Crystal ball?

I have heard about this a couple of times (and in referance to a mojave if I remember correctly) but I don't know what it is? What do you breed to make a crystal ball? I've seen pictures, but of course, if you have one to post, I wouldn't mind seeing it again! ^_^

Also, a pewter is a pastel and a cinnamon, right? (or did I completely make that up? :P)

Here's a picture of one:

http://www.kingsnake.com/scr/crystal2.jpg

So far as I understand it...the Crystal Ball is a "designer" morph, meaning it is a combination of at least two different naturally occurring morphs...but the person who created it is not saying which morphs went into it.

And you are correct about the pewter. :)

The crystal is the product of a mojave and a "secret" female. He is yet to show pics of what the female looks like.

:w00t: At least this time I hadn't just completely forgotten something ^_^ He just hasn't said yet.

Is cinnamon resessive or co-dom?

Co-dom.

There's gotta be a lesser in that crystal somewhere. very nice.

That's what I was thinking....If I didn't know that a lesser and a mojo made a BEL, I would guess that's what the crystal ball is. Very pretty either way. ^_^

So *in theory* a pewter is only one breeding away...That's not too bad... Is anyone working with pewters? Like, is there a super pastel cinnamon?

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Originally Posted by tweets_4611

That's what I was thinking....If I didn't know that a lesser and a mojo made a BEL, I would guess that's what the crystal ball is. Very pretty either way. ^_^

So *in theory* a pewter is only one breeding away...That's not too bad... Is anyone working with pewters? Like, is there a super pastel cinnamon?

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A super pastel cinny is a silver streak.

Sorry, but no lesser in the crystal.

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There's gotta be a lesser in that crystal somewhere. very nice.

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Tom Bakers Crystal is a combination morph using a Mojave and a 'special' female. It doesn't have any Lesser in it. HOWEVER, BHB has also created a morph that looks like the crystal by using a lesser, but to me it looks lighter in shade with less color to it. Personally I think the 'special' gene is a seperate mutation that will modify the looks of the Lesser/mojave/phantom complex of mutations, much like Ralphs 'lesser siblings' seem to do. I would love to see what the 'special' mutation does with a phantom.

Mark

Wow I had some interesting conclusions of my own when it came to the feamle that made the crystal ball. My guess can be the mojave that the mojave was mixed with a ghost then into an axanthic. Wow I really wish I can be the second to prove that out

Looks like maybe a mojave and a platty daddy to me?

more beautiful pics of what Im gonna uncover one day :D

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...e21/644629.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...e21/644630.jpg

Oh wow...so it's already at breeding age and noone knows what it is....hmm.... Is it a boy or a girl? Have they hatched out any of it's babies yet?

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

Looks like maybe a mojave and a platty daddy to me?

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One would first have to figure out how Tom got a Platty Daddy, given only Ralph owns one ;). The mating has been kept VERY secret by Tom, which suggests (to me at least) it's a combination of a Mojave x another well known morph. Maybe I'm wrong... but there'd be no reason to keep it a secret if the "special female" were a one-of-a-kind.

I donno yet I plan on sending the owner a freindly email asking him what he thinks will be available when the eggs hatch?, and when they should hatch?, and what was the female in the pic, a normal? I will keep you guys posted with his responses.

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Originally Posted by crisstyle21

I donno yet I plan on sending the owner a freindly email asking him what he thinks will be available when the eggs hatch?, and when they should hatch?, and what was the female in the pic, a normal? I will keep you guys posted with his responses.

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Good luck with that, you'll be dropping a few k! And actually the crystal male is for sale last I heard;) . Tom has pastel crystals as well... I wouldn't expect too many answers from him about the female...I know I wouldn't tell the secret of my projects to someone I didn't know....in fact I bet he'd just tell you..."she's "special"". LMAO

Lol Hey its worth a try. Hes selling the male for 15,000. I donno yet if its been sold. I just asked him what will he expect to get out of eggs hes producing to that normal. Co-doms?,or Hets. Just so he can paint me some kind of picture what that morph can be

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Originally Posted by crisstyle21

Lol Hey its worth a try. Hes selling the male for 15,000. I donno yet if its been sold. I just asked him what will he expect to get out of eggs hes producing to that normal. Co-doms?,or Hets. Just so he can paint me some kind of picture what that morph can be

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edit: nvm....:)

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The mating has been kept VERY secret by Tom, which suggests (to me at least) it's a combination of a Mojave x another well known morph. Maybe I'm wrong... but there'd be no reason to keep it a secret if the "special female" were a one-of-a-kind.

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You wouldn't say that if you remembered back to the dozens and dozens of wild caught yellow belly ads that inundated the classifieds once it was proven that REAL yellowbellies created the Ivory ball. If Tom posted pics of the female, every importer in the country would be posting ads of similar looking CH normals with ridiculous prices on them.

Mark

The special female is not a common morph. If this were the case, then maybe someone else would have hit on it already, other than BHB.

I have had the chance to talk to Tom in person, and he is not letting the cat out of the bad ANY time soon.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

You wouldn't say that if you remembered back to the dozens and dozens of wild caught yellow belly ads that inundated the classifieds once it was proven that REAL yellowbellies created the Ivory ball. If Tom posted pics of the female, every importer in the country would be posting ads of similar looking CH normals with ridiculous prices on them.

Mark

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Well yes, a relatively "normal" looking morph may be the culprit as well. It's not hard to remember the ads... they are still around. Heck, there's still a constant influx of CH "Pastel Looking" ads on KS and FC relatively often.

It's only a matter of time before someone hits it that isn't nearly as ethical as Brian... and out we have the combination for the Crystal.

i bet it's a vpi axanthic and pewter mix

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Originally Posted by jeffjr464

i bet it's a vpi axanthic and pewter mix

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What are you talking about???
The crystal is from a mojave and "special" female breeding. He has not been letting out the look of this female but other people have figured it out. One of them being Ralph Davis.

"i bet it's a vpi axanthic and pewter mix"


I don't think so...


But you can always run it by Tom and see what he says!


(By the way, It is a Mojave cross.... for sure!)

Ok I spoke to The breeder which im keeping his name anonymous for those who dont know who he is, and everyone was right on what he'll say,lol. Read what he told me:

Hello Chris,
I believe by the normal female your talking about the one I call "special"? That is what I am assuming since she really does look relatively normal, just a bit different.... I am actually planning on selling her. I believe that she is already spoken for, but it has been very slow going so I am going to find out today or tommorrow if she is available.
I am hoping that the "Special" turns out to be a co-dom since we know when bred to a Pastel it really cleans it up and when bred to a Mojave it makes a Crystal... It would be nice to breed a Crystal back to the "Special" mother and produce a Super Crystal... Or the Pastel Crystal male back to the "Special Pastel" and produce a Super Pastel Super Crystal!
At the moment I have a breeding 735 gram Crystal male available, and I have a "Special" female that if she is not sold I will offer as a pair with a "Special Mojave" (lighter blushed Mojave from the Crystal clutch)... If you have any interest in these snakes just let me know and maybe we can work something out... I hopefully will have an few different choices this season, but I donot expect any Crystal related clutches for a few more days!
Thanks for your interest,

Just curious, why would you need the breeder to be anonymous?

While it would be interesting to know the genetics, I just love looking at pictures of Crystal! So...hawt.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Just curious, why would you need the breeder to be anonymous?

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I didnt want to put any names or anything like that out in the public. I respect the guy enough not to say who he is.

We will find out one day what makes crystal balls!! one day, lol. Come on Ralph work your magic and let us know how its done.

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Originally Posted by crisstyle21

We will find out one day what makes crystal balls!!

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The "special" animals that make crystals will be on tables in Daytona this summer ... keep an eye out. ;)

Hope this helps.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

The "special" animals that make crystals will be on tables in Daytona this summer ... keep an eye out. ;)

Hope this helps.

-adam

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OMG!!! Cant wait!! thnx adam for that tip

Is it an emerald?:P



dr del

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

The "special" animals that make crystals will be on tables in Daytona this summer ... keep an eye out. ;)

Hope this helps.

-adam

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Sweet!! TTake lots of pictures Adam! :gj:

Since the "special" female looks normal, and the mojo looks like a mojo, then why is it producing that snake?! Chimera?!

Hello,
This is my first post here and since there was questions, I thought I would fill everyone in on the Crystal project...
I originally picked up a female from one of my detailing clients that I bred to a Pastel... I held back one female Pastel (was extraordinary) and sold off the rest...
She took a year off and then was bred to a Mojave... Out of 4 eggs I ended up with 0.1 Crystal, 0.1 "Special Mojave" (lighter kinda orangish Mojave), 0.1 Mojave, and 0.1 Normal...
Last season she was bred again to a Mojave and produced 7 eggs... 2.2 Crystals (0.1 Paradox), 1.1 "Special Mojave", and 0.1 "Special"...
Knowing the genetics I also bred a Mojave to my holdback Pastel... She proved to be a "Special Pastel" and produced 5 eggs including 1.1 Pastel Crystals, 0.1 Mojave, 1.0 Pastel, and 1.0 Normal...
I am expecting a couple clutches this year from the "Special" parents and I have also bred both Crystal males to a Normal female hoping for some eggs...
As Adam has said, I have recently heard rumors also about the "Special" side of the Crystal and time will tell... It is not obvious to me, and others who have seen the "Special Mother", but it will be interesting.
To date I have released 1.0 Crystal, 0.1 Paradox Crystal, 0.1 Pastel Crystal, 0.1 Crystal, and 0.1 "Special Mojave"... I have also advertised 1.0 Crystal male (as someone has posted) and I have 0.1 "Special" (as stated in the email response) that is probably sold but taking some time... I might offer her as a pair with 1.0 "Special Mojave" if the buyer backs out.
I apologize for such a long post, but I figured I would answer every question since I was informed that I was selling the "Special Mother" which was just a reading error...
Here is a photo of my Pastel Crystal male hanging with my Pastel Mojave male... I took this a few weeks ago and really like this picture...
Let me know what you think,
Tom Baker
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/...tarMojaves.jpg

Thanks Tom!! Glad you made it over to BP.net! And thanks for informing us, defanatly an intresting project, looking forward to updates, etc.:carrot:

And don't yell at me, but I am going to guess at the special female, Het russo lucy?

Whatever the genetics are on that "special" female they certainly do some sweet things! :sunny:
Yet another cool snake with nearly endless breeding options to create some very cool morphs.

I mentioned Platty Daddy earlier in a post because i know they throw off normal looking animals that carry the mysterious Platty gene that wil produce Platties when bred to lesser siblings. My guess is this special female has that or a similar gene that reacted with the Mojave (which are similar to lessers) and made the crystal. Just my guess but certainly a possibility. Beautiful snakes, similar to the pewter in effect but lighter tones. Gotta love it!

Hey Tom! Good to see you


:D

Welcome to BPNet Tom! Whatever makes your Crystals, they are to my eye one of the most stunning morphs out there. On my personal list of "I have to see this snake one day" sort of thing. :) Stick around, drag up a chair and I hope you enjoy your membership here!

Hey thanks tom, sorry to post your response into the public. Its just everyone here at bp.net was going crazy on how this crystal was made. Thanks for personally coming over and showing us the project!!

Thanks Everyone!
Heather,
Whats up? Daytona this year?
Chris,
No worries for posting my reply to your email...

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

I mentioned Platty Daddy earlier in a post because i know they throw off normal looking animals that carry the mysterious Platty gene that wil produce Platties when bred to lesser siblings. My guess is this special female has that or a similar gene that reacted with the Mojave (which are similar to lessers) and made the crystal. Just my guess but certainly a possibility. Beautiful snakes, similar to the pewter in effect but lighter tones. Gotta love it!

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You stole my thunder. That's exactly what it is, I'd be willing to put a buck and a half on it. It's the Mojave Daddy, hehe.

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

You stole my thunder. That's exactly what it is, I'd be willing to put a buck and a half on it. It's the Mojave Daddy, hehe.

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You mean Mojo Momma, right?:P

Hello,
This is my first post here and since there was questions, I thought I would fill everyone in on the Crystal project...
I originally picked up a female from one of my detailing clients that I bred to a Pastel... I held back one female Pastel (was extraordinary) and sold off the rest...
She took a year off and then was bred to a Mojave... Out of 4 eggs I ended up with 0.1 Crystal, 0.1 "Special Mojave" (lighter kinda orangish Mojave), 0.1 Mojave, and 0.1 Normal...
Last season she was bred again to a Mojave and produced 7 eggs... 2.2 Crystals (0.1 Paradox), 1.1 "Special Mojave", and 0.1 "Special"...

*HERE THOMAS TELLS OF A 0.1PARADOX. IM OVER HERE SCRATCHING MY HEAD ON HOW THIS PARADOX MUST LOOK LIKE. SOMEONE HAVE ANY CLUE OR PICS?*

You never know how different genes in the white snake complex are going to interact but I would think the dilute mojave would be darker than the dilute lesser (platy) since mojave is darker than lesser.

But I do suspect that the crystal might be a combo of alleles in this group. It's lighter than a super/homozygous phantom but darker than a homozygous mojave. I wonder what a phantom + mojave would look like? Also, where is all the yellow shift coming from? Probably something new in the special female, which of course could be completely unrelated to the white snake group after all.

Hopefully Tom will let us know what comes out of crystal X normal breeding as that might help figure out what is going on. If any crystals or normals are produced then we know special and mojave aren't alleles. If only specials and mojave are produced by crystal X normal then they still could be alleles but one clutch wouldn't be enough to really prove it.

Tom good to see you on this forum. I guess your friends with a guy named Shane he breeds Corns and balls lives in Murrieta?? hes been telling me about your crystals for a while now. I used his pastel male to breed to a few of my females. Anyways cool to see you here.

I say this is the missing piece. LOL.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...1/DSCF0285.jpg

Nice pic, Tom! The Crystal is smokin hot...

Thanks everyon!!!
"The "special" animals that make crystals will be on tables in Daytona this summer ... keep an eye out."
Adam,
Now do you have anything else you would like to add to this statement? Anything at all? :rolleye2: It was fun hanging with you and your boys in Daytona!!!! Sorry about some of the casualties! :sabduel: Last year was an XXL... This year was a L... WHat does someone have to do to get an XL? :P
crisstile21
My computer crashed so I have absolutely no photos of the Paradox Crystal anymore... If you look for John Berrys book "Designer Morphs" there is a pic with a Crystal and a paradox Crystal that are less than a week old... I will see if I can get a photo sent to me of the Paradox...

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Originally Posted by Python Dreams

Now do you have anything else you would like to add to this statement? Anything at all? :rolleye2:

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Guess I was wrong about the crystal mammas ... should have said lollipop mommas! :D

You ROCK bro! Anytime you need a wingman just call and I'll send Vaughn! :rofl:

Like I said in the other post, I got your XL ... call a brother or something and we'll get it out to you!

-adam

i know that there are 2 strains of crystals beign worked

i know that brian has made crystals w/ lessers
and tom has made them w/ the mojaves. as a matter of fact tom has produced a couple of pastel crystal. and one has been sold.
tom has revealed his "special" mojave efmale...but looks damn normal to me

i dont see anything special...must be the same like the YB sibs that make SS
or the lesser sibs that make platty's...

who knows....im partially color blind so that doesnt help

Tom,

I have the pics I took of the Paradox last year at Anahiem if you want me to post them....

Let me know, and I will. :D