Back to Basics ...

... or am I going mad?

BP temperatures - my temperatures inside my BPs viv are 82 cool end and 92 hot end - these are inside the hide temps. Am I cooking my snake??

I've double-checked caresheets etc and they all seem to say basically the same thing - cool end 75-80 (never less than 75) and hot end at 90.

But twice now I've got told by loads of people on another well-known forum (when I try and help someone else and suggest that their temps need upping) that I am completely wrong and they should only be kept in the 80s!!

The first time I just didn't go back to the BP part of the forum - but I looked today and what I see is someone being told to keep their (non-eating) BP at "about 80 degrees" in the warm end!! What I hate to see is someone getting the wrong advice and their snake may die.

Well I guess this is a bit of a rant in a way - but I just wanted to talk to BP experts :)

I've always been told to keep the temps at exactly what you have them at. 82-84 cool side and 92-94 hot side.

Your temps are perfectly fine! 82-84 and 92-94. Rock on!

LOL I know *exactly* what forum you're talking about. I just want to go there and SCREAM b/c there is a lot of very bad advice being given, and animals are suffering. Even the caresheet there has the almost correct temperatures on it!

I think some people are getting the words Boa and python confused over there...

as much as they will *swear* you are COOKING you're snake, you're dead on with your temps. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adizziedoll

LOL I know *exactly* what forum you're talking about. I just want to go there and SCREAM b/c there is a lot of very bad advice being given, and animals are suffering. Even the caresheet there has the almost correct temperatures on it!

I think some people are getting the words Boa and python confused over there...

as much as they will *swear* you are COOKING you're snake, you're dead on with your temps. :)

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I would LOVE to know what forum it is..I might want to start a little trouble :)

Thank you, guys! I wanted to see it in black and white from people rather than caresheets - though I knew I was right. (Jamie - check your PM)

LIke I said, it has happened before over there and I didn't reply back the first time but this time I've sent another message to them (quoting their own caresheet).

You're right - I feel like screaming at them - they really pi$$ me off when it comes to their BP views - especially the person who first piped up and said it was too hot - she doesn't even own a BP!!!!

Come to think of it - they probably don't listen to what I say because I very rarely post on any forum over there except for monitors - so I'm not one of the "well-known" names - I only tend to post if I am sure of the answer or have something definite to say.

Yours in pi$$ed off mode

~Sue

I didn't realize that was the site you were referring to. They are well known as purveyors of misinformation and flat out lies. They better lay off the Kool-Aid that is being server over there. Stick with ball-pythons.net for the straight dope.

Oh well I guess I've been keeping my happy, well fed, shedding just fine, pooping/urating regularily and growing like bad weeds Ball Pythons all wrong all this time!!!!! LOL I must now run and drop those temps....NOT!

Don't worry about it Sue, your temps are fine, your husbandry is bang on and your snake is I assume doing just fine. There's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of folks that think a keyboard makes them an instant expert.

The problem is that their "experts" over there consist of a guy who calls himself Julius Squeezer, says he has been keeping snakes for 33 years (I don't believe he has a single BP) and is the head zealot in their non live feeding agenda. Highlights from his drivel:

1. Live feeding is a horrible thing to do and can't be done safely
2. Ball Pythons DONT get RIs (he hasn't heard of a BP getting an RI in 33 years of keeping snakes)
3. Ball Pythons should be kept at temps not exceeding the 80s (90s will cook your snake)
4. He diagnoses snake problems as 100% fact without ever seeing the snake

Scary stuff folks...

Hmmmm, I know which one you're talking about now. I was thinking of another well known one as well, where I've read them tell people to keep the warm side in the 80's.

So we know how they roll over at rtb.net. They deleted all my posts and banned me. I'm so sad :) . I disagreed with the "head purveyor of inaccuracies" and that apparently is unacceptable. Wow..

Yes - they are a totally unaccepting community - if that one person deems anything to be "wrong" - they all assume the same - sheep ...!!!

I really can't be bothered with that place any more - I only went there for the monitor forum TBH and the one person there that had any multiple-monitor experience very rarely posts - so, a waste of time. I've now deleted them from my favorites - if I can't do anything, I'd rather not know for my own peace of mind. I feel sorry for the snakes and the owners that know no better but want to learn - their snakes aren't going to get better there - like I said in my original post - if a snake is not hot enough to digest its food - it isn't going to eat.

Sorry you feel that way Raz. You seemed like a nice person. We hate to loose you there.

I did not come here to return the favor to JGlass who saw fit to troll our site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. No one banned you Mr Glass, You got yourself banned.

Anyway...I'd like to shed a little light on where I'm coming from with these ball python temps.

Ball pythons don't dig heat. They hate it. GO to Africa and find me one ever laying out in the sun. They don't do it. They avoid the heat by going into cool underground burrows whenever possible and coming out at night. If they can't get to a burrow and there is some shade hanging over the water, you might find them cooling off that way if they can find such a spot where they can avoid predation. ANYWAY...

YES! ALL the caresheets say 90s to mid 80s. The reason they all say that is because back in the caveman days of the reptile pettrade, someone wrote that on a caresheet by assuming that if it's hot where they live, it needs to be hot in the cage. Ball pythons can survive quite well in a great variety of conditions so it didn't kill them so it must be right...so the regurgitation began and spread to what it is now. Outdated and wrong.

This very line of thinking btw is what made keeping emeralds alive near impossible until recent years. Dr Henderson finally climbed some trees in South America and recorded the temps and humidity up where the snakes were. While it was in the 90s down on the ground, up in the trees under the shade of the canopy where it was humid and acbreezy cool low 80s...all of a sudden, we can keep emeralds alive. If ball pythons weren't so resiliant and forgiving, we would be having the same issues with them. Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

The earth wasn't flat before Christopher Columbus proved it was round. He just showed people that sometimes what we all grow up hearing and accepting...may need a little tweek of reality and updating now and then.

Give it a try. It's not going to kill your ball pythons if they don't have a 94 basking spot for a week. Turn it down to 85 and let the cool side drop into the high 70s. You will notice they still stay on the cool side most of the time but will go bask...thermoregulation is a good thing :) Staying in one spot all the time because they have to avoid being baked is a bad thing. Try it. :) It's not like I've got some plot going to kill everybody's ball pythons. The people that defended my views on this at RTB only did so because I convinced them to try it and what do you know? Their nonfeeding ball pythons are now all worry free and doing great. Why? overheating them kills their gut flora (beneficial bacteria needed to digest food) If that goes and add a little stress..they ain't eating. Once that's all corrected, ball pythons are among the least of worries on feeding day, year around. I haven't had a ball python in my care skip a single meal in YEARS after being kept at proper temps for a couple of weeks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Sorry you feel that way Raz. You seemed like a nice person. We hate to loose you there.

I did not come here to return the favor to JGlass who saw fit to troll our site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. No one banned you Mr Glass, You got yourself banned.

Anyway...I'd like to shed a little light on where I'm coming from with these ball python temps.

Ball pythons don't dig heat. They hate it. GO to Africa and find me one ever laying out in the sun. They don't do it. They avoid the heat by going into cool underground burrows whenever possible and coming out at night. If they can't get to a burrow and there is some shade hanging over the water, you might find them cooling off that way if they can find such a spot where they can avoid predation. ANYWAY...

YES! ALL the caresheets say 90s to mid 80s. The reason they all say that is because back in the caveman days of the reptile pettrade, someone wrote that on a caresheet by assuming that if it's hot where they live, it needs to be hot in the cage. Ball pythons can survive quite well in a great variety of conditions so it didn't kill them so it must be right...so the regurgitation began and spread to what it is now. Outdated and wrong.

This very line of thinking btw is what made keeping emeralds alive near impossible until recent years. Dr Henderson finally climbed some trees in South America and recorded the temps and humidity up where the snakes were. While it was in the 90s down on the ground, up in the trees under the shade of the canopy where it was humid and acbreezy cool low 80s...all of a sudden, we can keep emeralds alive. If ball pythons weren't so resiliant and forgiving, we would be having the same issues with them. Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

The earth wasn't flat before Christopher Columbus proved it was round. He just showed people that sometimes what we all grow up hearing and accepting...may need a little tweek of reality and updating now and then.

Give it a try. It's not going to kill your ball pythons if they don't have a 94 basking spot for a week. Turn it down to 85 and let the cool side drop into the high 70s. You will notice they still stay on the cool side most of the time but will go bask...thermoregulation is a good thing :) Staying in one spot all the time because they have to avoid being baked is a bad thing. Try it. :) It's not like I've got some plot going to kill everybody's ball pythons. The people that defended my views on this at RTB only did so because I convinced them to try it and what do you know? Their nonfeeding ball pythons are now all worry free and doing great. Why? overheating them kills their gut flora (beneficial bacteria needed to digest food) If that goes and add a little stress..they ain't eating. Once that's all corrected, ball pythons are among the least of worries on feeding day, year around. I haven't had a ball python in my care skip a single meal in YEARS after being kept at proper temps for a couple of weeks.

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Drivel best kept on your forum I think. I tried to make valid points over there but unfortunately the zealots believe what they want to. The Kool-Aid must be REALLY tasty!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Sorry you feel that way Raz. You seemed like a nice person. We hate to loose you there.

I did not come here to return the favor to JGlass who saw fit to troll our site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. No one banned you Mr Glass, You got yourself banned.

Anyway...I'd like to shed a little light on where I'm coming from with these ball python temps.

Ball pythons don't dig heat. They hate it. GO to Africa and find me one ever laying out in the sun. They don't do it. They avoid the heat by going into cool underground burrows whenever possible and coming out at night. If they can't get to a burrow and there is some shade hanging over the water, you might find them cooling off that way if they can find such a spot where they can avoid predation. ANYWAY...

YES! ALL the caresheets say 90s to mid 80s. The reason they all say that is because back in the caveman days of the reptile pettrade, someone wrote that on a caresheet by assuming that if it's hot where they live, it needs to be hot in the cage. Ball pythons can survive quite well in a great variety of conditions so it didn't kill them so it must be right...so the regurgitation began and spread to what it is now. Outdated and wrong.

This very line of thinking btw is what made keeping emeralds alive near impossible until recent years. Dr Henderson finally climbed some trees in South America and recorded the temps and humidity up where the snakes were. While it was in the 90s down on the ground, up in the trees under the shade of the canopy where it was humid and acbreezy cool low 80s...all of a sudden, we can keep emeralds alive. If ball pythons weren't so resiliant and forgiving, we would be having the same issues with them. Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

The earth wasn't flat before Christopher Columbus proved it was round. He just showed people that sometimes what we all grow up hearing and accepting...may need a little tweek of reality and updating now and then.

Give it a try. It's not going to kill your ball pythons if they don't have a 94 basking spot for a week. Turn it down to 85 and let the cool side drop into the high 70s. You will notice they still stay on the cool side most of the time but will go bask...thermoregulation is a good thing :) Staying in one spot all the time because they have to avoid being baked is a bad thing. Try it. :) It's not like I've got some plot going to kill everybody's ball pythons. The people that defended my views on this at RTB only did so because I convinced them to try it and what do you know? Their nonfeeding ball pythons are now all worry free and doing great. Why? overheating them kills their gut flora (beneficial bacteria needed to digest food) If that goes and add a little stress..they ain't eating. Once that's all corrected, ball pythons are among the least of worries on feeding day, year around. I haven't had a ball python in my care skip a single meal in YEARS after being kept at proper temps for a couple of weeks.

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BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! All I see coming out of your mouth once again(not just RTB I see) is "I'm a mean old grumpy man!!!"

Brett, I really don't want to argue with you, you helped me once when I had an issue with my hoggy having a probiotic - and that was really appreciated.

Like I said, I was concerned when the person posting originally said her snake wasn't eating (I wasn't worried about the yawning) and she said her warm side was "about" 80 degrees (she thought) I suppose I should also have asked if she used a digital thermometer. My first thought was "it isn't hot enough for a BP to digest its meal".

The first person to tell me I was talking crap doesn't even own a BP. On an earlier posting about a month or two ago when I suggested to somebody they upped their temps somebody else said low 80s is optimum for a BP. It's against all the research I did when I first ever had my BP. As for my BP, apart from the first week when she was settling in, my temps haven't moved and she has eaten every meal I've given her and sheds beautifully and is in good strong body shape.

Like I said, I hesitate with this post because you've been kind enough to help me with that issue in the past - but I am truly concerned about this temp business.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

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What is the temp in said dirt hole?

Pork...still bitter about being banned I see :) Ol Porky here felt a need to answer all the help posts whether he knew what he was talking about or didn't...while it's easy I guess for someone who regurges information and who has no experience of his own to draw from to mistake mineral spirts and mineral oil...advising someone to feed a snake that wasn't even really constipated in the first place, paint thinner was beyond reckless and dangerous and typical of pseudoexperts driveling out advice based on things they read but have no idea what they are talking about. You were told to stop giving advice. You were welcome to chat and stay and learn...but you just had to keep trying to help...so you had to go. One day you will understand why. It's funny because your ban was about to expire and I was going to email you and invite you back with conditions. Suddenly I don't feel the urge anymore.

Raz...80 for a hot spot is too cool. 4 or 5 degrees makes a huge difference to a cold blooded animal. So it's no shock that your snake is doing better...but be honest. How much time is that snake spending in that 90 degree basking area? Just take some time and moniter and make adjustments till you find a happy medium somewhere where the snake uses more than just the coolest side of the cage and you will have a trouble free pet.

Doesn't anyone else wonder why we have as a community become so accepting that ball pythons "just go off feed" for long stretches? Like it's normal? If set up properly with cooler temps, I promise you, a ball python is as reliable a feeder as any other snake on the planet...even wild caught ones once you get them destressed and dewormed are NO problem.

Try this...does anyone have a really big cage empty...like a 6 footer that they can put an adult ball python in? Set it up with a huge gradient with a 92 degree basking spot on one end, an 85 degree basking spot in the middle and a cool 78 degree cool spot and put plenty of hides and multiple water bowls so that the snake feels secure anywhere it wants to go and let the snake decide. I did this several times over a 2 year period with several ball pythons except I never let anything get over 90....None of them ever bothered with the 90 degree area even for a little while. They seek out the cool spot and hang out there. They bask for a little while in the mid 80s after they eat sometimes but sometimes they didn't even do that. One thing that was consistant though...they ate. Most of them put burms to shame with their feeding reponse. WATCH your snakes! Having a 94 degree hot spot is pointless if they don't go there. If your snake is staying on the cool side all the time...and if you have a 94 degree basking area...i KNOW they are, you have limited your cold blooded animal that needs to thermoregulate to a single temp range that it can use. Do I blame you guys? No...I don't. Caresheets always seem like a good place to start. But the caresheets are wrong. It's been and is being documented over and over again by way too many people for it to be a fluke. I have never had even a single complaint where someone tried it and things didn't get better. If the success rate is anything less than 100% I would be shocked. It's time to rethink and revise the blasted outdated care sheets...ALL of them :) For those of you breeding that might take my advice and try it...please remember that gravid females need to bask at about 90 degrees.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Pork...still bitter about being banned I see :) Ol Porky here felt a need to answer all the help posts whether he knew what he was talking about or didn't...while it's easy I guess for someone who regurges information and who has no experience of his own to draw from to mistake mineral spirts and mineral oil...advising someone to feed a snake that wasn't even really constipated in the first place, paint thinner was beyond reckless and dangerous and typical of pseudoexperts driveling out advice based on things they read but have no idea what they are talking about. You were told to stop giving advice. You were welcome to chat and stay and learn...but you just had to keep trying to help...so you had to go. One day you will understand why. It's funny because your ban was about to expire and I was going to email you and invite you back with conditions. Suddenly I don't feel the urge anymore.

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Thanks for the off topic flame. I need that for today! I wouldn't want to come back either way, if we didn't agree with the "respected" members oppinions then we were wrong.... How sad and hard headed? Well I feel like hearing a bit more about you journeys down those dirt holes so I'll stop now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Sorry you feel that way Raz. You seemed like a nice person. We hate to loose you there.

I did not come here to return the favor to JGlass who saw fit to troll our site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. No one banned you Mr Glass, You got yourself banned.

Anyway...I'd like to shed a little light on where I'm coming from with these ball python temps.

Ball pythons don't dig heat. They hate it. GO to Africa and find me one ever laying out in the sun. They don't do it. They avoid the heat by going into cool underground burrows whenever possible and coming out at night. If they can't get to a burrow and there is some shade hanging over the water, you might find them cooling off that way if they can find such a spot where they can avoid predation. ANYWAY...

YES! ALL the caresheets say 90s to mid 80s. The reason they all say that is because back in the caveman days of the reptile pettrade, someone wrote that on a caresheet by assuming that if it's hot where they live, it needs to be hot in the cage. Ball pythons can survive quite well in a great variety of conditions so it didn't kill them so it must be right...so the regurgitation began and spread to what it is now. Outdated and wrong.

This very line of thinking btw is what made keeping emeralds alive near impossible until recent years. Dr Henderson finally climbed some trees in South America and recorded the temps and humidity up where the snakes were. While it was in the 90s down on the ground, up in the trees under the shade of the canopy where it was humid and acbreezy cool low 80s...all of a sudden, we can keep emeralds alive. If ball pythons weren't so resiliant and forgiving, we would be having the same issues with them. Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

The earth wasn't flat before Christopher Columbus proved it was round. He just showed people that sometimes what we all grow up hearing and accepting...may need a little tweek of reality and updating now and then.

Give it a try. It's not going to kill your ball pythons if they don't have a 94 basking spot for a week. Turn it down to 85 and let the cool side drop into the high 70s. You will notice they still stay on the cool side most of the time but will go bask...thermoregulation is a good thing :) Staying in one spot all the time because they have to avoid being baked is a bad thing. Try it. :) It's not like I've got some plot going to kill everybody's ball pythons. The people that defended my views on this at RTB only did so because I convinced them to try it and what do you know? Their nonfeeding ball pythons are now all worry free and doing great. Why? overheating them kills their gut flora (beneficial bacteria needed to digest food) If that goes and add a little stress..they ain't eating. Once that's all corrected, ball pythons are among the least of worries on feeding day, year around. I haven't had a ball python in my care skip a single meal in YEARS after being kept at proper temps for a couple of weeks.

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Quote:

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Pork...still bitter about being banned I see :) Ol Porky here felt a need to answer all the help posts whether he knew what he was talking about or didn't...while it's easy I guess for someone who regurges information and who has no experience of his own to draw from to mistake mineral spirts and mineral oil...advising someone to feed a snake that wasn't even really constipated in the first place, paint thinner was beyond reckless and dangerous and typical of pseudoexperts driveling out advice based on things they read but have no idea what they are talking about. You were told to stop giving advice. You were welcome to chat and stay and learn...but you just had to keep trying to help...so you had to go. One day you will understand why. It's funny because your ban was about to expire and I was going to email you and invite you back with conditions. Suddenly I don't feel the urge anymore.

Raz...80 for a hot spot is too cool. 4 or 5 degrees makes a huge difference to a cold blooded animal. So it's no shock that your snake is doing better...but be honest. How much time is that snake spending in that 90 degree basking area? Just take some time and moniter and make adjustments till you find a happy medium somewhere where the snake uses more than just the coolest side of the cage and you will have a trouble free pet.

Doesn't anyone else wonder why we have as a community become so accepting that ball pythons "just go off feed" for long stretches? Like it's normal? If set up properly with cooler temps, I promise you, a ball python is as reliable a feeder as any other snake on the planet...even wild caught ones once you get them destressed and dewormed are NO problem.

Try this...does anyone have a really big cage empty...like a 6 footer that they can put an adult ball python in? Set it up with a huge gradient with a 92 degree basking spot on one end, an 85 degree basking spot in the middle and a cool 78 degree cool spot and put plenty of hides and multiple water bowls so that the snake feels secure anywhere it wants to go and let the snake decide. I did this several times over a 2 year period with several ball pythons except I never let anything get over 90....None of them ever bothered with the 90 degree area even for a little while. They seek out the cool spot and hang out there. They bask for a little while in the mid 80s after they eat sometimes but sometimes they didn't even do that. One thing that was consistant though...they ate. Most of them put burms to shame with their feeding reponse. WATCH your snakes! Having a 94 degree hot spot is pointless if they don't go there. If your snake is staying on the cool side all the time...and if you have a 94 degree basking area...i KNOW they are, you have limited your cold blooded animal that needs to thermoregulate to a single temp range that it can use. Do I blame you guys? No...I don't. Caresheets always seem like a good place to start. But the caresheets are wrong. It's been and is being documented over and over again by way too many people for it to be a fluke. I have never had even a single complaint where someone tried it and things didn't get better. If the success rate is anything less than 100% I would be shocked. It's time to rethink and revise the blasted outdated care sheets...ALL of them :) For those of you breeding that might take my advice and try it...please remember that gravid females need to bask at about 90 degrees.

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can you PLEASE keep this on rtb.net? i dont see why you feel the need to call porkchops n gravy bitter and saying that Jamie saw fit to troll your site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. we dont need this stuff on this forum.

i relize that everyone has an oppinion but please dont try to push it on us and call our members names.

no arguing/fighting intended by me so peace.

HEADS UP TO ANY NEWBIE'S READING THIS:

If NERD and RDR and the Barkers (VPI) whom all make thier living breeding ball pythons say that ball pythons benefit from a 82-84 to 92-94 gradient, why on earth would you believe some random dude someone saying that cooler temps actually benefit ball pythons.

Ball Pythons like higher temps. No offense intended Julius, but welcome to 2006. Seriously.

-Brad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

HEADS UP TO ANY NEWBIE'S READING THIS:

If NERD and RDR and the Barkers (VPI) whom all make thier living breeding ball pythons say that ball pythons benefit from a 82-84 to 92-94 gradient, why on earth would you believe someone saying that cooler temps actually benefit ball pythons.

Ball Pythons like higher temps. No offense intended Julius, but welcome to 2006. Seriously.

-Brad

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lol
~~CLAPS HANDS~~

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

HEADS UP TO ANY NEWBIE'S READING THIS:

If NERD and RDR and the Barkers (VPI) whom all make thier living breeding ball pythons say that ball pythons benefit from a 82-84 to 92-94 gradient, why on earth would you believe some random dude someone saying that cooler temps actually benefit ball pythons.

Ball Pythons like higher temps. No offense intended Julius, but welcome to 2006. Seriously.

-Brad

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Speak it brutha! Good to see that the vacation in paradise didn't relax you too much! :) ;) :D

With his wisdom from his vast experience I almost dropped my herpstat for a week just to see what would happen. Two of the snakes then slid their tubs open and smacked me in the face. Good times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

With his wisdom from his vast experience I almost dropped my herpstat for a week just to see what would happen. Two of the snakes then slid their tubs open and smacked me in the face. Good times.

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lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

With his wisdom from his vast experience I almost dropped my herpstat for a week just to see what would happen. Two of the snakes then slid their tubs open and smacked me in the face. Good times.

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Bahaha! See, snakes know what they like. Smart little guys...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

With his wisdom from his vast experience I almost dropped my herpstat for a week just to see what would happen. Two of the snakes then slid their tubs open and smacked me in the face. Good times.

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They have some good right hooks, huh? :fishslap: :bonk: :matrixfig

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

They have some good right hooks, huh? :fishslap: :bonk: :matrixfig

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You were board....

I'm relatively new to ball pythons. I've kept colubrids for years. I have a rack with a thermostat set at 93 degrees and I have 2 ball pythons and 8 various colubrids in that rack. Almost every time I check on my snakes (and that is several times a day) the ball pythons are laying in the warm hide, whether it's feeding day or not. They each have a cool hide as well but rarely use them. I guess all the books written by experts must be wrong as well. Someday I will take a picture of all the books I own about snakes, it's almost obsessive. I think I will continue to keep my temps the way they are. My snakes seem to be doing fine. They are eating, growing, pooping, and shedding and that's all I ask of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

You were board....

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Haha, here's one for you too... :groinkick :partyon: lol

I would advise not to listen to a word comming from someone that says"ball pythons never get RI :rolleyes: .Also its obvious the only reason you joined this forum was to try and slam the members here that DO know the proper temps for ball pythons :cool: .Now everyone get along or i will release one of my killer blood thirsty corn snakes :P . Just so no one is confused who i am speaking to here its JS.

I never said they don't get RI. I'm sure they do. I said I've never seen one with one even after over 20 years and 1000 or so in on rescue over the years. Hot rock burns, infected burns from brush fires (that's how they catch them in africa...burn them out) rat bites, starvation, cat maulings, a fan injury, you name it, I've seen it..and dealt with...except RI. Boas and burms, amazons and emeralds...plenty of RIs..what sucks is dealing with rattlesnakes with RI...I've dealt with plenty of RIs ..just never a ball python...hardy little buggers they are.

I figured someone would pipe in and report how their ball pythons all stay on that 93 degree hotside all the time. That was pretty predictable. Maybe someday you will care more about the animals than being in the hooya crowd and take a peek at the truth.

BTW, just because someone gets in the business of breeding something and selling it doesn't make them the all knowing reptile gods. NERD is an especially bad source for information. That's all I really have to say about that unless someone wants specifics.

Anyway, I didn't come here to pick a fight. I came here because I was being misquoted by some kiddy little net troll that resides here and hoped to shed light on some widespread ignorance. Enjoy your animals....hopefully one day you guys will learn to care for them properly. Peace out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

BTW, just because someone gets in the business of breeding something and selling it doesn't make them the all knowing reptile gods. NERD is an especially bad source for information. That's all I really have to say about that unless someone wants specifics.

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ok, i NEED specifics. :O :giggle: :zerb:

I do what works for me JS. You're not worth talking to. I've met your kind many times before. You are the only one who knows what he's doing. You're a legend in your own mind. How can you tell me that my snakes don't want to be warm when they stay on the warm side? Do they not know what they want? Wouldn't it stand to reason that if they wanted to be cooler they would go to the cool side? Go back to your other forum where you are well known as the resident expert. Here we share ideas and there is no one person with all the answers.

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Raz...80 for a hot spot is too cool. 4 or 5 degrees makes a huge difference to a cold blooded animal. So it's no shock that your snake is doing better...

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The snake in question was the hognose (being kept at optimum hognose temps of course), not the BP. My BP has NEVER had any problems.

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Sorry you feel that way Raz. You seemed like a nice person. We hate to loose you there.

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This really isn't the place to recruit, retain, or promote your site.

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

I did not come here to return the favor to JGlass who saw fit to troll our site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. No one banned you Mr Glass, You got yourself banned.

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Damnit Jamie! Stop yer trollin, why you always gettin yerself in trouble!? lol... But actually, Mr. Big Squeeze, you DID come here to retaliate and defend yourself. Defending is one thing, name calling is another.

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Anyway...I'd like to shed a little light on where I'm coming from with these ball python temps.

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I can hardly wait...

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Ball pythons don't dig heat. They hate it. GO to Africa and find me one ever laying out in the sun. They don't do it.

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How recently were you actually IN Africa, sir? Just wondering if you're speaking from experience... or regurging info as you professed to hate so much.... or maybe you're just making it up....

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

YES! ALL the caresheets say 90s to mid 80s.

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Really?? Cool, they've been updated then? Last year when I was looking around at some of the sites that actually had care sheets, they were VERY outdated. Most said 84 or so on the hot side, and 75 or so on the cool side with night time drops, and all that nonsense.

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

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Ever been to a pit BBQ? Do you think there's a reason people actually cook meat underground? Have you ever lived on the equator, or near it?

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

The earth wasn't flat before Christopher Columbus proved it was round.

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And BP's were not Emerald Boas before several breeders that keep million dollar collections decided through their own trial and error that lead them to keep them at those temps that you say are cooking our snakes and making them so unhappy.

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Give it a try. It's not going to kill your ball pythons if they don't have a 94 basking spot for a week.

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This is about the only thing that you've said that is actually true. It won't kill them. There are many different ways to keep these animals. Hot, cold, cooler, warmer, On/Off Stats, Proportional, Live, F/T, P/K, Maternal Incubation, Manual Incubation, together, separate, loose in your basement, secure in small tight tubs.... But all of the evidence that several people went through before us lead to the "best" and "most beneficial" way to keep these animals... and I haven't heard one thing from any of your posts that supports any of these findings.

In short, here's my thinking....

I have quite a bit of time and money invested in my collection. There is NO ANIMALin my collection that I would "experiment" with. From my most expensive morph, to a normal male.... They're all my kids, they're all special, they're all healthy, they all feed, they all shed normally (with some exceptions) and its not worth it to me to go out on a whim and try to prove someone's agenda for them.

There are many people out there that started keeping BP's long before I even thought about touching a snake, let alone owning one. They've all been through this trial and error for me. They've put the time in and effort so that I don't have to do experimentation at the levels that you're suggesting. Other things that have not been tried yet, on the other hand, I will try. I'll try, and fail... try and succeed. When I have data to support what I'm testing, I'll share it with others so that they don't have to go through the same testing and risk their own collection.

To me, you're just like the people that say that the two snakes they've been keeping together for years are "happy" together... and when people say that there can be horrible problems with keeping multiple snakes together, they dispute it and say their two snakes are living perfectly fine together... and WHAMMO, one of them eats the other one... or one gets sick and infects the other.... or any other host of problems.

Let me ask you this... You suggest to try lowering our temps to make our snakes better eaters... How would it make you feel if even a TENTH of the people reading this thread were to do what you suggest, and even a TENTH of those got a sick snake from it? I'm sure you would deny it was anything that you suggested that caused the illness, but would you want that on your conscience?

Lastly, welcome to BP.Net... We all love a good debate... we also all stand by our members as trusted contributors, and our mods/admins as leadership that knows their place and doesn't over-moderate it's users. The cross-forum bickering agenda has to stop. If you'd like to debate some of your beliefs, so be it.. I'm sure you'll get lots of takers.... but name calling is not required, nor is promoting the forum that specializes in another species all together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Give it a try. It's not going to kill your ball pythons if they don't have a 94 basking spot for a week. Turn it down to 85 and let the cool side drop into the high 70s. You will notice they still stay on the cool side most of the time but will go bask...thermoregulation is a good thing :) Staying in one spot all the time because they have to avoid being baked is a bad thing. Try it. :) It's not like I've got some plot going to kill everybody's ball pythons. The people that defended my views on this at RTB only did so because I convinced them to try it and what do you know? Their nonfeeding ball pythons are now all worry free and doing great. Why? overheating them kills their gut flora (beneficial bacteria needed to digest food) If that goes and add a little stress..they ain't eating. Once that's all corrected, ball pythons are among the least of worries on feeding day, year around. I haven't had a ball python in my care skip a single meal in YEARS after being kept at proper temps for a couple of weeks.

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No thanks! Mine are kept at 92-94 on the warm side, 82-84 on the cool side as recommended by the top ball breeders. Mine thermoregulate, do NOT just hang out on the cool side, spend equal times in both - and guess what? Haven't skipped a meal.

If it's not broke, why should I fix it? In fact, the only one that fasted for me this year was the one in a glass viv that had temps that were closer to the temps that you recommend and he never left his warm side hide. Now that he's in a tub set up with proper temps that I use on all of mine, he's thermoregulating and eating again. Imagine that!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

BTW, just because someone gets in the business of breeding something and selling it doesn't make them the all knowing reptile gods. NERD is an especially bad source for information. That's all I really have to say about that unless someone wants specifics.

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I'm sorry, and you are??? Just because someone runs a forum doesn't make them the all knowing reptile gods either.

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

Damnit Jamie! Stop yer trollin, why you always gettin yerself in trouble!? lol...

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I can't help it! I think I was born under a bridge so it's my destiny...Its funny that JS talks about the hooya crowd (whatever that means). He runs a board where the members hang on his every word whether he is talking about BP temps or the dangers of live feeding. Its kind of sad that people can't form their own opinions and he LOVES that. Its great to be king..of nothing...

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I'm sorry, and you are??? Just because someone runs a forum doesn't make them the all knowing reptile gods either.

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Robin,

You don't know who he is!? For shame woman!! :D

You know, being as new to ball husbandry as I am, and wanting to learn as much as I can, I would readily listen to someone who said my temps were all wrong IF their information proved valid. By that I mean that if my snake were staying in his cool hide all the time, I would definitely think to myself 'wow, this guy is dead on, I should change my temps!'.
However, even as that guy <whom I don't know from Adam, so I have no personal bias against him whatsoever> was posting last night, Trey was in his warm hide even though I had put him in his cool hide an hour before, after his antibiotic shot.

My temps WERE cooler before, and Trey ended up not eating and severely underweight. Since setting him up with the warmer temps and higher humidity, he has improved a lot, and I no longer expect him to be dead ever time I check on him.

Oh, and Trey still occasionally basks in the top of his 'tree', close to the heat lamp as well. Not as much as when his temps were too cool, but maybe twice this past week I saw him up there. So to ME, it just seems like things have only improved with the warmer temps. I'm definitely no expert, but I do know improvement when I see it.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I can't help it! I think I was born under a bridge so it's my destiny...Its funny that JS talks about the hooya crowd (whatever that means). He runs a board where the members hang on his every word whether he is talking about BP temps or the dangers of live feeding. Its kind of sad that people can't form their own opinions and he LOVES that. Its great to be king..of nothing...

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LMAO JS is like a dictator over there!! lol

Let's try not to fan the flames of antagonism between sites please - I know there was not much of an effort made initially (oddest use of an olive branch I have yet seen) but there is no reason this needs to devolve.

Some comments are best left to PMs.

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

Some comments are best left to PMs.

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I have a feeling that was directed to silly old me?

I agree with Smulkin if you can not be nice to each other then ignore one another.Now like i said before "Dont make me turn loose one of my blood thirsty anery corns on you people"!!! LOL :fishslap:

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I agree with Smulkin if you can not be nice to each other then ignore one another.Now like i said before "Dont make me turn loose one of my blood thirsty anery corns on you people"!!! LOL :fishslap:

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Send one my way JOE!!!

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Send one my way JOE!!!

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Not from this clutch i am sending out the 12 today.I am keeping a male anery and a female snow from this clutch though for future breeders.I will see what i get out of the clutches come august.Now everyone get along lol.

ok um well i just got my bp like a week ago and i have the temp like currently at 86 warm side and 81 cool side, pus there is a UTH on the warm side, so the temp is probably a little higher under the hide, after reading all of this i am kind of confused as to what i should, over all i think it is silly to argue because i just want to do what is right for my snake, and i just want my snake to be healthy. so does anyone think i should up my temps? i have watched my snake and he seems to stay in between my warm and cool side, and he has eaten already too so that is no problem.

BTW my bp always stays in his warm hide during the day, so i am assuming bps like the heat...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miket10

ok um well i just got my bp like a week ago and i have the temp like currently at 86 warm side and 81 cool side, pus there is a UTH on the warm side, so the temp is probably a little higher under the hide, after reading all of this i am kind of confused as to what i should, over all i think it is silly to argue because i just want to do what is right for my snake, and i just want my snake to be healthy. so does anyone think i should up my temps? i have watched my snake and he seems to stay in between my warm and cool side, and he has eaten already too so that is no problem.

BTW my bp always stays in his warm hide during the day, so i am assuming bps like the heat...

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92-94 on the warm side and 82-84 on the cool. Thinking you know what the temperature is wont cut it. Go to Walmart and pick up a digital thermometer with a probe so you can measure both sides more accurately. Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

92-94 on the warm side and 82-84 on the cool. Thinking you know what the temperature is wont cut it. Go to Walmart and pick up a digital thermometer with a probe so you can measure both sides more accurately. Good luck!

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Yup...what he said. And the best place for that probe is inside the hide on the warm side, so you know exactly what temp your snake is spending so much time in. :)