Morph King Reptiles . . .

Well earlier this year I made a deal with MKR. I was going to get a male homozygous yellow blush that was also het for albino. I paid him $500 over a course of a few months. He then shipped him out on 5-23-06. He arrived the next day fine and healthy. So 5 months roll on by and then I find out I have benn ripped off. I paid $500 for a het albino male that should only cost $125 :mad: . I thought I had a homozygous yellow blush het albino because when I saw him he looked just like what joe said they look like. Wes and Joe lied to me because they told me that Wes him self proved out the yellow blush when he did not because it is not a genetic morph. They sold him to me as a genetic morph. Here I was all along thinking that they where still producing them. If it was a genetic morph then why wouldn't it be in VPI's new book, since VPI and MKR are buddies. The reason is because its not a morph. I was originally going to get a female "double het" also but I did not have enough money. Wes told me he knew someone else that wanted her and so I guess he sold her to him. I wish I could find out who that is so they know. I will be calling Wes today after school to get joes number since joes number lised on their website is out-of-service. Joe has also been buying ball pythons from other breeders in order to fill his orders. That I think is very wrong. He tells his customers he has them when he really doesnt and then has to go and buy them from someone else in order to fill their order. I highly doubt I will get back the $375 difference. I will be calling him as soon as I can get ahold of him. I do not think i will get anything back because joe will most likely just sit their and say im lying and my sources of the information are full of it and so on. I am glad I did not get all of those other animals I was going to get from them. I will never ever ever do business with that SOB again. It burns me up inside knowing that my mom and I lost $375 to someone like that. What should I do in order to get some money back? Thank you

-Andre

Strap in kids! here we go. :carrot:

Andre man I really hate to hear about this. I think you know the thoughts and opinions a majority of people have on this board...so I promise you won't be hearing any crap from me. Can you post up some pictures of him?

i am sorry for what has happened to you from them. i wish you the best in getting anything of a refund of some kind. other than that i am now going to be spectating in this thred. as i will find i will have nothing nice to say.:rolleyes:

Here are some pics of him. It will go in order from older pics to newer pics.



http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30...snakes2005.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30...snakes2006.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30...snakes2007.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30...snakes2008.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30...itepics036.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30...snakes2054.jpg

He is the litter one in the last picture. Do you see why I thought he was a homosygous yellow blush?


-Andre

Did MKR specifically state that it was het for blush?

No. They stated specifically that he was het for albino and the he was a homozygous blush.


-Andre

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Originally Posted by Regal Boids

It burns me up inside knowing that my mom and I lost $375 to someone like that. What should I do in order to get some money back? Thank you

-Andre

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Sadly Andre, there is not much you can do.... you are out $375..like it or not.

It would be like going to Sears and buying that tool set you just had to have, without doing some checking to see if you are getting a good deal, you buy it... get home, flick on the tv, and find out you could have gotten the same tools for less through someone more reputable... then you go back to the original place of purchase and demand x amount back because you could have gotten it from Joe Schmoe for less... the are gonna look at you and laugh and tell you that you should have done your homework....

Are you now doubting that your bp is what they said it was gentically? Am I reading this right?

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Originally Posted by Regal Boids

They stated specifically that he was het for albino and the he was a homozygous blush.


-Andre

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Well, since blush trait is not proven to be genetic as you say, this would have struck a cord as odd when placing the transaction......

did you get any paperwork with this snake, what does it say as far as his genetics and thier gaurantee?

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Originally Posted by Regal Boids

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30...snakes2054.jpg

He is the litter one in the last picture. Do you see why I thought he was a homosygous yellow blush?


-Andre

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I am not making a connection here hun..help me out a bit...why would that pic lead you to believe it was a yellow belly? What am I missing?

I have a bp that looks like that, and it is a normal, nothing less nothing more ofcourse....

From the way that they talk on their site it sounds like it is a proven trait....
http://www.morphkingreptiles.com/Yel...sh_Albino.html

Are you just assuming it is not a trait because it is not in a book? or did some credible source tell you that the trait is not inheritable?

Also, I would like to know where you have seen information concerning MKRs outsourcing due to the fact that they are selling animals they did not currently have in their collection. That is a serious claim to make without any supporting evidence.

Daniel, its a fact that the largest producer of ball python morphs in the world, has been calling around looking for mojaves to fill orders.

I wonder if the middleman theme will still be seen on their next "tv show."

Andre, very sorry for you after reading your story. who would think that a used car sales person would lie?

I don't get it. Where did MKR lie? It looks like it was sold as a het albino that displays yellow blushing. Wouldn't you have to breed it out to see if that's what you actually have?

On the positive side, he looks pretty.

Personally, I don't think I'd be a het animal from anyone I didn't know really well and that I knew I could trust, but that's me...

According to their website the "yellow blush" is displayed in homozygous albinos and not in hets.

I'm confused here also...Did you buy thinking that this animal was HET for what they call the "yellow blush albino"? OR that the animal was a NORMAL pattern WITH yellow blush het for "regular" albino? I could see where they may try and charge more for a male that is het for "yellow blush albino" but I don't honestly know what determines if that price is worth it or not.

Sadly I agree that you might be out of luck...you need to be clear on all the details before you invest in anything. After 5 months its going to be hard to get your money back or return the animal. They may do it who knows...if you have sent them nasty messages or anything like that...you've dug your own grave for sure. If you communicate your questions and misunderstanding in a mature way you will probably have better luck with them (or anyone you do business with).

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Daniel, its a fact that the largest producer of ball python morphs in the world, has been calling around looking for mojaves to fill orders.

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If it is fact......where are all the people they have been calling? As far as the topic is concerned....all I have heard is a bunch of 'he said, she said'.

Just trying to get the facts straight, Ed ;)

Alright. I am going to try and make this as clear as possible. Joe told me on the phone that the male I was getting would be a homozygous yellow blush thats het for albino. He said that when the yellow blush morph it self is born it looks like an Axanthic and then looks normal when it sheds but has a greenish tint to it. He said thats the only way to tell a yellow blush from a normal. I am not talking about the double recesive gene yellow blush albino. Just the yellow blush morph.

It was not sold to me as just a het albino with nice yellow blushing. It was sold to me as a het albino but he said it is also HOMOZYGOUS yellow blush. albino and yellow blush are 2 different "morphs". When combined you get the yellow blush albino. Well the yellow blush is not Genetic. I have heard from others on this forum and one person in paticular actually called up a well know breeder and asked them because he wasnt sure about them. In the chat room the other night everyone said that yellow blush was not genetic. Anymore questions? just ask and I will be glad to answer them.


-Andre

i saw these two photos on the bottom of the page daniel listed at the top of page 2.

http://www.morphkingreptiles.com/thumbs/yellowblush.jpg

http://www.morphkingreptiles.com/thu...llowblush1.jpg

isn't it obvious that, this is the same snake, in the same position... just with a little photoshop on the colour?

Daniel, I have said more than I should have already, I have been advised not to speak about anything till things are settled. trust me I can go into great detail for you. :)

"Wes thought we had a new line of Axanthics the first time a homozygous (HXIX) snake hatched, but after a few weeks, it went from a greenish grey to a brownish color."

Thats what they said on their website. The HXIX is the yellow blush gene. SO they told me I was getting an homozygous HXIX that was also het for albino.


-Andre

Edit: Wes never put on the end of the story on how they did not prove to be genetic. I will ask the person that told me this to post here and back me up on this. They are a member, but I do not want to get them into this if they don't want to.

Aleesha that's a pretty good observation

http://www.nathanledet.com/yellowblush.jpg

The pics Nate just posted are the yellow blush albino. The combo of the albino gene and the HXIX gene aka the yellow blush gene.


-Andre

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

Aleesha that's a pretty good observation

[/img]http://www.nathanledet.com/yellowblush.jpg[/img]

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Did you get MKR's permission to post those?

By the way, I'd take the one on the left...they are different snakes, right? ;)

Please not, Nate you need the owner's permission to do that - though we do greatly appreciate the fact that you made efforts to not gank bandwidth by hosting them on your own domain.

i do not understand genetics that much, but if you were actually ripped off, im really sorry for the loss of money! i know how that goes...

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Originally Posted by Regal Boids

Alright. I am going to try and make this as clear as possible. Joe told me on the phone that the male I was getting would be a homozygous yellow blush thats het for albino. He said that when the yellow blush morph it self is born it looks like an Axanthic and then looks normal when it sheds but has a greenish tint to it. He said thats the only way to tell a yellow blush from a normal. I am not talking about the double recesive gene yellow blush albino. Just the yellow blush morph.

It was not sold to me as just a het albino with nice yellow blushing. It was sold to me as a het albino but he said it is also HOMOZYGOUS yellow blush. albino and yellow blush are 2 different "morphs". When combined you get the yellow blush albino. Well the yellow blush is not Genetic. I have heard from others on this forum and one person in paticular actually called up a well know breeder and asked them because he wasnt sure about them. In the chat room the other night everyone said that yellow blush was not genetic. Anymore questions? just ask and I will be glad to answer them.


-Andre

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My appologies. removed the img tags

Just another observation about those pictures.....while it seems odd to have two different pics of what is obviously the same snake with different color tones....nowhere on the page does it claim that it's supposed to represent two different snakes, nor the same snake at different stages of growth. Not that I saw, anyhow. So that may just be poor clerical work on their part, rather than trying to claim something that isn't.

I don't think those are the exact same pictures. The snakes' heads are at different angles in both pictures, and whatever it is they are sitting on is also running at a different angle. They definately are the same snakes, though (although they never claimed they were different). Looks to me like they just took two pictures with different camera settings.

...why are the pictures being the same important? what am i missing? ;)

I cant see the pictures for a second time to look at the angles of their heads because i am on a school computer, and they are quite tempermental...but when i saw it, it did look like the same snake. even if they dont claim that they are diffrent snakes, it is still quite suspicious and decieving, dont you think?

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

...why are the pictures being the same important? what am i missing? ;)

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It's not.

I do think it's unwise for MKR to post pics like that. Just another shady thing for people to talk about.

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Originally Posted by Amy1217

I cant see the pictures for a second time to look at the angles of their heads because i am on a school computer, and they are quite tempermental...but when i saw it, it did look like the same snake. even if they dont claim that they are diffrent snakes, it is still quite suspicious and decieving, dont you think?

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They weren't being listed for sale, or claimed as being two different snakes. I agree it is suspicious though. They should stick with posting what they feel is the most accurate representation of a particular animal...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

...why are the pictures being the same important? what am i missing? ;)

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Someone stated that they were the same pictures and that one of them was just photoshopped. Doesn't have anything to do with their genetics, but it does imply that they lie about their animals.

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Originally Posted by RedDevil

Someone stated that they were the same pictures and that one of them was just photoshopped. Doesn't have anything to do with their genetics, but it does imply that they lie about their animals.

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Or it could indicate they lack attention to detail, or have no common sense. ;)

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Originally Posted by sho220

Or it could indicate they lack attention to detail, or have no common sense. ;)

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Which I would completely agree with. :D

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Originally Posted by RedDevil

Which I would completely agree with. :D

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That's a very big club! :D

Judy has a good valid point. There is nothing saying that they are claiming it as 2 different snakes. So I am not trying to make it something that it is not.

I looked a little harder at it and I believe it is the same snake in the same position. I believe it's two different pictures taken one right after the other.

It could also have some minor photoshop effects (turning it and adding/removing color) but i doubt it.

But as we have all said..."pictures don't do justice to the real thing!" I think especially for an albino, it's be hard to capture its real look...photographers take different pictures with different settings of the exact same thing in order to make sure they get the best of the best.

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

But as we have all said..."pictures don't do justice to the real thing!"

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That is soooooo true. Just look at any of the pictures Joe takes.:D

It IS the same snake.........there is a minor flaw on a scale row to show that it is the same snake..........2 different lights used to show differences......that way it narrows people saying "it looked different on your site". I do the same with some of my pics. I will not get too involved, seeing how I know them, however I have some questions:

What is all this really about? Are you saying you did not get the snake you were sold? Are you saying you paid too much for a morph that is really nothing more then a small color difference? If it is HET for albino (normal,blush,whatever) and not visual for whatever else, is that the problem?

I guess I am not understanding the REAL problem. The buyer sets the price, not the seller. If people pay what your asking, then you continue to ask it.

I am not saying that there isnt anything wrong with your transaction.......I would just like to know what is really bothering you about it.

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Originally Posted by Nightmare Creatures

I would just like to know what is really bothering you about it.

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If I read the thread correctly, he is upset b/c he feels he was lied to about the genetics of this animal..meaning, he was told it was het for albino and blush...however, he has since found out that the blush trait is not even a morph, it has not been proven genetic at all, by anyone..... and the seller said he proved it out and so on so forth. And he is upset over paying what he paid after finding out that he could have gotten it cheaper elsewhere.

Am I correct Andre?

Andre, please state your issue with this seller more clearly...

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Daniel, its a fact that the largest producer of ball python morphs in the world, has been calling around looking for mojaves to fill orders.

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:colbert: Ed, it is not a fact until proof has been provided that can be varified..period. If you have proof, then share it so that everyone will know the truth, however, this he said she said business and "annonymity" of the source of this suppose proof you have does not support your claim... please do not make statements such as you have, if you are not willing to back up your statement with proof.

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

:colbert: Ed, it is not a fact until proof has been provided that can be varified..period. If you have proof, then share it so that everyone will know the truth, however, this he said she said business and "annonymity" of the source of this suppose proof you have does not support your claim... please do not make statements such as you have, if you are not willing to back up your statement with proof.

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Just playing devil's advocate, this site isn't the BOI right? So what proof does he need to provide? He made a statement and anyone can choose to believe it or not. Unless I missed something in the TOS...

Thank you Jeanne. I was just not getting that out of what had been posted so far. This thread to me was reading as though he was mad over price vs. animals received. In that he paid more through MKR then he would have elsewhere for the same morph/animal.

Ok, I feel this is the right time to make my PUBLIC apology. I have made many here angry with some comments putting MKR as the protagonist of the industry, boy was I wrong. I have been thinking of NOT EVEN buying from them for a long time because now I see how they are hurting the industry. But something that came to my attention yesterday, made me realize how wrong I was...

I apologize

Nutshell.


He bought what MKR said was a visual blush morph that was also het for albino for $500.

Turns out, MKR gave him a line of BS and this animal was a normal ball that was het for albino.

He overpaid because MKR told him he was getting a visual blush (which does not exist) to get more money for the animal.

One more example of why you cannot trust a used car salesman who decided to try his hand at selling snakes.

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Nutshell.


He bought what MKR said was a visual blush morph that was also het for albino for $500.

Turns out, MKR gave him a line of BS and this animal was a normal ball that was het for albino.

He overpaid because MKR told him he was getting a visual blush (which does not exist) to get more money for the animal.

One more example of why you cannot trust a used car salesman who decided to try his hand at selling snakes.

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What I'm not getting here is how anyone knows if he really got screwed. Where is everyone getting the information that they didn't prove out the yellow blush as a reproducable trait?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Just playing devil's advocate, this site isn't the BOI right? So what proof does he need to provide? He made a statement and anyone can choose to believe it or not. Unless I missed something in the TOS...

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So anyone should be able to state that ANYTHING is FACT on this site? Last time I checked this site was all about distributing correct information not speculation, rumors, and unsupported 'facts'.....or did I miss something?

.....I should quote you the next time someone comes around stating improper care of an animal is ok and people tell them they are wrong....

It is very easy for most people to play devil's advocate all the time......but with a little more work, someone can contribute constructively in order to benefit their community ;)

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Ok, I feel this is the right time to make my PUBLIC apology. I have made many here angry with some comments putting MKR as the protagonist of the industry, boy was I wrong. I have been thinking of NOT EVEN buying from them for a long time because now I see how they are hurting the industry. But something that came to my attention yesterday, made me realize how wrong I was...

I apologize

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care to share what it was?

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Originally Posted by RedDevil

Where is everyone getting the information that they didn't prove out the yellow blush as a reproducable trait?

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Thats what I was trying to figure out. Andre, please clarify what is going on.