Cool side still isn't warm enough...

Well yesterday I moved my snakes tank from my basement to a room all the way upstairs because in my basement the cool side was only about 68 degrees all day. The room upstairs gets much hotter and now it is about 74 degrees on the cool side which is a lot warmer but still 8-10 degrees too cold. Since the space heater idea is out of the question (don't ask why), my only other option would be to buy another UTH/T-Stat right???

That's pretty much what it sounds like... is it possible for you to use a CHE?

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

Well yesterday I moved my snakes tank from my basement to a room all the way upstairs because in my basement the cool side was only about 68 degrees all day. The room upstairs gets much hotter and now it is about 74 degrees on the cool side which is a lot warmer but still 8-10 degrees too cold. Since the space heater idea is out of the question (don't ask why), my only other option would be to buy another UTH/T-Stat right???

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Here are the options

1/ Oil Filled space heater in the room where you keep your BP so the room can be kept at around 80-84 degrees

2/ Secondary heat source and T-Stat to maintain temps between 80-84

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

Here are the options

1/ Oil Filled space heater in the room where you keep your BP so the room can be kept at around 80-84 degrees

2/ Secondary heat source and T-Stat to maintain temps between 80-84

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Originally Posted by [b

rmune0750][/b]
Since the space heater idea is out of the question (don't ask why), my only other option would be to buy another UTH/T-Stat right???

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so my only option is actually #2

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

Since the space heater idea is out of the question (don't ask why), my only other option would be to buy another UTH/T-Stat right???

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons
Here are the options

1/ Oil Filled space heater in the room where you keep your BP so the room can be kept at around 80-84 degrees

2/ Secondary heat source and T-Stat to maintain temps between 80-84


so my only option is #2

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Originally Posted by Amy05

That's pretty much what it sounds like... is it possible for you to use a CHE?

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i dont think so b/c my tank is so huge (55 gal)

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

i dont think so b/c my tank is so huge (55 gal)

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Well, there's your problem right there. Even with a second UTH, you may struggle to keep ambient temps warm enough and need to add overhead lights...which will play havoc with your humidity.

Why struggle THIS hard with an unnecessarily large tank? If you want those temps in the correct range, get yourself an appropriate sized plastic tub. You may not even need a second UTH if you do that....low humidity will cease to be an issue....cleaning is ever-so-much easier....much cheaper to warm overall than a huge glass tank......etc etc etc...

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

i dont think so b/c my tank is so huge (55 gal)

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I would downsize if I were you 55 Gal is too big even for an adult and almost impossible to maintain.

That should be your first step then get an additional heat source if you cannot have a space heater.

I also have a large enclosure and here is what I did to solve the problem:

UTH not enough for cool side temps.. so
1) insulate enclosure best you can
2) add CHE on hot side
3) move thermostat probe to on top of substrate on the hot side so that it is exposed to the CHE.
4) plug both the UTH and the CHE into the thermostat.
5) measure temps on cool side and hot side, paying special attention to floor temps and temps inside warm hide
6) adjust as needed.....you should not house an animal in the tank while you are fussing with getting the right balance.
7) prepare to mist a lot and fight with humidity levels.

good luck :)

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Originally Posted by JLC

Well, there's your problem right there. Even with a second UTH, you may struggle to keep ambient temps warm enough and need to add overhead lights...which will play havoc with your humidity.

Why struggle THIS hard with an unnecessarily large tank? If you want those temps in the correct range, get yourself an appropriate sized plastic tub. You may not even need a second UTH if you do that....low humidity will cease to be an issue....cleaning is ever-so-much easier....much cheaper to warm overall than a huge glass tank......etc etc etc...

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then that $50 i spent on the glass tank would be completely a waste :(

ur saying another UTH wouldnt be able to get my temp on the cool side up only 8 degrees?

and a UTH wouldnt melt a plastic tub??

what do u use as a cover for the top of the tub?

I really don't see what the problem is. It's a large enclosure. The cool side doesn't have to be exact. The snake will determine what temperature range it likes. If it likes to be a little cooler it will go to the cool side. Too often we try to make everything "perfect" well it's not always necessary. As long as the hot spot is at the right temperature there is nothing to worry about. The snakes know how to live and maintain the body temps they need. This is just my opinion. :crix:

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Originally Posted by Swoof

I really don't see what the problem is. It's a large enclosure. The cool side doesn't have to be exact. The snake will determine what temperature range it likes. If it likes to be a little cooler it will go to the cool side. Too often we try to make everything "perfect" well it's not always necessary. As long as the hot spot is at the right temperature there is nothing to worry about. The snakes know how to live and maintain the body temps they need. This is just my opinion. :crix:

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BP have special requirements and it is important to provide the proper husbandry for their overall health, unless of course you want do deal with the following
BP going off feed, BP having a RI, BP regurgitating, etc.

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

and a UTH wouldnt melt a plastic tub??

what do u use as a cover for the top of the tub?

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No because like with any heating device and enclosure you MUST have a thermostat to provide proper temp avoid overheating.

You can use the lid with big binder paper clip or get one of those latchable tub from rubbermaid

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Originally Posted by Swoof

I really don't see what the problem is. It's a large enclosure. The cool side doesn't have to be exact. The snake will determine what temperature range it likes. If it likes to be a little cooler it will go to the cool side. Too often we try to make everything "perfect" well it's not always necessary. As long as the hot spot is at the right temperature there is nothing to worry about. The snakes know how to live and maintain the body temps they need. This is just my opinion. :crix:

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This is not true on almost every level.

The cool side DOES have to be exact. A ball python that has found a secure place on the cool side will choose that security even if the temperature drops below the ideal range. A ball python experiencing temperatures in the low 70s for any extended period of time is at high risk for developing a URI.

You said that "as long as the hotspot is the right temperature...," so are you telling me that a ball python in a cage with a 92 degree hotspot with an ambient temperature of 60 is an acceptable range? Absolutely not.

The snake does know how to regulate and maintain their body temperature - but only in right circumstances. It has been found that ball pythons thermoregulate very well when provided with a thermal gradient from 82-84 / cool side to 92-94 / hot side.

I've been raising and breeding Ball pythons for 5 years. I'm just going by my experiences. You should have secure hides in several area's in an enclosure that large. If your only getting an ambient temperature of 60 in a room that is 76 degrees you should have a low wattage heat light over the cool end of the tank. Most of the top of an enclosure that size should be covered with something to maintain humidity and heat anyways.

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Originally Posted by Swoof

If your only getting an ambient temperature of 60 in a room that is 76 degrees you should have a low wattage heat light over the cool end of the tank.

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How would it be possible to have an ambient temperature of 60 inside the cage in a room that is 76?

Did you mean that the other way around?

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

How would it be possible to have an ambient temperature of 60 inside the cage in a room that is 76?

Did you mean that the other way around?

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You suggested the ambient temperature was 60. I wasn't sure if he said his room was 76 or not, just checking he said his room temp is 74 degrees.

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Originally Posted by Swoof

You suggested the ambient temperature was 60. I wasn't sure if he said his room was 76 or not, just checking he said his room temp is 74 degrees.

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If you read my initial post, you'll notice I only used that number to create an example to refute the point you made about the cool side temperature not being important so long as an appropriate hot spot was provided.

What I am saying is that maintaining the cool side temperature at an appropriate level is, effectively, just as important as maintaining the warm side.

I'm going by his information provided. If he's using a standard 50 gallon tank. That would be 4' long. Having 74 at the far end of this enclosure would be fine as long as he has plenty of hides and has a substrate temperature of 94. I'm sorry if you don't agree with me. As I previously stated this is just my opinion. I'm not telling him to listen to me in the least.

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Originally Posted by Swoof

I'm going by his information provided. If he's using a standard 50 gallon tank. That would be 4' long. Having 74 at the far end of this enclosure would be fine as long as he has plenty of hides and has a substrate temperature of 94. I'm sorry if you don't agree with me. As I previously stated this is just my opinion. I'm not telling him to listen to me in the least.

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We could go back and fourth forever, there's professional breeders on this site that rely on ball pythons to feed their families, and they would tell you that providing an enclosure where a ball python could be exposed to temperatures in the low 70s 24/7 is NOT a good thing regardless of how many hides or what the substrate temperature is.

I understand this is your opinion, but you are not correct. I don't want any new keepers reading this thread thinking that it is OK for their snake to be exposed to temperatures that low.

If "you're not telling him to listen to you in the least," why are you still posting?

I'm seriously thinking about buying a plastic tub to use instead of that complete waste of money glass tank...

where is there a place online that I can buy a plastic tub?

rubbermaid.com?

Because I'm answering your questioning of me. If you want me to stop posting tell me so. I just figured you might think it rude of me not to answer your questions if your going to question me.

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

I'm seriously thinking about buying a plastic tub to use instead of that complete waste of money glass tank...

where is there a place online that I can buy a plastic tub?

rubbermaid.com?

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You can find tubs at walmart, lowes, target, home depot

Here is an idea when it come to sizes you will need depending on your BP's size

Baby – 15 Quarts (17"L x 11 1/8"W x 6 3/8"H)
Sub Adult – 32 Quarts (23 1/2"L x 16 1/4"W x 6 3/8"H)
Adult – 41 Quarts (34 3/4"L x 16 1/2"W x 6"H)

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

I'm seriously thinking about buying a plastic tub to use instead of that complete waste of money glass tank...

where is there a place online that I can buy a plastic tub?

rubbermaid.com?

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It wasn't a waste of money...get some fish! ;)

I think I remember another thread where you said that you weren't close to a target or a walmart...those would be the easiest places to go...

Try here: www.officedepot.com
Item #: 184327

The CB70 tub would be fine for a juvi-adult ball python.

Another thing you might consider to bring up ambient temperatures. If the tank is up against a wall, possibly see about getting a small human heating pad, one of the ones that comes with a cloth cover. Put this behind the tank against the wall on the cool side. If you run it on a low setting it shouldn't use up too much electricity.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

It wasn't a waste of money...get some fish! ;)

I think I remember another thread where you said that you weren't close to a target or a walmart...those would be the easiest places to go...

Try here: www.officedepot.com
Item #: 184327

The CB70 tub would be fine for a juvi-adult ball python.

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6 inches tall is high enough???

that seems so low

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

6 inches tall is high enough???

that seems so low

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It's plenty high enough. Try to remember that in their natural environment, they spend almost all their time in tight, underground burrows and termite mounds. They thrive in the secure environment that a low ceiling provides them.

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

6 inches tall is high enough???

that seems so low

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sure is. They are terrestrial snakes. They do sometimes climb but are mostly ground dwelling.

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Originally Posted by JLC

It's plenty high enough. Try to remember that in their natural environment, they spend almost all their time in tight, underground burrows and termite mounds. They thrive in the secure environment that a low ceiling provides them.

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so is that tub that elevatethis posted sufficient?

will that one tub be big enough for its whole life?

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

so is that tub that elevatethis posted sufficient?

will that one tub be big enough for its whole life?

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Yes it will be

That is the standard size used by most people for adult ball pythons. Any tub close to those dimensions should be sufficient. Just make sure all sides of the lid are secure at all times. DON'T USE DUCT TAPE. Many people have tried using duct tape to keep the sides of the lids closed and the snakes have managed to attempt getting out. Resulting in either get stuck up in the tape or get stuck half way out the lid and the tight fit ends up doing damage to their body.

do i have to drill holes in the tub?

do i use the lid that comes with that tub?

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

do i have to drill holes in the tub?

do i use the lid that comes with that tub?

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You can use the lid that comes with it if. You will want to drill or melt some holes in with a soldering gun. If you drill, make sure to sand down the rough edges. There is no perfect amount to put in it, it is all testing and seeing what works.

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

You can use the lid that comes with it if. You will want to drill or melt some holes in with a soldering gun. If you drill, make sure to sand down the rough edges. There is no perfect amount to put in it, it is all testing and seeing what works.

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can the snake breathe with the lid on and no holes in the tub??

You'll want to put a few holes in the tub itself for ventilation. Maybe 8-10 on each side.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

You'll want to put a few holes in the tub itself for ventilation. Maybe 8-10 on each side.

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would the tub u gave me a link to be able to fit 2 of these large hides:

http://www.faunology.co.uk/shop/prod...es/t_16727.jpg

and also a medium water bowl and a plant ???

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

would the tub u gave me a link to be able to fit 2 of these large hides:

http://www.faunology.co.uk/shop/prod...es/t_16727.jpg

and also a medium water bowl and a plant ???

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make it easy on yourself and order from www.reptiletubs.com and grab some hides from him. How big is your snake anyway?

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

make it easy on yourself and order from www.reptiletubs.com and grab some hides from him. How big is your snake anyway?

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I just thought about it, my UTH is meant for 50-60 gallon tanks.....so wouldnt it be too big for most tubs??

my snake is like 2 feet long

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

I just thought about it, my UTH is meant for 50-60 gallon tanks.....so wouldnt it be too big for most tubs??

my snake is like 2 feet long

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A 55 gallon is way overkill for a BP that size and could be overkill for most BP. Yes, that would be a tad big so save that for the 55 gallon in case you want to throw some lizards in it and just get some flexwatt. It is much cheaper than any heatmats that you will find at the store.

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

A 55 gallon is way overkill for a BP that size and could be overkill for most BP. Yes, that would be a tad big so save that for the 55 gallon in case you want to throw some lizards in it and just get some flexwatt. It is much cheaper than any heatmats that you will find at the store.

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oyyyy....i have so much stuff to re-do

all due to not doing any research :colbert::mad:

this means that my $35 UTH and my $50 tanks were a complete waste of money :mad::mad::mad:

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

this means that my $35 UTH and my $50 tanks were a complete waste of money :mad::mad::mad:

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you are lucky if you only paid that much for either. You can sell them off. Try craigslist.

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

this means that my $35 UTH and my $50 tanks were a complete waste of money :mad::mad::mad:

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Don't worry about it...you may still be able to use your UTH, just be sure that you use a thermostat to control it.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Don't worry about it...you may still be able to use your UTH, just be sure that you use a thermostat to control it.

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but then i have to get a huge tub

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

but then i have to get a huge tub

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Not necessarily...what size is the heat pad you are currently using?

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Not necessarily...what size is the heat pad you are currently using?

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im using an exo-terra UTH for 50-60 gallon tanks :(

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

im using an exo-terra UTH for 50-60 gallon tanks :(

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length and width wise, what are the dimensions?

Did you know that having a larger heat pad actually spreads the heat more evenly across of its surface? You are better off with the larger one, in reality. If you selected a tub in which the heat pad covered 1/4 of the bottom of the tub and controlled the heat pad with a reliable thermostat, you're good to go. Remember, the heat pad is going on the bottom outside of the tub, so you can even place the tub on the mat in such a way that its not covering the pad completely.

I use 11" Flexwatt in one of my racks and it works great. I think that the ET UTH is of similar dimensions.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Did you know that having a larger heat pad actually spreads the heat more evenly across of its surface? You are better off with the larger one, in reality. If you selected a tub in which the heat pad covered 1/4 of the bottom of the tub and controlled the heat pad with a reliable thermostat, you're good to go. Remember, the heat pad is going on the bottom outside of the tub, so you can even place the tub on the mat in such a way that its not covering the pad completely.

I use 11" Flexwatt in one of my racks and it works great. I think that the ET UTH is of similar dimensions.

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thats very good to hear....so what size tub do u think would be perfect with my circumstances?