right now (I have a list of 176, and I guess it's a bit incomplete). Sure, the more morphs, the more potential combinations. But who cares really if I produce a pinstripe axantic lesser pied spider enchi in 6 years? Who will pay me $5000 for that snake if there are 500 other morphs out there, of which 10 look similar to mine?

A market in general is all about supply and demand. I am pretty sure that demand hasn't quite reached its peak yet, but supply is getting more and more. I predict that the market will cool by a lot in the next 5 years, and prices will come down in a landslide.

Thoughts? :)

I'll try to keep my reply market related lol. I think you've got a point to a degree. People may not pay you $5000 for something that looks similar to other morphs. But, Lessers go for 600, Mojave's for 300, even though they look *similar*. Let's continue with this example. Butters, Lessers, and Mojaves all look very similar, differing only slightly. But their prices are different. Mojave's at average go for half the price of Lessers. And I can't say the price of a Butter because I haven't really seen too many recently. These morphs all are similar but are easily picked out as to what they are. They are recognizable to be either a Mojo, Lesser, or Butter. But they are still similar.

Spiders and Pinstripes can be compared as well. They look *similar* but with more drastic differences than the above examples. They have strongly differing prices as well. Enchi's, Woma's, Banded's all in my opinion look to be *similar* (but I don't have too sharp an eye for these) Yet they're all at different price ranges. In a couple years, things will be different. Five years ago, weren't there snakes going for $10k each that now are only a couple K's? Prices change, more morphs are produced, many have similarities. It depends on the differences and what's more likeable. Obviously Lesser's must be more likeable because they're double the price of a Mojave.

Now, in my opinion, I personally want to breed and produce morphs because I want these morphs lol. I don't care that if I get a Pastel male sometime along the road to breed with my Spider female, I could make a decent amount of pocket money out of selling Bees. I'd be happy that I can have a Bee in my collection! If I got more than one, I may think about selling one to fund my current collection, but, I may decide I want to keep it, because I made it, and because Bee's are freaking awesooome!

But anyways I wrote alot, these are just my .25cents :D

I think you are correct about the market in a sense. I think that the future of the ball python market is in the combos. I am in the process of selling off all of my normal females, and am only going to be breeding morph to morph. I have also bought into projects with double or triple combo potential. For example, I have a pastel double het ghost pied to breed to a pied possible het ghost. Another, I have a butter het ghost, and a pastel het ghost to breed to my pastel ghost (actually the pastel ghost and the pastel het ghost were locked yesterday.) I don’t think that anyone is going to get rich by breeding a pastel to a few normal females, or even a lesser to a few normal females. Eventually all of the prices will drop, but I think that the combo prices will hold out for a while longer.

I recently got into the herp world and did alot of research after I got my baby normal male 2 weeks after getting him he died of a RI and possible parasite. I was a couple weeks without a herp and started doing my research online of what's out there. Albinos, pieds, pastel, spider, pinstripe and etc. I was looking through breeders websites and found 8 ball pythons and found his VPI Proven Breeder Pastel male. I e-mailed Adam and told him I was interested and decided to buy him. After finding the pastel I found other morphs I was interested bumble bees, killer bees, spinner blasts and the like. So I decided to get a female spider. In a few years I will be able to breed my pastel male to my spider female and make a morph I will truely love. I find new morphs all the time be it here or other sites I know one day I might own that $5,000 animal. Right now I'm starting lil and working my way up. I think some other customers will be like me on their buying of snakes. Maybe not for breeding purposes like I have at a later time but start with a normal or one of the cheaper morphs. There will be people out there that will pay $1k, 5k, 10k and etc for that rare morph. But that expensive side of the herp world is for the selective individuals.

The Ball Python bubble has broke and prices dropped quick. Those thinking they were going to make all the money back for the morphs they bought 2 years ago are experiencing a lot of disappointment. You constantly see people selling off collections.

The idea that was pushed by a lot of breeders of Ball Pythons as an investment was bad investment advice. (Actually most breeders have removed their pages that were giving this advice.) The market was flooded using that advice and supply caught up with demand, then other economic conditions best left in QT occured and the purchase of Ball Pythons have left a lot of peoples mind and we are now dealing with a situation where supply is well above demand.

It is hard to say if something like Ball Pythons will pick back up along with the rest of the economy as a lot of factors can weigh in here.
1. Will large amounts of breeders, mostly smaller ones, get out of the business due to it not being profitable or larger ones may decide to move on to something else that is more profitable? (either of these could have profound affects on supply.)
2. Will people see the difference between line bred animals and selective bred animals when making their purchases and be willing to pay the extra for selective bred morphs? (You get a spider and a pastel and breed them together to make a bee, is the end result worth X dollars when compared to breeder A's bee's? Are breeders going to be willing to sideline the breeding of low quality morphs?)
3. Will any future legislation be brought forward that impacts the herp lovers community and if so what is the affect?
4. Can new demand be created for the product?

A lot of other questions need to be answered as well, but most of them are impossible to answer on your own. You have to wait and see, but if you wait too long you may miss the upswing or you could end up breeding animals who have a monetary value less than the cost of producing them and not be able to sell them resulting in additional mouths to feed.

You gotta be in it for the love first.....market second.

If Im not mistaken the pastel butter kingpin is only 3 morphs (pastel, butter, pinstripe).

If it was 4 it would be a more white because it would be a pastel, butter, pin, and lesser).

while around here locally we have a few ppl like myself that have produced some, but in chicago we have alot more. ive been asked by more than one person what are my directions with projects and such. they do this for a living. i have a career, but im pretty much one of the bigger hobby breeders here. alot of those said ppl have alot of normal females compared to what i have and they keep those because their market isnt very big. some of these same ppl have flamed me for keeping all these expensive females. why because they know that im years ahead of what they would ever be able to produce personally im prepared to keep everything i produce. sure they are nervous. they know that if i want to produce what they want ill be there before they ever get there due to theyre refusal to purchase a female morph. so while most ppl here are producing just base morphs im far ahead of the game by my own actions. the female morphs i have bought over the years are what i wanted to keep so why not get a female im not out for a profit. on the other had they are prone to getting a male morph and breeding to a normal and maybe keep a female after a few years then dump the male. just this last year one of them has produced a super pastel and a bumble bee, while my female bee is breedable now. the point to this is i believe once morphs get really cheap you reach a new market for ppl. alot of ppl are not willing to spend 1k for a snake but they will buy one for a few hundred. do you think my mother would spend hundreds on a snake NO. but she might buy one for maybe 100. when you go to a petstore and see a ball for 100$ they are priced that way because ppl will pay that and not much more now if you have a pastel next to a normal whats going to happen? they will buy the pastel not the normal so hence the price will hold but normals will probally end up being dumped. ive noticed more and more breeders replacing normals with morphs they have held back trying to keep with the times some only keeping what they couldnt sell before its to breeding size.

Marcus, just want to say I'm a BIG fan of OOTP! Happy to hear that you're into snakes too!

-PG

Horrible economy, less disposable income = weeding out folks who are in this for money..... Its a hobby. I hope this makes sense.

How is the Cornsnake market doing after 40 years, its still thriving :)

Playing with ball python genetics is here to stay, not even worried one bit for the market, if you are only in this for the coin, best you invest somewhere else.

Personnaly, I can't wait till balls are only worth a few hundred dollars, it will weed out the greedy who are only in it for the money.

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Originally Posted by juddb

Horrible economy, less disposable income = weeding out folks who are in this for money..... Its a hobby. I hope this makes sense.

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It makes great sense. I "squandered" my entire Christmas fund to get my newest girl. She's so worth it. I told Adam at the expo that I was probably going to call him for a het. hypo girl eventually soon. This is supposed to be a hobby, and people like Adam are great examples of that. It's not just about the money. It's about the enjoyment of the reptiles.

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Originally Posted by the odds god

How is the Cornsnake market doing after 40 years, its still thriving :)

Playing with ball python genetics is here to stay, not even worried one bit for the market, if you are only in this for the coin, best you invest somewhere else.

Personnaly, I can't wait till balls are only worth a few hundred dollars, it will weed out the greedy who are only in it for the money.

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I never said I 'invested'... I'm not doing this for money, but for the love to special and rare animals. My point is that in a general sense, the basic morphs are getting less special and rare because of the big supply and countless combinations. :)

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Originally Posted by Garlascop

Marcus, just want to say I'm a BIG fan of OOTP! Happy to hear that you're into snakes too!

-PG

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Thanks mate! I need to have a couple more hobbies than sitting in front of the PC all day, or I'd go nuts :D

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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I never said I 'invested'... I'm not doing this for money, but for the love to special and rare animals. My point is that in a general sense, the basic morphs are getting less special and rare because of the big supply and countless combinations. :)

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I completely understand you. If people have the morphs to create all the combo's let them, but if a pastel x normal pairing is what you want to do then thats what is special to you. These snakes arent rare anymore but that doesnt mean they arent special.

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Originally Posted by juddb

I completely understand you. If people have the morphs to create all the combo's let them, but if a pastel x normal pairing is what you want to do then thats what is special to you. These snakes arent rare anymore but that doesnt mean they arent special.

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I agree, if someone wants to breed just to breed then more power to them But in my opinion, if people want to breed to make money, then they need to be working towards combos.

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Originally Posted by FIREball

If Im not mistaken the pastel butter kingpin is only 3 morphs (pastel, butter, pinstripe).

If it was 4 it would be a more white because it would be a pastel, butter, pin, and lesser).

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It should be 4... a Kingpin is a Lesser-Pinstripe. So it's Lesser-Pinstripe-Butter-Pastel. And I think it already is pretty white :P ... Three would be just Pastel Kingpin, wouldn't it?

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Originally Posted by juddb

I completely understand you. If people have the morphs to create all the combo's let them, but if a pastel x normal pairing is what you want to do then thats what is special to you. These snakes arent rare anymore but that doesnt mean they arent special.

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Maybe special was the wrong word to express what I meant. So lets just focus on 'rare'. Don't get me wrong, I love my animals, no matter if its the normal or the lesser... :) But my enthusiasm of owning a rare animal has suffered a bit in the past year because of all the crazy morphs and the dropping prices for 'standard' morphs.

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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Maybe special was the wrong word to express what I meant. So lets just focus on 'rare'. Don't get me wrong, I love my animals, no matter if its the normal or the lesser... :) But my enthusiasm of owning a rare animal has suffered a bit in the past year because of all the crazy morphs and the dropping prices for 'standard' morphs.

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I gotcha buddy, maybe its time to bring that motivation back up with the purchase of a champagne:gj:.

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Originally Posted by juddb

I gotcha buddy, maybe its time to bring that motivation back up with the purchase of a champagne:gj:.

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Champagnes have dropped from $10K to $4K in one season. I wonder what they will be next season?

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Champagnes have dropped from $10K to $4K in one season. I wonder what they will be next season?

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Oh wow, i was still under the impression that they were still very high in price, not that 4k isnt.

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Originally Posted by juddb

Oh wow, i was still under the impression that they were still very high in price, not that 4k isnt.

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I was actually surprised at the initial price. I know that they are rare, but they are only a single codom. Anyone can easily buy one male and mass produce them the same year. Think about how many people bought males this season.

I think it's been said above, but I like the fact that prices are going down and weeding out the people just in it for the money. I would also like to see more selective breeding, rather than just throwing any one morph with another. I hate seeing spiders on the market that frankly just don't look good, but are going for the same price as a spider who looks fantastic. Same goes for pastels, I've seen pastels that could almost pass as normals going for as much as pastels that you need sunglasses to look at.

Plus, I'm in it for the hobby. I have a pastel male and a highly yellow normal female that I can't wait to breed in a few years...not to make any money back (pastels will be worth about $50 by then), but to be able to create an animal that I will love and be 100% my own creation (with some help from the snakes of course).

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

I was actually surprised at the initial price. I know that they are rare, but they are only a single codom. Anyone can easily buy one male and mass produce them the same year. Think about how many people bought males this season.

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Fantastic point. Whatever happened to the crystal morph??? Correct me if im wrong but it was proven genetic correct?

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Originally Posted by Smith285

I would also like to see more selective breeding, rather than just throwing any one morph with another. I hate seeing spiders on the market that frankly just don't look good, but are going for the same price as a spider who looks fantastic.

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:gj: agreed! Then again, the different lines have that covered, for example graziani,ruppell pastel etc.etc... But i know what you mean about morph's nowadays looking soso, the fantastic looking animal should be the breeder....
Im smellin what your steppin in.....

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Originally Posted by juddb

Fantastic point. Whatever happened to the crystal morph??? Correct me if im wrong but it was proven genetic correct?

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The crystal is a combo morph - it's a mojave x "special" female. Only a few people know what the female is. Tom Baker was a smart businessman keeping that under wraps and keeping the crystal value up.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

The crystal is a combo morph - it's a mojave x "special" female. Only a few people know what the female is. Tom Baker was a smart businessman keeping that under wraps and keeping the crystal value up.

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Agreed. The crystals are amazing.

I am in agreement with some folk about this. I personally cannot wait until the supply maxes out and higher end morphs drop drastically in price. I love a lot of base morphs, and a lot of combos not so much. I do like a lot of the combos with only two sets of genes, but that is about as fancy as it gets for me. that my change in time, but I am not dreaming of having a YBxPiedxGhostxlesserxPastelxAxanthic....I just like pieds, and I love normals. So when people are giving those away it will be nice. I would also like to see the small timers in it solely for the money to move on. I was admittedly enamored at the prospect of makeing money at this, though I have wised up a little and realized that will not happen. I may come close to breaking even but that is about it. That said though, that BP's are not my main interest. I find them pretty boring most of the time. I am more interested in breeding colubrids the most, primarily Pituophis, and those generally sell pretty cheap, which I am okay with. But when all is said and done...I will always buy from a hobbyist first and a store second....cause you gotsta have the love baby.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

The crystal is a combo morph - it's a mojave x "special" female. Only a few people know what the female is. Tom Baker was a smart businessman keeping that under wraps and keeping the crystal value up.

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I see. Smart man!

Where is the morph market heading?

Hopefully to cheaper more affordable prices.

I say this because there are some people out there that dont have the funds to own morph beauties.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

The crystal is a combo morph - it's a mojave x "special" female. Only a few people know what the female is. Tom Baker was a smart businessman keeping that under wraps and keeping the crystal value up.

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one of those special males was on ks. i almost bought it but i passed because i dont have the lesser complex animals to use for that project

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Originally Posted by nixer

one of those special males was on ks. i almost bought it but i passed because i dont have the lesser complex animals to use for that project

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who was selling it?

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Originally Posted by juddb

who was selling it?

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Anthony McCain...

He was PRE-selling.. He hasn't even produced it yet.

My personal opinion on the "ball python market" is that it's finally correcting itself. I agree that the people that are in it to get rich off of that one new thing (champagnes, coral glows etc.....) are going to have to seriously re-evaluate what they are doing and who their market is.

I don't think that people like Adam Wysocki will have any problems at all however. He knows his market! He doesn't feel the need to have 20 racks of triple, quad, quintuple gene animals to play around with because he knows that he can always sell simple recessives, hets, single or double gene co-doms and cover his expenses and still have money to live off of.

The market as a whole is going to go down, it's unavoidable. Supply and demand is such that as more people get the animals, especially co-doms which have a first generation turnaround, they are going to produce babies and they are going to try and sell those.

Myself personally, I have what I want. I know which combos i intend to try for and I only need one other morph (cinnamon) to try for some real fun ones. Once I have my basics covered and have at least one breeding season under my belt then I'll start on some more fun and exciting animals like lessers, mojos, champagnes (maybe) and others.

Just my .02.

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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

It should be 4... a Kingpin is a Lesser-Pinstripe. So it's Lesser-Pinstripe-Butter-Pastel. And I think it already is pretty white :P ... Three would be just Pastel Kingpin, wouldn't it?

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That snake is a triple not quad. It's a butter pinstripe pastel and I believe the name was changed after that post because it confused people.

Eric

I personally like the fact that they are producing more complex combos, and creating new morphs. It means a broader selection. And I also really like the fact that prices are dropping because it means that, being in this for the hobby, I can have what I want in my collection :D I may have to wait a few more years so certain things are below $1k, but, essentially, the lower the price, the more probable it is to purchase. Especially with our economy so low at the moment. It will take years for us to bounce back. Within these years, prices will drop, more snakes will be bought, more hobbyists will be happy, more morphs made and combos played with, and things will get on a roll once again.

That's just my dream anyway :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

The crystal is a combo morph - it's a mojave x "special" female. Only a few people know what the female is. Tom Baker was a smart businessman keeping that under wraps and keeping the crystal value up.

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Hi Robin! :) While Tom may still be referring the gene as a "special" -- everyone else has adopted the Crystal name for the base morph. That gene is crossed with other morphs to make Crystal Mojaves, Crystal Spiders, Crystal Albinos, Crystal Pastels, etc...

There are still fewer than 20 Crystals in existence -- only a few crosses and one super have been made. It is still unclear what morphs will look best in combo with the gene:confused::confused::confused: A lot of trial and error:O to come I suspect...;)

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

Hi Robin! :) While Tom may still be referring the gene as a "special" -- everyone else has adopted the Crystal name for the base morph. That gene is crossed with other morphs to make Crystal Mojaves, Crystal Spiders, Crystal Albinos, Crystal Pastels, etc...

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I've found this change from crystal being the combo to being one of the ingredients very confusing but I guess "special" wasn't that great of a name even if we don't know what it looks like. Actually Tom might have started it by calling what appears to be a homozygous special a "super crystal" but that was before it was really proven that mojave and special are alleles.

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Originally Posted by RichardA

You gotta be in it for the love first.....market second.

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AMEN.....brother!
:salute:

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Originally Posted by RichardA

You gotta be in it for the love first.....market second.

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Spot on RichardA. If you have Ball Pythons just to make money, you won't have them long. You have to love BP's first and if you make any money over and above what it costs to accomodate and feed them, that is a bonus.
When I hatched the first Blackeyed Leucistic in 2002, I received genuine offers of up to $250K and a rumoured offer of $500K from Japan. Where is that same snake now? I still have him, because money was not the reason why I started keeping Ball Pythons.
I am not a rich man either who could afford to turn down a price like that, I am a disabled pensioner who struggles to pay the bills incurred with keeping and feeding quite a large number of snakes, but the snakes are my hobby, they need to be cared for and the rodents that go to feed them have to be looked after, fed and cleaned out. That is why I can get out of bed in the morning and endure the pain of looking after my charges.
A few people have made the 'big bucks' from breeding Ball Pythons but they are few and far between - and they were snake lovers first!
Eric Davies

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Originally Posted by Herpquest

Spot on RichardA. If you have Ball Pythons just to make money, you won't have them long. You have to love BP's first and if you make any money over and above what it costs to accomodate and feed them, that is a bonus.
When I hatched the first Blackeyed Leucistic in 2002, I received genuine offers of up to $250K and a rumoured offer of $500K from Japan. Where is that same snake now? I still have him, because money was not the reason why I started keeping Ball Pythons.
I am not a rich man either who could afford to turn down a price like that, I am a disabled pensioner who struggles to pay the bills incurred with keeping and feeding quite a large number of snakes, but the snakes are my hobby, they need to be cared for and the rodents that go to feed them have to be looked after, fed and cleaned out. That is why I can get out of bed in the morning and endure the pain of looking after my charges.
A few people have made the 'big bucks' from breeding Ball Pythons but they are few and far between - and they were snake lovers first!
Eric Davies

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Wow turning down offers like that must have demanded a good amount of self disciplin! :gj:

Buy the Morphs that peak your interest...enjoy your BP's....enjoy the people you meet in the hobby...the rest will take care of it's self.

Power to those who have made it their main source of income regardless of whether they're in it only for the money or for the love of the animals. As long as their animals are well taken care of, honestly represented and customer service is good then business is business.

Having said that, I'm on the "you have to love them first" band wagon as well but only because I know how much work actually goes into taking care of the animals on a daily basis. With a full time day job, it's allot of work coming home and having a "second" job. It would be really hard to do without the "love" and fascination I have for these creatures.

Patience is a virtue... I paid 6k for my mojave. The year after, they were worth 1500. By the time I produced them they were worth 400-450. I only needed to sell 15 to recoup the initial cost of the snake. To me, that is still a good investment. Heating and feeding costs aside, I only need to sell another 8 mojaves at today's prices of 250 to realize a 30% return.

I thought allot about it and I decided to mostly stick with base morphs. This is a second "hobby" income for me and I firmly believe that most people would rather by a spider and a pastel for less money and try to produce their own bumblebees (until bumblebees are selling for spider prices)....which brings me to the future of retail. I think that when bumblebees become cheap enough for pet shops to sell them to the general public they're going to fly off the shelves. People like bright colors...so I might be wrong on the really bright combos, time will tell.

As far as the market crashing? It's all relative to what you want to accomplish. We're almost sold out and have not advertised on the internet at all....

My .02 cents. :-)

Denis
DenJenn Reptiles
www.pythonregius.ca (site not updated in a while)

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Originally Posted by RichardA

You gotta be in it for the love first.....market second.

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AMEN!!!!!:gj:

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Originally Posted by the odds god

How is the Cornsnake market doing after 40 years, its still thriving :)

Playing with ball python genetics is here to stay, not even worried one bit for the market, if you are only in this for the coin, best you invest somewhere else.

Personnaly, I can't wait till balls are only worth a few hundred dollars, it will weed out the greedy who are only in it for the money.

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Exactly how I feel. My dream for this hobby is for it to pay for itself, and nothing more. If I'm able to produce animals which I can perhaps trade for housing, feeders, and more animals, that would be just heaven.

personally I think the "market" is heading away from ball pythons and moving more towards retics, but I dont really care where the market is headed because I just want to breed the morphs that interest me, I would rather buy some cinnamons and wait 2 years and produce my own super cinnie rather than shell out the 3k for one. If I ever produce cinnies I would sell them for half what they are going for at the time. I know people say low balling is going to ruin the hobby but I think its the only way to weed out those who are in it for the money and lower prices to where the average person could afford what they want

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Originally Posted by crsaz

personally I think the "market" is heading away from ball pythons and moving more towards retics

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I've been wondering this lately as well.. I could see the market for SD retics 10-20 years down the road being pretty huge. On top of that, there is the added challenge of trying to get some of the morphs currently only in "full-sized" or dwarf retics crossed into SDs. Many people get turned off of giants, but we're less than a decade into having CB super dwarves, which I am sure will jump in popularity in the coming years as supply begins to increase.

However I don't think that the market is necessarily "heading away" from ball pythons, people who are interested in ball pythons will always be interested in ball pythons(with a few exceptions of course, there are always exceptions). I don't think that the people on this website who keep and breed BPs are just going to say "enough of this, I want to sell all my pets and buy some retics!" In addition, the number of base morphs for BPs is INCREDIBLE and there is no limit to what people can do with selective breeding. Just because $50k+ snakes might become a thing of the past does not mean that the market is dying, in fact I think it's a sure sign of growth of the number of people in the hobby.

I think that retics re becaoming more and more popular everyday, but it will be along time before the retic market surpasses the ball pythons. it is still possible especially with morphs like the orange ghost stripe wich is a dwaf

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http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ava...uct=527&cat=25

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Just relocated to a new house and finally got up and running with the internet and stumbled upon this thread...
My opinion on the market is that it is great... If you like producing morphs or combos for the fun of it, then there is an endless supply of different colors and patterns to work with at very cheap prices and complete breeding projects can be actually achieved without having to remortgage your house. If your in it for money, then you either have to invest a little and plan ahead with combo females and triple combo males to create some crazy rare Balls or produce large numbers of double combos and there bi-products which are single base morphs in even larger numbers. Still getting a couple hundred dollars a snake is decent if you donot have to hold onto it for long periods. A little bit of something for everyone.... And if you love snakes... What could be better?
Eitherway, you have to understand that every year the price is going to come down and put that into your game plan... The days are over of producing a few snakes and making hundreds of thousands of dollars, but that does not mean they are in anyway a bad investment.
As for Crystals, I have advertised a Super Pastel Special, but I believe that Anthony was preselling Special males....
I have personally produced 2.2 Crystals, 0.1 Paradox Crystal, 1.1 Pastel Crystals, 1.0 Super Crystal and 1.0 Pastel Super Crystal... I know that BHB has produced one Crystal male, but has probably produced more since. That is 10 that I know of so I am sure there are a few more.
The debate is up in the air as to wether their is Mojave involved in the Super Crystal, but a few like BHB and TSK have seen them in person and believed it did have Mojave involved. When I talked to BHB at Anaheim Brian said that he was surprised by the Super Crystal and it is possible that since we are relatively early on in the genetics of Balls and we might need to talk to bird or Finch breeders to see of maybe something similar with people that are alot further along with the understanding of genetics... Now personally, I didnt even know people bred Finches :P and it could be very likely that Brian was just screwen with me, but that is what I was told and only breeding will tell!:)
Finally as for the name "Specials", I called them that because they look closer to a normal than anything else... I thought of calling them Bakers because I thought it would be very funny and kinda cool to have "Super Bakers", but an overly serious investor got her wittle feewings involved and did not want that!:D I have never heard of anyone calling a Special a Crystal and it would seem pretty comical to me since the Crystal got its name due to the clearish look they have as babies... I think I have heard of het Crystals, but who knows... Seems odd and funny that everyone is referring to "Specials" as Crystals (yet havent told me) and little old me is holding out sticking strong to the "Special" name! :rofl:
The cool thing is I just had a Pastel Crystal crawl out of the egg on New Years eve and one crawl out today on New Years Day!!!! With maybe some Super Pastel Crystals coming out in the next day or two... Sounds like I accomplished so much more instead of calling them Pastel and Super Pastel "Specials" like they really are!:rolleye2:

As for the retics, I love them, but unless Super Dwarve retics really maintain small sizes I dont see them surpassing Balls... They just get too big!