Giant ball python

Hi all

I wanted to get on here and introduce myself, and at the same time give you a little tidbit I found recently.
I stumbled upon ball-pythons.net a few weeks ago looking at an animalplastics T10 cage review. I explored a bit and liked the community on this forum. Shortly thereafter I ordered a T10 for my three balls (OK, that sounds a little wrong, but ya know..).

I have been a longtime keeper of snakes of all types. I started my first collection of snakes while growing up in South Africa and kept mostly colubrids/non venomous and semi venomous reptiles. Boa constrictors were rare and expensive items in the country but I managed to obtain two. The female had become gravid but I unfortunately had to sell her before coming to America (she was a beautiful Colombian red tail).

One of the last members of my collection was a ball python which came to me in fairly decent shape but was undoubtedly wild caught. He had some ticks which I removed and he was one of the few balls I have come across which never lost his shyness as he grew older. He used to hide under the newspaper all the time and was a very tricky feeder. Before leaving the country I found him a good home with a local herpetologist and that was the end of snakes for years to come.

Until a year ago.... I purchased a gorgeous baby female ball who is one of the friendliest and outgoing snakes I have had. 6 months later two more balls were donated to me along with a large glass terrarium which I hate but made the best of until I ordered my T10. One of the two was a little underfed and he has had problems with his eyes and skin which I have slowly nursed back to normal (I love cod liver oil for treating the eyes, it really helps). He eats like nothing on earth and has put on a good amount of weight. The larger of those two has a scar just behind his head which looks very much like a rodent bite. He has two yellow spots on his nose which seems to be fairly uncommon among these snakes but I like the look.

Anyway, enough rambling.
I am fortunate to belong to a scientific institute which works with snakes and I know many eminent herpetologists. I was at the herp building the other day when I was discussing ball pythons with the curator and he took me over to a barrel to show me something.
As the lid came off I saw the surface of ethanol and below that a large ball python head. He grabbed the head and started pulling it out the liquid and my eyes almost popped out their sockets!:O

It was the largest specimen I have ever seen of a ball python, and as far as we know the only preserved specimen of this length. There have been reports of ball pythons at 6 feet in length but there is no specimen to confirm this. This one measured at 6'2 inches when alive.

Since I have been really sick with flu for the last couple of weeks I have been unable to go see him, but when I can I will ask if I can take some pictures and post them on here for all you ball fans to see.

Until then, keep em rolling ...

Davevh

I sure hope your not going to keep them together?

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Originally Posted by stangs13

I sure hope your not going to keep them together?

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dude.....its dead


But that is awesome Dave! Do you know where it was acquired?

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Originally Posted by stangs13

I sure hope your not going to keep them together?

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Note sure if you mean the three balls that I have now or the dead specimen.
If you are referring to the three I have now I quarantined the two donated ones for 6 months and kept a careful eye on them. Then I introduced Hubble to them (my first female) and they have been fine since.
Ball pythons are fine to keep together as long as they are similar sizes and you separate them for feeding.
In fact, the Transvaal snake park in Johannesburg kept four specimens in one cage and they were some of the largest and healthiest balls I had seen.

Pat, dude, I believe he meant Dave's other ball pythons, the LIVE ones. He mentioned that he had only bought one T-10 cage... I believe stangs was wondering if he had purchased the one cage for all his BPs.

And yes, I would love to see pics of the specimen!

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Originally Posted by patthesnakeman

dude.....its dead


But that is awesome Dave! Do you know where it was acquired?

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Not sure offhand but I believe the curator knows. I will find out and post the info when I get the pictures.

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Originally Posted by davevh

Note sure if you mean the three balls that I have now or the dead specimen.
If you are referring to the three I have now I quarantined the two donated ones for 6 months and kept a careful eye on them. Then I introduced Hubble to them (my first female) and they have been fine since.
Ball pythons are fine to keep together as long as they are similar sizes and you separate them for feeding.

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No, not really. But I'll let others explain.

Is that one of your kids in your avatar? What's with it's eyes?

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Originally Posted by davevh

Ball pythons are fine to keep together as long as they are similar sizes and you separate them for feeding.

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OH NO..... BP should not be house together at all!

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Originally Posted by Lewdogg3

OH NO..... BP should not be house together at all!

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I am curious to know some scientific or observed truth behind that statement? Convince me why?
I say this because I have observed various species in nature that share communes, for example termite mounds. House snakes, pythons and even black mambas in africa have been found in tight quarters. Ever heard of a pit viper ....

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Originally Posted by davevh

I am curious to know some scientific or observed truth behind that statement? Convince me why?

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I would love to but i know there are way more educated people on these forums than i. So i will let them explain to you why it is not a good idea

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Originally Posted by patthesnakeman

dude.....its dead

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:rofl:

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

No, not really. But I'll let others explain.

Is that one of your kids in your avatar? What's with it's eyes?

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Photoshoped eyes to give her that big wet doggy eye look:D

Lol pat, commonsense would say the live ones...:P sooner or later they I'll go off feed, breed early, and perhaps even eat each other, stress out. There are many more reasons, but I am on my iPod and canttype well.

There are many, many threads on this forum that state why it is not healthy for multiple snakes to live in the same enclosure. You can do a search for the reasons... here are a few:

1. If one snake gets sick, they will all get sick. How are you going to be able to tell who got sick first? You won't.

2. Snake are NOT social creatures. They do NOT enjoy each other's company. That cuddling up they're doing in your pic... nuh uh, that's them competing for the best hot spot in that hide. And they ARE competing. One is going to be dominant over the others, is going to get the best hiding spot, the best hot spot, the best cool area... have you noticed them following each other? That's why.

3. You may experience feeding problems. If you haven't you will. Against, the dominance issue.

4. Snakes are incredibly sensitive to stress... putting them in a situation where they have to compete stresses them out. This lowers their immune system and asks for all sorts of troubles.

5. It's not best for your kids, so why would you do it?

Oh, hey, I forgot about the documented cases of cannabilism in BPs... where the dominant snake ate the submissive one.

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I have observed various species in nature that share communes, for example termite mounds.

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Yes and wild and captivity are 2 different things, in captivity when placed in an enclosure they obviously have no choice and nowhere to go.

Housing multiple ball pythons together can lead, stress, going of feed, spreading of diseases, mites, premature breeding, injuries, the inability to tell if one of the individual is impacted, the inability to tell which individual regurgitated if one did.

Cannibalism has also been documented among same size ball pythons.

In other words there are more risks than benefits which is why the majority of Ball Pythons owners will not jeopardized their animals by housing them together.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

There are many, many threads on this forum that state why it is not healthy for multiple snakes to live in the same enclosure. You can do a search for the reasons... here are a few:

1. If one snake gets sick, they will all get sick. How are you going to be able to tell who got sick first? You won't.

2. Snake are NOT social creatures. They do NOT enjoy each other's company. That cuddling up they're doing in your pic... nuh uh, that's them competing for the best hot spot in that hide. And they ARE competing. One is going to be dominant over the others, is going to get the best hiding spot, the best hot spot, the best cool area... have you noticed them following each other? That's why.

3. You may experience feeding problems. If you haven't you will. Against, the dominance issue.

4. Snakes are incredibly sensitive to stress... putting them in a situation where they have to compete stresses them out. This lowers their immune system and asks for all sorts of troubles.

5. It's not best for your kids, so why would you do it?

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I agree with your statements. However, most of those issues are related to keeper care, inadequate monitoring of environment, infrequent feeding (which leads to cannibalism - which occurs with a starved snake or when feeding snakes together). Your statement of dominance is an interesting one - something I have never observed in the dozens of species and hundreds of specimens I have kept.

I know snakes are not thought of as social, thats obvious.
Only snake I ever experienced feeding problems with was the wild caught ball and that is a known problem that is hard to rectify.

I put into practice what I find from practical experience and what works. I have never had a snake die on me, and the only illness I came across was a parasitic worm passed on to my Boa through live feeders (which was an issue because I kept many live feeders and freezing was difficult at that point.)

I appreciate the concern you all have. In researching this issue there is a great divide among those who think you should and should not keep balls together. I do not want to debate. I have seen entire collections wiped out through infection of separately houses snakes, a lot depends on the keeper. I know people are concerned for their animals but I strongly believe some things are dramatized (and dont even get me started on belly heat)

Peace to all:)

I've read the opinions of keeping them seperate, but I've also read of folks that breed harem style where they keep one male to a group of girls for mating season - months at a time.

As long as the cage is big enough and they aren't all piled up in one spot fighting for heat or hides is it that big of a deal?

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Originally Posted by davevh

I am curious to know some scientific or observed truth behind that statement? Convince me why?
I say this because I have observed various species in nature that share communes, for example termite mounds. House snakes, pythons and even black mambas in africa have been found in tight quarters. Ever heard of a pit viper ....

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Forgive me for redirecting to another site, but I think this might be the evidence you seek. Yeah?

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Oh, hey, I forgot about the documented cases of cannabilism in BPs... where the dominant snake ate the submissive one.

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Can you send me the link to that, I am curious to see what the circumstances behind that were?
Why would any animal cannibalize if there is plenty of available food, Certain species are known for cannabilism, I would LOVE to see some primary literature to back that up in BP

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Originally Posted by bsd13

Forgive me for redirecting to another site, but I think this might be the evidence you seek. Yeah?

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Interesting, but the article does not mention how often that snake was fed.

I'm sorry everyone is bashing you when you were just trying tell some nice info.

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Originally Posted by davevh

Interesting, but the article does not mention how often that snake was fed.

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The pictures were published along with an article in reptile magazine I do not remember which year.

Cannibalism among Ball Pythons is stress related not hunger related.

This has been discussed here many times http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ltiple+housing and no one has ever come up with the benefits of housing multiple Ball Pythons together ;)

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Originally Posted by patthesnakeman

I'm sorry everyone is bashing you when you were just trying tell some nice info.

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Hey man, not a problem. Thanks for the concern though
I like to see people trying to help

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Originally Posted by davevh

Interesting, but the article does not mention how often that snake was fed.

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I have no idea, but that doesn't really matter. One has to assume that they were fed "regularly" and appropriately. Either way the article isn't declaring them to be cannibals by nature just showing that the potential is there so people can decide if it is a risk they are willing to take. At least that's my read on it.

Ok, I am only going to comment on this ONE time. Don't be so quick to shoot down someone for keeping 2 balls together. Girls older then juvinile, of equal size can successfully be kept together. They have to be in a large enough enclosure, and have adequite hides. They must also be fed seperately.

That being said, it is more difficult to house them together because it can create issues that you might not have when keeping 1 per tank / tub. One or both of the snakes can stress and go off feed... It can be difficult to keep track of who is / is not pooping.... You should NOT keep males together ever.... and if younger male balls are kept together with younger females it can screw up sexual developement, and obviously cause premature pregnancies.

Where am I getting this info??? You would be surprised.

Ultimately it is up to the individual owner if they can be kept together. I don't think it is a good idea for a beginner to house them together, because they won't pick up on signs of stress as quickly... Also you have to ask yourself... why do you want to keep them together... and do the risks out weigh the benefits?

I recomend you try to find seperate living quaters if you can....

One more thing... even human beings in the right situation can become canabalistic!!!! Does that make as all "man eaters"

For YEARS I had a pet store that specialized in reptiles. The only time we kept ball pythons individually was when we were down to one. They ate. The pooped. They were happy, friendly, well adjusted snakes.

Over the years I've kept them in small groups and as individuals. I've never really seen a difference in the snakes kept either way.

If they're kept properly as far as environment and food availability, I don't think it makes a bit of difference if they're alone or with friends.

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Originally Posted by patthesnakeman

I'm sorry everyone is bashing you when you were just trying tell some nice info.

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No one is bashing anyone. Just handing out info.

"2. Snake are NOT social creatures. They do NOT enjoy each other's company. That cuddling up they're doing in your pic... nuh uh, that's them competing for the best hot spot in that hide. And they ARE competing. One is going to be dominant over the others, is going to get the best hiding spot, the best hot spot, the best cool area... have you noticed them following each other? That's why."

I have concern over this statement. Snakes are ectothermic and require external sources of heat to activate enzymes for elevated digestion and nutrient absorption. This statement indicates that snakes are seeking heat sources at the same time and from the same source implying that they each have exactly the same metabolic process at any given moment and thus need exactly the same amount of body heat at any given moment. I have tested this theory by varying feeding times in snakes, and many keepers have seen the effect when a snake bathes its body in heat for a day or two after feeding.

Snakes in a healthy terrarium should be found locating different spots at different times to regulate their temperature (hence the point of a temperature gradient). I have not noticed my balls following one another, they usually tend to occupy different parts of the graident at any given time.

A slightly larger snake would require a higher temperature to raise its body temperature than a smaller snake and would thus occupy a different area. This is consistent with observation.

I could see following and clumping occurring in a cage where there is a large and sharp temperature gradient (cold ambient temperature with a single hot spot IE under tank heater) but that is a poorly set up cage. Some of the most experienced Herpetologists I have spoken to NEVER use under tank heaters for reasons many have gone into before (and these people keep snakes far more exotic than any intermediate to advanced keeper has dealt with)

Please realize that I do believe that people should, if possible, keep snakes in separate cages. As you mentioned snakes do not have the evolutionary capacity for emotion or socialization. However, I am adept at noticing stress and signs of ill health or problems and I do not believe this will be an issue for me (has worked so far in my 18 years of experience with reptiles).

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Originally Posted by davevh

[B]"

Please realize that I do believe that people should, if possible, keep snakes in separate cages. As you mentioned snakes do not have the evolutionary capacity for emotion or socialization. However, I am adept at noticing stress and signs of ill health or problems and I do not believe this will be an issue for me (has worked so far in my 18 years of experience with reptiles).

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I think this statement is contradicting itself. If people should house their snakes separately, then so should you, correct? Why should everyone else house them separately and not you? Why settle for keeping them together---which is only satisfactory---when it's better for them, being unsocial and competitive, to have their own enclosures?

These are honest questions... I copped a 'tude earlier and I apologize. Bad day at work and I was taking my irritations out on here. :P

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

I think this statement is contradicting itself. If people should house their snakes separately, then so should you, correct? Why should everyone else house them separately and not you? Why settle for keeping them together---which is only satisfactory---when it's better for them, being unsocial and competitive, to have their own enclosures?

These are honest questions... I copped a 'tude earlier and I apologize. Bad day at work and I was taking my irritations out on here. :P

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As a previous user stated, there is no definitive proof that keeping them separate or together has an impact on the general well being of the snakes. If you would be prepared to give me a grant I can set up a research project using the variables discussed so that we could get significant statistical data to settle this once and for all.

A picture here and there of a snake swallowing another snake is not indicative of the whole. Diseases can be airborne from cage to cage, keeper to animal (even washing hands does not always work). Stress is not wholly related to keeping snakes with other snakes. Temperature, snake disposition, keeper handling, and a list that I could keep on with all add up to snake stress.

You may as well apply this argument to people with dogs and cats and any other animal for that matter. Do you agree that people should have to buy a separate house to keep each dog in? Dogs transmit diseases between each other (fleas, ticks, infections), they fight and cause stress to establish a pecking order etc. Cannibalism is seen in mammals, and one or two pictures of a snake is the extreme and very unlikely (if you came to me with hundreds of cases I would separate my snakes tomorrow)

I did not say that everyone had to have a cage but me, that is putting words in my mouth. I simply stated that it is generally a good idea for most people (with less experience) to isolate (and this is the ONLY plus in my opinion) their snakes to determine bowel movement. However, I can diagnose impaction (through palpitation) and this is not an issue. The only snake that had bowel impaction was the one rescue Mir who had dry skin and I believe kept at very low humidity.

I am not at all convinced with the stress argument, that is HIGHLY subjective and has no scientific evidence, only opinion. What is the selective advantage to this dominance that everyone keeps bringing up? Again, give me some facts behind it IE why would they do this, how would thought processes spur them to do this etc

Please do not take any of what I have said personally, being a scientist I need fact and proof, not simply opinion to back up statements. The whole point of science is to prove and disprove

Thanks!

Yeah my only question is what benefit do you or your snakes get from being housed together?

Now cannibalism, sickness, stress, pooping/urating habits are all pretty common issues with housing ball pythons together.

I do not understand what benefit you get from housing them together and acquiring all those risks for what reward?

It boils down to a common sense issue. Do the benefits outway the risks? Absolutely not in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

Yeah my only question is what benefit do you or your snakes get from being housed together?

Now cannibalism, sickness, stress, pooping/urating habits are all pretty common issues with housing ball pythons together.

I do not understand what benefit you get from housing them together and acquiring all those risks for what reward?

It boils down to a common sense issue. Do the benefits outway the risks? Absolutely not in my opinion.

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OK

OK, this thread went way off topic (Hijack :-)).

I posted this as an introduction of myself and the hope for experienced keepers that have old snakes (that may have reached large sizes or old age) to chime in.

So please, if you have a BP snake or know of a specimen larger than six feet please post here. Since snakes grow throughout their lives (and thus get longer) this may also be an opportunity for seeing how old some ball pythons are out there. So age would be relevant.

I have heard wild reports of ball pythons reaching ages between 40 and 60 years but I believe the oldest record was 46 which is incredible (they are the longest living recorded snakes)

I am hopeful to get pics and info on the specimen I mentioned next week.

Thanks, and I hope to hear about those large snakes!

Davevh

The giant ball could also be a locality that gets huge known as sub Sahara balls. they are from the Vaultar (sp?) mountain region of Northern Ghana.

There have been some imported and they are huge, not just size but there body is different like a BCI boa vs. BCC. The heads on them are huge, we bought 3 of them last month from Ian G and at the 3000 gram range there heads were 2x the size of the other monster females we picked up.

Our smallest sub Sahara is 2900 + grams and her head is twice the size of a 3500 gram ghost female we picked up.
They are known for giving huge clutches, 27 eggs was reported in Africa, and I believe pics were sent over too. Ozzyboids had one that gave 18 eggs.

The biggest one I know of was imported by Ian and was 7200 grams (17+ pounds!) and we have heard of 8200 gram ones in Africa, that is probably the giant one the original poster was talking about, was a sub Sahara.

I will see if I can get pics of any of the monsters, or at least get a comparison shot of our 3000-3500 gram subs compared to a 3500 gram reg. ghost.

These are some killer snakes worth looking into, they feed easily and have great potential to breed morphs into, as they are giants not old .

I'm also interested to see the pictures of the giant specimen.

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Originally Posted by davevh

Since snakes grow throughout their lives (and thus get longer)

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I've always wondered if this was really true, or just one of the many reptile myths that float around. I know they grow fastest when young.. but they really do grow as long as they live?

I would really love to see the pictures :)

Also, the idea of "giant" ball pythons entering the market excites me very much.... I'd love a nice big girl/boy.

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Originally Posted by jnjreptiles

The giant ball could also be a locality that gets huge known as sub Sahara balls. they are from the Vaultar (sp?) mountain region of Northern Ghana.

There have been some imported and they are huge, not just size but there body is different like a BCI boa vs. BCC. The heads on them are huge, we bought 3 of them last month from Ian G and at the 3000 gram range there heads were 2x the size of the other monster females we picked up.

Our smallest sub Sahara is 2900 + grams and her head is twice the size of a 3500 gram ghost female we picked up.
They are known for giving huge clutches, 27 eggs was reported in Africa, and I believe pics were sent over too. Ozzyboids had one that gave 18 eggs.

The biggest one I know of was imported by Ian and was 7200 grams (17+ pounds!) and we have heard of 8200 gram ones in Africa, that is probably the giant one the original poster was talking about, was a sub Sahara.

I will see if I can get pics of any of the monsters, or at least get a comparison shot of our 3000-3500 gram subs compared to a 3500 gram reg. ghost.

These are some killer snakes worth looking into, they feed easily and have great potential to breed morphs into, as they are giants not old .

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Very interesting jnjreptiles! Many animals show diversity within the same species based on region. I was speaking with a friend about his Green Tree pythons (he owns 13) and he was explaining the amazing color variations based on locality. For example he was telling me about one of his adults which retains the juvenile yellow coloring and is found in a specific area of new guinea (which I guess makes it a yellow tree python:D). I have also observed differences among common brown house snakes in different regions of south africa.

The specimen I saw at the museum was also heavily bodied, and if memory serves I saw some very large specimens at the Transvaal snake park in my youth (along with the first Anchieta's dwarf python I had seen, a close relative). So it could well be the locality you mentioned favors larger size in this species.

If you can get a hold of any pictures and post them that would be great, along with any details of age, locality found etc.

Thanks!,

Dave

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Originally Posted by Shelby

I'm also interested to see the pictures of the giant specimen.



I've always wondered if this was really true, or just one of the many reptile myths that float around. I know they grow fastest when young.. but they really do grow as long as they live?

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Yes, this is entirely true!
Snake growth is based on the condition known as indeterminate growth. They grow rapidly until maturity and then growth slows down but never quite stops. Plants also exhibit this same phenomenon (hence old trees getting pretty darn large).
This explains why snakes continue ecdysis (keratin skin sloughing) throughout their lives.
Interestingly, many arthropods slough their outer shell but I am unsure if they have indeterminate growth (100 year old giant scorpions anyone?)

This is one of the reasons I have a lot of respect for the giant snakes in nature because they must be very old and is very sad when people kill them.

http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/...comparison.jpg
http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/head_shot.jpg
http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/...mparison_b.jpg
http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/sahara_size.jpg
http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/...w_tepm_gum.jpg

Here are a few quick pics of 2 sub Sahara girls we have. Both are smaller, around 3000 grams but its easy to tell what they are by looking at their heads. The pic of the 2 together is of a 3200 gram sub Sahara and a 3500 gram gravid import, notice the head sizes.

I will try for more pics when we get some more time but these should get the idea acrossed.
Not sure how to post pics, but here they are, sorry for the crappy pics!

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Originally Posted by jnjreptiles

http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/...comparison.jpg
http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/head_shot.jpg
http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/...mparison_b.jpg
http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/sahara_size.jpg
http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/...w_tepm_gum.jpg

Here are a few quick pics of 2 sub Sahara girls we have. Both are smaller, around 3000 grams but its easy to tell what they are by looking at their heads. The pic of the 2 together is of a 3200 gram sub Sahara and a 3500 gram gravid import, notice the head sizes.

I will try for more pics when we get some more time but these should get the idea acrossed.
Not sure how to post pics, but here they are, sorry for the crappy pics!

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So how much do You know about these animals? Sub What? where exactly is that??

We dont know a ton on them but have talked with Ian G about them many times, and that is where we got the info about them.
They are from the Vaulter Mnt. region of Northern Ghana, I will see what else I can find out .
Thanks

well some people obviously don't care about their animals enough.

a rock could fall outta the sky and crush your snakes. not likely and damn you really can't prevent that.

your snakes might get irritated at another snake it is FORCED into close proximity to and decide hey eating this guy might be a good idea. not super likely but you CAN prevent this.

you can choose to listen to people in this community or not.

while alot of these fine people on this site have helped me a ton. and are nice enough to not get true grit on you, i feel the burden on me to give you a bit of the business! i do not wish any harm to your snakes but man your are one sheep that i won't shed a tear for should you be culled from this over populated flock called humanity.

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Originally Posted by Moriar

well some people obviously don't care about their animals enough.

a rock could fall outta the sky and crush your snakes. not likely and damn you really can't prevent that.

your snakes might get irritated at another snake it is FORCED into close proximity to and decide hey eating this guy might be a good idea. not super likely but you CAN prevent this.

you can choose to listen to people in this community or not.

while alot of these fine people on this site have helped me a ton. and are nice enough to not get true grit on you, i feel the burden on me to give you a bit of the business! i do not wish any harm to your snakes but man your are one sheep that i won't shed a tear for should you be culled from this over populated flock called humanity.

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Huh?:weirdface

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Originally Posted by Moriar

well some people obviously don't care about their animals enough.

a rock could fall outta the sky and crush your snakes. not likely and damn you really can't prevent that.

your snakes might get irritated at another snake it is FORCED into close proximity to and decide hey eating this guy might be a good idea. not super likely but you CAN prevent this.

you can choose to listen to people in this community or not.

while alot of these fine people on this site have helped me a ton. and are nice enough to not get true grit on you, i feel the burden on me to give you a bit of the business! i do not wish any harm to your snakes but man your are one sheep that i won't shed a tear for should you be culled from this over populated flock called humanity.

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PM sent
Death wishes show just what a mature and wonderful human being you are

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Originally Posted by davevh

PM sent
Death wishes show just what a mature and wonderful human being you are

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Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
death wish
–noun
1. desire for one's own death or for the death of another.
2. Psychiatry. a suicidal desire, manifested by passivity, withdrawal, and absorption in nihilistic thoughts, that may eventually lead to suicidal behavior.
[Origin: 1910–15]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

what type of human i am is really no concern for you or the admins. i'll have to recheck my Terms of Service to see if saying i wouldn't cry for someone is against the rules.

So anyway, please keep this post in topic ....

errr anyway get pics up of this beast of a royal!

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Originally Posted by Moriar

well some people obviously don't care about their animals enough.

a rock could fall outta the sky and crush your snakes. not likely and damn you really can't prevent that.

your snakes might get irritated at another snake it is FORCED into close proximity to and decide hey eating this guy might be a good idea. not super likely but you CAN prevent this.

you can choose to listen to people in this community or not.

while alot of these fine people on this site have helped me a ton. and are nice enough to not get true grit on you, i feel the burden on me to give you a bit of the business! i do not wish any harm to your snakes but man your are one sheep that i won't shed a tear for should you be culled from this over populated flock called humanity.

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If he were a sheep then he'd be following along and doing what everyone told him to. Further more, what is the point of personal insults? He has taken everyone's feedback into consideration, but believes that 17 (or so) years experience is enough for him to be familiar with his animals and know how to recognize their signs of stress. This isn't the purpose of this thread nor were these comments constructive.

In any case, those girls look wonderful... Quite large as well-and I love large BPs :)

Thank you, a level headed and educated response!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GirDance

If he were a sheep then he'd be following along and doing what everyone told him to. Further more, what is the point of personal insults? He has taken everyone's feedback into consideration, but believes that 17 (or so) years experience is enough for him to be familiar with his animals and know how to recognize their signs of stress. This isn't the purpose of this thread nor were these comments constructive.

In any case, those girls look wonderful... Quite large as well-and I love large BPs :)

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