Morph Sales

From the breeders: what is the most sold morph? I am intrested to know what people purchase the most.
Has it changed over the years?

Thanks!


edit: Mod or Admin, can you move this to BP morphs and genetics? i forgot to put it there. Thanks :D :D

Thats a pretty simple answer for me. SPIDERS, SPIDERS AND MORE SPIDERS.


That answer will vary according to who you talk to and what they have to sell.

lol. thanks. i was thinking pastels and albinos are up there, but i'm not sure... just wondering about breeding from a bussiness owner's perspective.

Albinos and pieds. I'm sold out and continune to get requests just about every day. ;)

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

pieds

---

Do you plan to produce many pieds next season?

Another request right before our eyes...

And there you have it... recessive traits are low in supply and high in demand! Whoda thunk it?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Albinos and pieds. I'm sold out and continune to get requests just about every day. ;)

-adam

---

Yeah can't even get a het pied pair :( - just not fair (just kidding)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cueball

Do you plan to produce many pieds next season?

---

No.

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

No.

-adam

---

Why not? If they're one of your two top selling snakes...

Just curious..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Albinos and pieds. I'm sold out and continune to get requests just about every day. ;)

-adam

---

If I was a breeder and I had requests everyday I'd be making sure I was pumping 'em out lol...

:rockon:

With a recessive trait like a Pied you produce more Hets than homo's. And the profit is lower on the hets than the morphed stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by djslurp1200

Why not? If they're one of your two top selling snakes...

Just curious..

---

Because for me, it's not just about how much I can make. ;)

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

With a recessive trait like a Pied you produce more Hets than homo's. And the profit is lower on the hets than the morphed stuff.

---

Actually, if you crunch the numbers and depending how you do things, there can be a higher profit margin on the hets. At least that's how one of my bplans works out.

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Because for me, it's not just about how much I can make. ;)

-adam

---

Oh that's cool...Great attitude! I'd just want to keep the supply for the happy customers who are buying from you and requesting them from you...Gotta keep the customers happy!

I'm in sales, I sell computer peripherals and networking products. A little differen't then the snake business but the same idea. If we don't have a product that a customer needs/wants they'll go elsewhere...But hey props to the good attitude!

:rockon:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by djslurp1200

Oh that's cool...Great attitude! I'd just want to keep the supply for the happy customers who are buying from you and requesting them from you...Gotta keep the customers happy!

I'm in sales, I sell computer peripherals and networking products. A little differen't then the snake business but the same idea. If we don't have a product that a customer needs/wants they'll go elsewhere...But hey props to the good attitude!

:rockon:

---

The cool thing about the way I work in this biz is that if I run out of something that is in demand, I have tons of great customers and friends who breed balls that I can turn people on to in order to help them out! :D ;) :sweeet:

I just try to "do it right". ;)

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Because for me, it's not just about how much I can make. ;)

-adam

---

Wysocki love these animals and he would keep everyone he hatches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

The cool thing about the way I work in this biz is that if I run out of something that is in demand, I have tons of great customers and friends who breed balls that I can turn people on to in order to help them out! :D ;) :sweeet:

I just try to "do it right". ;)

-adam

---

awesome man! That's a positive way to jig the jam!
Turning the customers onto other customers, Never heard of a breeder doing that but it's awesome to hear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Wysocki love these animals and he would keep everyone he hatches.

---

I sure as heck try. ;)

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I sure as heck try. ;)

-adam

---

You know...I could warn you about what happens when you do that... ;)

Being your own biggest customer rocks! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KLG

Being your own biggest customer rocks! :D

---

Until the invoice from your rat guy shows up. :rofl:

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Until the invoice from your rat guy shows up. :rofl:

-adam

---

Or in this case, the invoice from 10 tons of rodent food. :bolt: :eyepoppin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KLG

Or in this case, the invoice from 10 tons of rodent food. :bolt: :eyepoppin

---

I need to go pick up 2 tons next week :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KLG

Or in this case, the invoice from 10 tons of rodent food. :bolt: :eyepoppin

---

Why do I get the feeling you're not exaggerating? :O

haha. I was wondering because i notice that a lot of people get hets, probably because they are more affordable. It is the reason i didn't get a pied pair, i wanted to have some hets too.

The big question that I have as far as breeding sales is...

What percentage of buyers are buying just to have a cool looking and rare snake, and what percentage are people buying morphs to breed and start their own projects/sales

I bought hets because I could not afford an albino

I don't think that kind of market research has been done, so there really isn't an answer out there besides what we can pull out of our....

However, I would speculate that the vast majority of people investing in morphs over say, $1000, are making just that - an investment - to make a return in breeding the animal. I'll further speculate that as prices for certain morphs drop below the $1000 mark, less and less buyers will be totally concerned with breeding it, and acquire the animal for the sake of owning it.

I'm sure others could argue different numbers, but I think that's the overall jist of things.

we picked up a pair of het pieds from adam cause we want a pied for ourselves ;) we also picked up a pair of pastels (VPI and a lemon) cause we wanna make some supers and then breed them back to the pieds... - cause we want a pastel pied.

we also want a spider... but that'll be farther down the road. gonna enjoy and grow up these little ones first ;)

so... we are breeding to get what WE want... and we'll sell or trade off the rest but i'm not worried about it... it's far in the future for us. (and up here in canada... not nearly as many breeders... )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

and up here in canada... not nearly as many breeders

---

Haha, dont be so sure about that Aleesha, I could probably list off 100 BP breeders in Canada in 4 minutes LOL, most of whom you would'nt have heard of... hell, I could list off at least 50 in B.C. alone ;).....and also, the population is nowhere near that of the U.S., so in the end, the Canadian market is just as over saturated as the U.S., if not moreso.......

Edit: which is why alot of morphs are actually cheaper in Canada now than they are in the states, because there simply arent as many buyers for the animals, and competitive pricing gets out of hand.... Example: I havent checked U.S. prices in awhile, but I havent seen any Albino's selling for $700usd...you can easily get one in Canada for that price, in fact, the absolute highest priced Albino in Canada, is $1310usd....

To the un-named person who left me negative feedback and anyone else....I shouldve have added that all the prices I was rambling about were publically offered prices, and I was only comparing them to publicly offered prices. I did not even delve into backdoor or insider prices, because theres a reason theyre called that ;) and to be honest alot of people here would douse there drawers if they knew what some people were actually paying for morphs out the back ;) and also, to suggest that I gauge the BP market by the prices on kingsnake was actually rather insulting to me ;)

That's a dumb reason to get/give negative feedback......negative feedback shouldn't be given when you disagree with WHAT someone says, its about HOW someone says it.

I'm sure one of the mods with make it right...you didn't do or say anything wrong.

No doubt Brad... it just read like a PM, not feedback of any sort, so I couldnt figure out why they left it there, unless they didnt want me responding ;)

The person has now sent me a PM and its been cleared up :D

Brad, you have PM ;)

I can see a lot of people wanting hets because they cant afford the actual snake, and breeding is a fun hobby.

I would say that to me, money being involved in breeding is a good justification for owning these snakes. hehe, its easier to justify buying a $1,000 snake if I can make that money back.

My only concern is when everybody in the market is buying to breed, who are the actual pet owner customers?

I also second the fact that the sub $1,000 snakes are much more likely to become a pet. With that logic you could say as more and more morphs become sub $1,000 snakes and even as they continue to drop from there, there will be more and more of a pet owner market available, thus stabilizing prices. The question then becomes, at what price will a Spider stabilize at?

I don't think its even a bad thing that prices will eventually go down, I also don't think its going to be too drastic in the near future. But 100 years from now, I think we can all agree that a Spider will not be 10 times the price of a normal ball python.

I also thought that there was a big profit with hets, because a lot of people can't afford the morphs...which is why i didnt get a pied pair, i want some hets, because it looks like a lot of people want hets.

I wonder about that too, if people are breeding, then who is buying, but a lot of breeders buy from other breeders, because it is something they don't have. The majority of the people that are breeding are not BIG time breeders, like Adam has a LOT of morphs, where as, some people might only deal with pastels and spiders. Or atleast this is what i have noticed, it's definatley not a factual thing.

well then I guess I know what I'll be buying more of

This is actually something I've been wondering. Who buys all these expensive morphs. besides people who plan on breeding there own.

I mean is there an actual market for people who have never owned a snake and say hey I feel like paying $5000 for a BP morph... never owned one before but I think it'll be cool to have one.

Or is the majority of the market for BP morphs fall within ourselves the hardcore herp people who breed, and own multiple herps and such.

If the later is true could the BP morph scene eventually cool down alot because we'll run out of people buying them.

There will always be a demand for normals for pets but what about the morphs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kplunk

I mean is there an actual market for people who have never owned a snake and say hey I feel like paying $5000 for a BP morph... never owned one before but I think it'll be cool to have one.

---

If there is a market for people to buy 18000 dollar carry on suitcases I think anything is possible this day and age. 5000 dollar purses, grilled cheese with the face of the virgin mary 35000 dollars, need I go on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spaniard

If there is a market for people to buy 18000 dollar carry on suitcases I think anything is possible this day and age. 5000 dollar purses, grilled cheese with the face of the virgin mary 35000 dollars, need I go on.

---

So as BP morph breeders besides selling to hardcore herpers we have to rely on ridiculous people to keep this business going.

Ok this is not to make anybody angry but rather just a statement.

It almost sounds to me like a pyramid scheme ( i know it isn't but just hear me out) You know you have a product attempt to sell it to people say how wonderful it is. But hey you can also make money at it too. so you sell them the business ( in this case an expensive BP morph) So they aren't lying to you, you can make money but to make the most money you have to turn around and sell the business to more people. now everyone makes money until the fact that you run out of people who are wanting to buy the business and then the whole thing crumbles.

almost like a pyramid scheme except money doesn't travel back up through the chain of people who sold the business to each other.

Hope this doesn't ring a bad vibe wasn't meant to just popped into my head.

Wasn't trying to make it seem like there is a huge market for "rediculous people" just presenting the fact that it is possible. As far as the market dying down, well I haven't been in it at all on the selling side of things so I couldn't tell. But I'm sure some of the people that have been doing this for a while now and have made it there lively hood would disagree about the stregnth of the market. There are always new people getting into snakes for the first time, young and old, proof of that is in the amount of new members we see coming here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kplunk

So as BP morph breeders besides selling to hardcore herpers we have to rely on ridiculous people to keep this business going.

Ok this is not to make anybody angry but rather just a statement.

It almost sounds to me like a pyramid scheme ( i know it isn't but just hear me out) You know you have a product attempt to sell it to people say how wonderful it is. But hey you can also make money at it too. so you sell them the business ( in this case an expensive BP morph) So they aren't lying to you, you can make money but to make the most money you have to turn around and sell the business to more people. now everyone makes money until the fact that you run out of people who are wanting to buy the business and then the whole thing crumbles.

almost like a pyramid scheme except money doesn't travel back up through the chain of people who sold the business to each other.

Hope this doesn't ring a bad vibe wasn't meant to just popped into my head.

---

Interesting idea, even kind of makes sense. I think the truth is nobody knows for sure what will happen. Maybe take a look and see what has happened to other exotic animal sales in the past.

I think the point is, you should do this as a hobby for yourself, and the enjoyment of owing or breeding. If you want to try and make your money back that is good, but it shouldn't be a priority. Also, I don't think morphs will ever completely crash, as long as people want to own snakes, there will be people that want a cooler, rarer and prettier snake and are willing to spend more for it. Obviously the unanswerable question is, how much more will they spend.

Quote:

---

I think the point is, you should do this as a hobby for yourself, and the enjoyment of owing or breeding. If you want to try and make your money back that is good, but it shouldn't be a priority. Also, I don't think morphs will ever completely crash, as long as people want to own snakes, there will be people that want a cooler, rarer and prettier snake and are willing to spend more for it. Obviously the unanswerable question is, how much more will they spend

---

Also there are new and fature Herpers born every day.
I sarted with a Leo and then got the one and the the second one. (BP) and from the pics I got a baby rack that'll hold 12 so I am not stopping there.. LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Albinos and pieds. I'm sold out and continune to get requests just about every day. ;)

-adam

---

Theres your answer. I think once pieds come down a little more they'll be sold out everwhere and the demand will go back up possibly raising prices. Who doesn't see the beauty in a nice Pied them alone with albinos are attention grabbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

Theres your answer. I think once pieds come down a little more they'll be sold out everwhere and the demand will go back up possibly raising prices. Who doesn't see the beauty in a nice Pied them alone with albinos are attention grabbers.

---

I see "someone's" hoping to see a pied this season! ;)

If it weren't impossible to afford one, I'd looove a Ghost Spider....they're like living sunsets. :)

--Kim

Like any business alot has to do with supply and demand. The more people breed the more become availible on the market the lower the price becomes. like the first guy to breed albinos charged alot of money because no one else had one availible. You will always have people selling under and over market price but it evevntually balances out. You also get people who want to make a quick buck and when they don't sell real fast they drop prices to move inventory and prices start to lower if there are enough low sellers following. Co-doms drop faster because they become availible faster and recessives take more time and investment so they won't fall as quickly. Only time will tell what will happen. The important thing is to buy animals because you enjoy them. I look at morphs like natures art which we get to nourish, enjoy and watch grow. Buy snakes because you like having them not cause you think it's a cool way to get rich. It takes alot of effort to maintain groups of snakes and colonies of rats and if you don't enjoy it, it will get old FAST!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

I see "someone's" hoping to see a pied this season! ;)

---

Hopeful but not real Optimistic. Maybe I'll get a surprise though:rolleyes:

Most morph sales are made to future breeders. Some follow through, many just give up and dump their snakes the following year and loose some money.

To those who keep the ball python morphs and continue their breeding plans, you must keep in mind that this market is supply and demand. By selling to potential future breeders to make your money, the markets supply will raise, thus prices will have to drop. It's inevitable.

No one can see the exact future, but we can take educated guesses based on the other similar business models. What is likely to happen is each breeder will sell morphs to other potential future breeders, each year this fans out much like a pyramid, but it is not a scam at all. You just need to plan out what you expect and be prepared for what may happen.

Now as this pyramids out, more morphs are made. Each season this is compounded. Prices will continue to drop as supply attempts to reach demand. What some people don't understand is that morphs will hit a 'bottom' where the price levels out. This will not make these snakes worthless like some people assume, but yes.. at the point you hit a level and stable pricing market you will be selling primarily to the 'pet market' or 'collectors' and not soley to potential future breeders.

Each season, as the price drops a little, more and more breeders will step out of the hobby and maybe others who considered getting in will change their mind seeing the 'investment' part of the hobby is only going to slowly go down. This will help to stabilize things a bit and keep the price drop slow.

You should not see $100 albinos and pieds. Imported ball pythons in the pet trade, at wholesale prices are really cheap (avg $7 to $10 each) because so many are imported. Captive bred normal balls sell for a good bit more (avg $25 to $50) because they are captive bred and not so readily available. Morphs however can not be bred fast enough to supply the entire pet market at cheap prices.

This is my outlook going into things; I breed what I like, what interests me and my wife. If the market drops little by little, we expect it. If I buy a $3,000 pied and in ten years I am selling them for $500 each to people seeking pets. I will still be enjoying myself, and would have already made my money back so every snake is still a little bit of extra income. Same goes with a $1,500 albino. If I am selling them for $250 each ten years from now because the market has dropped to that level.. who cares. If I like what I do and if I knew this could happen.. It's all good. If I can sell morphs ten years down the road and make enough 'profit' to spend all day doing what I like and still make as much as I would make working for someone else.. well.. I can't complain, right? ;)

Note that these are my opinions. You can agree or disagree. I actually encourange your opinion. This can make for an interesting discussion and we will see what everyone else thinks.

Rick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SiscoReptiles

If I can sell morphs ten years down the road and make enough 'profit' to spend all day doing what I like and still make as much as I would make working for someone else.. well.. I can't complain, right? ;)


Rick

---

Oh man if that were true I would love it. I'm in university right now for a civil engineering degree specializing in Structural engineering. I have another year and a half left and I hate it. I don't hate the actual work. I hate school. I'm in 6 courses right now and I'm nearing the end actually classes end today and I have 6 exams over the next 12 days. :rolleye2: If I was able to make a living at breeding ball morphs I would do it. Don't get me wrong many people do it. But for me I put so much money into my education I wouldn't be able to get into the morph scene for awhile. Ah but one can dream.

People talk about Lessers, Mojaves, Spiders and other dom/co-doms and are so surpised to see the prices drop so much. I think that Pastels should be a good gauge for all dom/co-doms. How can a Lesser retain a value of 10x a Pastel when they are the exact same as far as being able to reproduce. If you had the ability to produce 20 Pastels in one season, you also have the ability to produce 20 Lessers in one season.

I just think that all dom/co-doms will end up in the same general price range, varying by maybe popularity. Recessives will all be in the same general price range, varying by popularity and remain a little higher than dom/co-doms, and the price drop will happen a little slower.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Griggs2121

People talk about Lessers, Mojaves, Spiders and other dom/co-doms and are so surpised to see the prices drop so much. I think that Pastels should be a good gauge for all dom/co-doms. How can a Lesser retain a value of 10x a Pastel when they are the exact same as far as being able to reproduce. If you had the ability to produce 20 Pastels in one season, you also have the ability to produce 20 Lessers in one season.

---

But you have to look at how long it took for the pastel to get to under 1K, it was a much more gradual process. There were a few reasons that doms/co-doms took a price plunge this season, it was not only because they are easy to reproduce.

-Evan