Another poss YB. - pls vote!

Your opinion please:

http://pics.livejournal.com/en_ki/pic/000ef620/s640x480

http://pics.livejournal.com/en_ki/pic/000ed5gw/s640x480

http://pics.livejournal.com/en_ki/pic/000ecy09/s640x480

I voted no... but I will vote yes and you going out and buying a YB. :)

Normal, buddy!

Just curious, what made you think that was a YB?

As a comparison, here's my boy and what I think of when I think "yellowbelly" - clean belly and clear flames. (note: the sheet in the background is an offwhite and the colors are fairly accurate)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...keupdated3.jpg

mos def norm:cool:

normal

i dont see any flames, blushing on the sides.

What Icygirl said... once you have held a few... they are really are not that hard to spot.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...m/Rashid-1.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...weerashid3.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by icygirl

Just curious, what made you think that was a YB?

As a comparison, here's my boy and what I think of when I think "yellowbelly" - clean belly and clear flames. (note: the sheet in the background is an offwhite and the colors are fairly accurate)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...keupdated3.jpg

---

That's one killer yellowbelly. Nice blushing!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pauletto

That's one killer yellowbelly. Nice blushing!

---

He's my pride and joy - thanks! He came from Joe Compel Reptiles :)

Nope - not a YB. They're so affordable these days - why not just pick one up that you know for sure is one?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by icygirl

Just curious, what made you think that was a YB?

---

Well, here's his dad:

http://www.boaconstrictor.com/produc...y_ball1_lg.jpg

An ivory male owned by mr. Jeremy Stone, from whom he was purchased.

Anyone wanna change their answer? ;)

This wasn't a "gotcha" thread. I honestly wanted to see how many people could pick out a weird one so as to evaluate the results of the other poll using the placebo effect.

Slim, wherever you are, good eye, my friend. Good eye.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

Nope - not a YB. They're so affordable these days - why not just pick one up that you know for sure is one?

---

All set, but thanks for your concern :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Morphie

All set, but thanks for your concern :)

---

lol. thats mad. i for one wont comment on any poss YB's in the future, because i didnt think it was one at all.

i do have a snake very similar who i thought was a YB. nad was told 100% he wasnt. and he looks nothing like my definate male YB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Morphie

Slim, wherever you are, good eye, my friend. Good eye.

---

Morphie, in the intrest of fairness, I actually hit the wrong button when I voted :confused: Sorry.

In my post I refered to your BP as a great looking Normal, so I'm pretty much in the same boat as everyone else:community

Thanks for the kind words though!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slim

Morphie, in the intrest of fairness, I actually hit the wrong button when I voted :confused: Sorry.

In my post I refered to your BP as a great looking Normal, so I'm pretty much in the same boat as everyone else:community

Thanks for the kind words though!

---

lol - fair enough. Thanks for uh... pointing that out.

So do explain. It's a YB because you want it to be one or because it's supposed to be one?

Uh... well I still think it looks nothing like a YB... BUT there is one way to prove once and for all: breed 'em up to another YB and see if you get an ivory ;)

I agree... still don`t think it looks like a YB. And being that you misrepresented it... that`ll be the last of these polls that I partake in. :)

You said a possible YB, when you believed it was a YB. Too me that is a `gotcha` thread and a waste of people`s time and energies.

Bruce

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

I agree... still don`t think it looks like a YB. And being that you misrepresented it... that`ll be the last of these polls that I partake in. :)

You said a possible YB, when you believed it was a YB. Too me that is a `gotcha` thread and a waste of people`s time and energies.

Bruce

---

Bruce im with you and if you look back at any of the op's other polls they don't seem to like what everyone tells them. So I'll be the fire starter Jeremy is a very through guy post up the receipt that says Jeremy sold you a YB. See the only 2 ways to tell me that "normal" BP is a YB is to breed it to a YB and get Ivories or show up that receipt

Looks normal to me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soterios

So do explain. It's a YB because you want it to be one or because it's supposed to be one?

---

It's a yellowbelly because his dad was a super.

Bruce, I'm sorry you feel that way. I felt i needed an information sample that was impossible to get if i told folks that it was a definite YB from the get-go. The snarky "why don't you just buy one" responses made me feel a little crappy -really was that necessary?- and it was a little bit satisfying to share what I knew finally, but only because of those snarky responses (yours was one).

I started the thread with a genuine desire to get some information. I probably wouldn't have shared what i knew at all if I hadn't felt so poorly treated by the responses, but it appeared that people needed to know that i'm not just an idiot going around and buying up all the 'poss morphs' i can find and hoping they're morphs, as some of you seemed to start to think (and act like it was true) after the second thread.

Mr. Stone did not send a receipt (well - at least - if he did I don't have it anymore.) I bought that YB well over a year ago (before it occurred to me that perhaps i should save receipts for animals instead of discarding them). I bought two at the time actually, but one had a problem right before shipping day and Mr. Stone did me the great kindness of shipping a Mojave in place of YB II.

Here're some of our emails for anyone who feels skeptical (my email addy and some other non-pertinent info has been removed to protect the innocent :P ;) ):

Quote:

---

Flag this message
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Add sender to Contacts
To:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com

________________________________________________________________________________

This tracking update has been requested by:

Company Name: Jeremy Stone Reptiles

Name: Jeremy Stone

E-mail: jeremy@boaconstrictor.com

________________________________________________________________________________

Our records indicate that the following shipment has been delivered:

Tracking number: 792375906124
Ship (P/U) date: Jul 11, 2007
Delivery date: Jul 11, 2007 9:49 AM
Sign for by: J.ARRAN
Delivered to: Residence
Service type: FedEx Priority Overnight
Packaging type: Your Packaging
Number of pieces: 1
Weight: 1.00 lb.

Shipper Information Recipient Information
Jeremy Stone Jessica Arrann
Jeremy Stone Reptiles xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Somerville
Lindon MA
UT US
US 02145
84042

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Thank you for your business.

---

Quote:

---

-----Original Message-----
Fromxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com [mailto: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com[/email]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:54 AM
To: jeremy@boaconstrictor.com
Subject: Message about: MOJAVE MALE and WHITE snake PACKAGE.

*************
NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If
you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to
classifieds@pethobbyist.com.
NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive
legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
*************

I am curious and interested in an offer i saw on Kingsnake.com suggesting
you had two male yellowbellies (BP) for $350.

If this is so, please contact me. I live in MA, so i would want to know
more about your terms of sale (do you guarantee a live arrival etc.) and
about their current conditions - how old they are, how much they weigh, any
problems feeding or handling - all of that great stuff.

Also i wouldn't suppose you'd be willing to sell just one?

Thanks! I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Morphie

---

Quote:

---

Jeremy Stone <jeremy@boaconstrictor.com> wrote:
Hello,

Yes, I do have 2 left. I guarantee LIVE arrival, and 100 percent healthy
and feeding. They are about 6 weeks old. I will have to check the weight.
They don't have any feeding or handling problems. They are very nice
animals. I am quite shocked they are going this cheap. These are NOT W/C
yellowbellies. These are actual babies produced from my Ivory Male.

If you want BOTH, I can do it for 300 shipped. If not, I can sell you one
for 175 Shipped.

Let me know if you are still interested. Thanks, Jeremy

---

then there was some discussion about one of them not doing so well and so, like i said, he generously offered to replace it with a Mojave, which I've still got.

More exchanges took place - lots of boring details but then i finally got the snakes:

Quote:

---

From: <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Message about: MOJAVE MALE and WHITE snake PACKAGE.
To: "Jeremy Stone" <jeremy@boaconstrictor.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2007, 8:05 AM

Jeremy -

The snakes arrived safely. Both look like they want to shed, but they're gorgeous! I can't wait until they do.

I am really excited to have a mojave in my collection. Thank you for your generous compensation. I hope very much that the other YB is alright and eating well again soon.

If you would like me to write a review (very positive of course) please let me know.

Sincerely,

Morphie

---

There might be a review for him on the BOI, authored by me. Don't remember if i ever went through with it or not.

Since the majority of you folks think so adamantly that he's not YB, i've written to Mr. Stone and asked him to confirm that he believes he has shipped me a YB. I trust his word, but I just wanted to double check and hear it straight from him that he believes everything about that transaction was what I expected it to be. I can't imagine what mistakes could have been made, but I guess you never know.

Cheers, everyone

I could see it being a yb, but if it was a possible one like said at the start I would have said no. There is always the slim chance that it isn't a yb even from a super, if he had paired the mom to a Codom there could have been the chance it got one of the normals from it. Im not saying its likely, but you never know.

My response was not `snarky` that is how you read it.

I said I voted that you buy one, as obviously you want one. I wanted one, so I bought one. There are one of my favorite morphs and I love their potential.

You said it was not a gotcha thread initially, but now you just admitted it was.

So what gives?

If you had stated, this is a YB, what do you guys think? That would have been upfront and perhaps encouraged some good dialogue.

You misrepresented on purpose, and to me that is not admirable. You wanted opinions on whether it looked like a YB, seems that most people do not think it does.

I do not doubt that if the breeder says it is, and you trust the breeder, that you did indeed get one.

You wanted opinions... well that is what you got. Just perhaps a bit more than you bargained for.

Bruce

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morphie

The snarky "why don't you just buy one" responses made me feel a little crappy -really was that necessary?- and it was a little bit satisfying to share what I knew finally, but only because of those snarky responses (yours was one).

---

My response had no snarkiness intended - it was a genuine suggestion, to your what I originally thought was a genuine inquiry about whether that snake was a YB.

Unfortunately, I cannot control your sensitivity to my response and that of others. I am happy for you, however, that you felt some sense of satisfaction in your reply to me. :)

Shows that not all YB are created equal! ;)

I agree with Bruce...You posted the thread looking like you hoped you had stumbled across a yb and wanted to be reassured it was or wasn't, when you knew what you had the entire time. The remarks were straight forward and honest, "why buy what you Think is a yb hoping for the best when you can get a for sure yb from a breeder pretty reasonable" I understood completely. I'm pretty sure if Mr Stone sold it to you as a yb then it is, but it still don't look like one and in my opinion it is a poor example of the morph. Worst thing I get out of all of this is any possible damage that may be done to Mr Stones reputation. Personally I wont let it affect me but I can't speak for everyone.

I am sorry for being misleading. I agree that's not the best way to go about making friends, and I probably shouldn't have done it - I apologize to anyone who felt mistreated as a result of my doing it.

I was looking for a specific kind of information, which I got, but I felt overwhelmed by the negativity (or what i perceived as such) in the replies. I didn't originally intend to let on what i knew about the snake (because getting what i needed out of this thread didn't require doing so), and I should have kept it that way.

Thanks to everyone who participated in the thread one way or the other. Cross your fingers for me that someday he proves out... or something :P

I just want to say one thing here at the end of this thread. I voted no, why?, because that in no way shape or form fits to what a YB is as a marker.

Mistakes happen, I am not saying that you paid for a normal here, but there is a chance that you did in fact pay for a YB and got a normal. No disrespect to the seller, I am not saying he did it on purpose or anything, mistakes happen sometimes.....just part of life.

I ordered in 6 females one time from pretty big/well known breeder. What I unboxed was 6 males. No harm intended by the guy, just a mix up in packaging. He refunded some of my $ and I kept em. No bad reviews by me or him about it. Just a simple mistake that happened.

I hope you prove it out and it is in fact a weird YB. I just wouldnt hold my breath on it.

After checking Jeremy Stone's site and looking at the YB he keeps in his collection, I'm feeling a bit more comfortable:

http://www.boaconstrictor.com/index.php?productID=145

He looks a lot like my guy, whose dad is supposedly one of those Ivories that was produced by the first YB's that came from The Snake Keeper.

I'm still waiting on a response, but I'm feeling a little less like something went horribly wrong almost 18 months ago and I'm just now learning about it.

redundant

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Butters420

redundant

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sorry?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morphie

It's a yellowbelly because his dad was a super.

---

I have to go with: "that's dumb"

If it doesn't look or quack like a duck....

Seems to me like most (or all) of the morphs are visual (notably one named after something you can only see, being the color yellow). That snake looks nothing like a yellow belly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soterios

I have to go with: "that's dumb"

If it doesn't look or quack like a duck....

Seems to me like most (or all) of the morphs are visual (notably one named after something you can only see, being the color yellow). That snake looks nothing like a yellow belly.

---

Well the bottom line is if the daddy was a Ivory then the snake is a yb, just a poor example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FatBoy

Well the bottom line is if the daddy was a Ivory then the snake is a yb, just a poor example.

---

If that's the case, then the original poster is a teenage drama queen.

Without the knowledge of the father, I don't think anyone would call that thing a YB.

You got us good buddy. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morphie

After checking Jeremy Stone's site and looking at the YB he keeps in his collection, I'm feeling a bit more comfortable:

http://www.boaconstrictor.com/index.php?productID=145

He looks a lot like my guy, whose dad is supposedly one of those Ivories that was produced by the first YB's that came from The Snake Keeper.

I'm still waiting on a response, but I'm feeling a little less like something went horribly wrong almost 18 months ago and I'm just now learning about it.

---

I disagree... the YB pictured there has many more flames, a cleaner belly, and the characteristic speckling along the sides of the belly. I do not see any of these traits clearly in the pics you posted.

BUT as I said before... breed him to prove it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soterios

If that's the case, then the original poster is a teenage drama queen.

Without the knowledge of the father, I don't think anyone would call that thing a YB.

You got us good buddy. :rolleyes:

---

good job reading the thread, "buddy". Please keep your insults to yourself - they are unwelcome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beardedragon

There is always the slim chance that it isn't a yb even from a super, if he had paired the mom to a Codom there could have been the chance it got one of the normals from it. Im not saying its likely, but you never know.

---

Did you mean to say "unless the female was bred to more than one male co-dom, there is the slim chance that this was not from the Ivory"?

That makes sense, since it isn't unheard of to have two fathers from one clutch, I just think how you worded it was a bit quirky. ;)

Quote:

---

I disagree... the YB pictured there has many more flames, a cleaner belly, and the characteristic speckling along the sides of the belly. I do not see any of these traits clearly in the pics you posted.

BUT as I said before... breed him to prove it.

---

I totally agree... when I saw the YB they had on their site they had more flames and you can clearly tell their bellies are yellow...

I mean if it is... it is... but I guess now will teach you a lesson on keeping receipts and records. All of my records have the head/neck markings of my snakes, just in case something like this ever happens...

You got one of the crappiest YB I've ever seen.. I guess you proved your point.. You have a YB that doesn't look like a YB..

Alan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt_11b

You got one of the crappiest YB I've ever seen.. I guess you proved your point.. You have a YB that doesn't look like a YB..

Alan

---

Excuse me? Is there a problem? I'm fine if you don't think you like the way he looks but insulting peoples' animals is just rude.

I don't care if he turns up normal with an extra side of normal: I'm feeding him, and keeping him in my collection - and *I* think he's great.


Please PM your mother's phone number. I would like to speak with her about the kind of manners she taught you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morphie

Excuse me? Is there a problem? I'm fine if you don't think you like the way he looks but insulting peoples' animals is just rude.

I don't care if he turns up normal with an extra side of normal: I'm feeding him, and keeping him in my collection - and *I* think he's great.


Please PM your mother's phone number. I would like to speak with her about the kind of manners she taught you.

---

:8:
cool answer!!!
Do you have a problem, when I copy this in different places?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FastDad

Do you have a problem, when I copy this in different places?

---

Are you asking if you can use that saying? If you are, then by all means please do, if you need it.

thank you :)

Folks - really - the insults are not necessary. Whether you believe the animal to be a YB or not, and don't agree with how she started the poll, there is no need to be so ugly. He's still a pretty animal, and she'll need to get confirmation from Jeremy that he is indeed a YB, since she doesn't have the paperwork. But insulting the animal is pretty low indeed. :(

i dont see why all the harsh comments have come into this, no ball python is "second" string, at the end of the day. i have to pastels from the same clutch, 1 is a really like pastel and the other is really dark, both lemon pastels. its a bit like saying that because one is light and one is dark they're not the same kind of pastel. even though i know they are

if i was sold a "yellowbelly" by jeremy stone and was told it was fathered by an ivory, then i would have no reason what so ever to question it. and id be telling everyone its a YB. never would it cross my mind that it is a normal

until it proves out to be a YB we cant say or do anything about it. i think every ball python is beautiful in its own way. i see no reason why anybody should put the animal down, in which the person has paid perfectly good money for.

one thing i noticed is that "morphie" the owner of the animal has voted on the poll as "i have no idea" why is that if you know its a YB?

I had voted no before I saw the history, and now I can't help but still stand behind the 'no' vote. It has neither the pattern nor the color of a YB. The snake on the breeder's link is obviously a YB, but not the baby posted. I don't believe that stating an opinion that was asked for should be perceived as being insulting. I think maybe there was a mistake. It happens...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nelson77321

one thing i noticed is that "morphie" the owner of the animal has voted on the poll as "i have no idea" why is that if you know its a YB?

---

It was part of the game - playing dumb. I voted at the beginning because I wanted to see poll results right away when opening the thread.

Yes, yes, it was stupid of me, but i've already admitted that about the entire thread (and apologized for it).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aahmn

I had voted no before I saw the history, and now I can't help but still stand behind the 'no' vote. It has neither the pattern nor the color of a YB. The snake on the breeder's link is obviously a YB, but not the baby posted. I don't believe that stating an opinion that was asked for should be perceived as being insulting. I think maybe there was a mistake. It happens...

---

opinions are fine. You don't think it looks like a yellowbelly? by all means say so. Don't pull punches - offer a clean critique and your complete, constructive list of thoughts on the matter.

Filling a critique with "crappy" "ugly", whatever, is just not necessary. It adds nothing to the thread. You can get your point across all the same without being rude with "That doesn't look much like a YB to me..." or something similar - with the added bonus of not making anyone feel abused, or worse, insulting an innocent animal.

I'm not sure I saw any insults coming from you, but there certainly were some nasty responses that couldn't really be justified.

While I don't think it looks like the Yellow Bellies that I've seen, that is indeed a very beautiful Ball Python regardless of its genetics. I really love its dark coloring and how it has pattern all over its belly! I also love that macro shot of its face! Hopefully it proves out to be YB for you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morphie

Your opinion please:

http://pics.livejournal.com/en_ki/pic/000ef620/s640x480

http://pics.livejournal.com/en_ki/pic/000ed5gw/s640x480

http://pics.livejournal.com/en_ki/pic/000ecy09/s640x480

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morphie

opinions are fine. You don't think it looks like a yellowbelly? by all means say so. Don't pull punches - offer a clean critique and your complete, constructive list of thoughts on the matter.

Filling a critique with "crappy" "ugly", whatever, is just not necessary. It adds nothing to the thread. You can get your point across all the same without being rude with "That doesn't look much like a YB to me..." or something similar - with the added bonus of not making anyone feel abused, or worse, insulting an innocent animal.

I'm not sure I saw any insults coming from you, but there certainly were some nasty responses that couldn't really be justified.

---

I hadn't responded before that and I hope my post didn't come off as insulting in any way. I just can't believe that snake is a YB and think something got mixed up somewhere. Yeah, I agree that calling it crappy or ugly isn't necessary. Maybe I just missed or didn't notice the specific posts where those words were used. ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aahmn

Maybe I just missed or didn't notice the specific posts where those words were used. ?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt_11b

You got one of the crappiest YB I've ever seen.. I guess you proved your point.. You have a YB that doesn't look like a YB..

---