The $30k ball python morph is back!

Ok, very unlikely it will sell, but that's the asking price for this one. Are you going to get on the scaleless bandwagon when the price drops to a few hundred bucks?

https://i.imgur.com/hmO2YSg.png?1

Probably not!

Most likely not.

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I wouldn't pay a dime over $29K for that beautiful, beautiful, baby!

I like my reptiles with scales.... and less than the price of a car. :rofl:

I’d go scaleless for a few Hundo but not 300 hundos

I’ve looked into scaleless corns which range from like $200 to $1000

I like the line of microscales that NERD has. I probably wont go for either for a long while in hopes of prices being more affordable.

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i really like scaleless morphs, and that absolutely stems from their rarity and not their looks, but i still think they're strikingly beautiful. [emoji4] if i had 30K to toss around i absolutely would purchase a scaleless. alas, am poor.

my first scaleless animal will likely be a Corn.

I hope they dont drop too fast, i just orders a 1.1 and plan to make lots of money!!

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I hope they dont drop too fast, i just orders a 1.1 and plan to make lots of money!!

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Lol why didn’t you buy like fifty of them all at once and get like $20k worth of new racks and stuff and just become a professional reptile breeder? 🤣 I hear that’s the way to do it


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Lol why didn’t you buy like fifty of them all at once and get like $20k worth of new racks and stuff and just become a professional reptile breeder? 🤣 I hear that’s the way to do it

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The ball python boom was fueled by people doing just that - dumping $50k+ of their personal savings into the reptile economy and risking it all on the chance that they'd be able to breed those animals and sell before demand collapsed. Almost all of them are long gone now. Truth be told, it was the mostly the guys at the top who made money.

The bp morph market now is polarized - a small number of mega breeders and 99% of customers who just want a cool looking pet snake for less than a few hundred bucks. I have no idea why anyone would be crazy enough to spend $3k on a BP, no less $30k.

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Lol why didn’t you buy like fifty of them all at once and get like $20k worth of new racks and stuff and just become a professional reptile breeder? 🤣 I hear that’s the way to do it


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I thought about it but the money tree in the back yard isnt quite big enough yet to pick that much :P

They had a 2 for 55k sale, ended up going with that instead lol.


Maybe this should have its own forum but similar to what the people on top are talking about, do morphs sell for big in your city or state?
Here in Alberta, Canada, doesn't matter what kind of rare Morph you got, you're not going to get more than a maximum of $400-500 for any type of snake, cage included. The cheaper the better if you're a breeder. If you invest a lot of money into your snake(s) you'll never profit, breeding Norms is the safer route to go.

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Originally Posted by Hamsnacks

Do morphs sell for big in your city or state?

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Not anymore. The ball python boom is officially over - same as leopard geckos, corn snakes, crested geckos, and bearded dragons. The big guys are shifting their focus to snakes that retail for about $200 because that's what sells. The big money has moved on to hognose snakes and blue tongue skinks!

Though, the high end reptile market is mostly a mirage. Very few $3k+ animals are actually sold for cash. Most are traded.

I'll pay for a scaleless ball python when they drop below $1000 :O LOL

I really love how scaleless texas rat snakes look though! And those are only a couple hundred or so.

A snake without scales? I would have culled it.

Scaleless aren't my cup of tea but if the seller can get $30k for that snake more power to him.

I like to take my snakes outside to get exercise and show them off in my yard when the weather is warm. I'd be worried about a scaleless snake injuring itself on something.

Aint no one paying 30k for that crap. Just like all of these Sunset for 20k crap aint selling either. If you go look up Sunset, its the same 5 guys blowing up each other making it seem like there is interest. Coral Glow sells, Black Pastel sells and Clown sells... Scaleless and Sunset are intrigue animals. They bring interest but nothing else.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

Aint no one paying 30k for that crap. Just like all of these Sunset for 20k crap aint selling either. If you go look up Sunset, its the same 5 guys blowing up each other making it seem like there is interest. Coral Glow sells, Black Pastel sells and Clown sells... Scaleless and Sunset are intrigue animals. They bring interest but nothing else.

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I think it is like any other fad. Time shifts and prices fall. I chose the snakes I have because I like their features and genetics. I keep them because I love them. I would never pay over 2k for any of them if that was the price. I would pay vet bills to care for them though. That is part of owning and caring for them.

I can 1000000% guarantee I will not be adding scaleless to my collection...ever.
I honestly don't understand the point. What next, procreating for skinless babies?? Yeah I'm all set.

I obviously understand selective breeding for different morphs, it's simply aesthetically pleasing to see some of the beautiful patterns, colors, etc.... but why screw with their structural makeup?? I have heard the argument that captive snakes don't "need" scales for protection, but seriously, the scales serve a purpose so leave them there, where they belong...

Anyway, different strokes for different folks...that's just my two cents on scaleless...

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I can 1000000% guarantee I will not be adding scaleless to my collection...ever.
I honestly don't understand the point. What next, procreating for skinless babies?? Yeah I'm all set.

I obviously understand selective breeding for different morphs, it's simply aesthetically pleasing to see some of the beautiful patterns, colors, etc.... but why screw with their structural makeup?? I have heard the argument that captive snakes don't "need" scales for protection, but seriously, the scales serve a purpose so leave them there, where they belong...

Anyway, different strokes for different folks...that's just my two cents on scaleless...

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I am sure as those snakes age people will figure out that snakes scales do a lot more for them than look pretty.

Snakes+Scales=Me Happy. Lmao!

Scale less snake? Not for me and especially at that price. Even if the price was the same as a normal BP I would choose the normal. So what will the next generation of BP mutations bring? Ball Pythons with feathers?

To each their own. Scaleless are not for me.

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Originally Posted by Momokahn

So what will the next generation of BP mutations bring? Ball Pythons with feathers?

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AKA - the Rise of Quetzalcoatl!

A bp with feathers I might actually buy. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Momokahn

So what will the next generation of BP mutations bring? Ball Pythons with feathers?

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I think DNA modification is the future. Piling genes on top of more genes is a game of diminishing returns. A bioluminescent BP could be a real money maker. I know some people won't like it, but they said the same thing about those fish too. Now they're in every pet store in the country.

https://i.imgur.com/RN5QwzQ.png

Scaleless? sure. $30,000? no. Its kinda funny to me cause this reminds me of banana/cg just a few years ago. It was $30,000 had a lot of haters but as the price went down it started to catch on and now a lot of people seem to like or just love banana/cg. Now obviously scaleless is a different ball park compared to nana/cg BUT I bet when the price drops to just a couple hundred for a single or muti gene scaleless you're gonna see all the people getting them and showing them off here on bp.net.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

Aint no one paying 30k for that crap. Just like all of these Sunset for 20k crap aint selling either. If you go look up Sunset, its the same 5 guys blowing up each other making it seem like there is interest. Coral Glow sells, Black Pastel sells and Clown sells... Scaleless and Sunset are intrigue animals. They bring interest but nothing else.

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Prolly doesn't help that sunset looks like crap with almost any morph but pastel in it either. Lol

Actually, scratch that, older sunset pastels look like crap too, lesser sunset is nice, but I've never seen an adult.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

Aint no one paying 30k for that crap. Just like all of these Sunset for 20k crap aint selling either. If you go look up Sunset, its the same 5 guys blowing up each other making it seem like there is interest. Coral Glow sells, Black Pastel sells and Clown sells... Scaleless and Sunset are intrigue animals. They bring interest but nothing else.

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Why is Sunset considered so valuable? I haven't done any research on this morph, so apologies if it's an obvious answer, but all the Sunset examples I've seen are just so... drab. Scaleless snakes are at least intriguing in the way a hairless cat is intriguing, but not for $30,000 😱

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

Why is Sunset considered so valuable? I haven't done any research on this morph, so apologies if it's an obvious answer, but all the Sunset examples I've seen are just so... drab. Scaleless snakes are at least intriguing in the way a hairless cat is intriguing, but not for $30,000 [emoji33]

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it's a recessive gene (rare/harder to get visual babies), and it's the color. the fading of orange into a deep red up the sides?? incredible! i think it's amazing. seeing one in person is nuts; i saw some at NARBC and photos do not do their color any justice.

of course, this is just my opinion. [emoji14]

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

it's a recessive gene (rare/harder to get visual babies), and it's the color. the fading of orange into a deep red up the sides?? incredible! i think it's amazing. seeing one in person is nuts; i saw some at NARBC and photos do not do their color any justice.

of course, this is just my opinion. [emoji14]

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Yeah, should've figured it was recessive. I saw a few at Tinley, too, just not my cup of tea. :)

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

Yeah, should've figured it was recessive. I saw a few at Tinley, too, just not my cup of tea. :)

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you were at Tinley?? we could have taken selfies together with Justin and made the whole forum jealous!!! [emoji14]

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

you were at Tinley?? we could have taken selfies together with Justin and made the whole forum jealous!!! [emoji14]

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Lol, I'm new to snakes so it was my first time going and it was amazing. Definitely going every time from now on! Do you do the VIP pass? That's what we did because we have kids, and that was a good choice. I couldn't believe how crowded it got.

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

Lol, I'm new to snakes so it was my first time going and it was amazing. Definitely going every time from now on! Do you do the VIP pass? That's what we did because we have kids, and that was a good choice. I couldn't believe how crowded it got.

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i apologize for the digression of the thread:

no i don't do the VIP, but if i had kids there's no way i wouldn't; it gets INSANE in there. when i went back in March i actually had a small anxiety attack due to the masses of people. that one back corner opposite of the entrance is legit scary.

are you going to go in October? that's when you see the high-dollar babies. we can take selfies with Justin then, hahahaha. [emoji6]

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

Why is Sunset considered so valuable?

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Snake prices are weird. They are essentially pulled out of thin air since the market is so fragmented. I guess they figure better to start too high than too low, but maybe got carried away.

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Originally Posted by Ernie Mccracken

Snake prices are weird. They are essentially pulled out of thin air since the market is so fragmented. I guess they figure better to start too high than too low, but maybe got carried away.

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that's just not true; it's supply and demand, as well as the cost of business. someone paid 7.5k each for the first pair of captive bred albinos in the 90s before any industry "boom"; with inflation that's at least 15k EACH for a new recessive today, let alone accounting for the big breeders who ARE willing and able to drop that kind of $krilla PLUS on a possible new morph, without even considering the demand for that animal/gene.

there's also the cost of that gamble on the breeder's part to prove out genes.

the price comes from what people are willing to pay. don't be so naive.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

that's just not true; it's supply and demand, as well as the cost of business. someone paid 7.5k each for the first pair of captive bred albinos in the 90s before any industry "boom;" with inflation that's at least 15k for a new in-demand recessive today, let alone accounting for the big breeders who ARE willing and able to drop that kind of $krilla PLUS on a possible new morph.

there's also the cost of that gamble on the breeder's part for others to own these animals.

the price comes from what people are willing to pay. don't be so naive.

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Sorry, but a handful of breeders colluding to artificially manipulate the price of a morph is not really supply and demand like you are thinking. They just made it up hoping the win the snake lottery, but no one is going to drop that kind of "$krilla," especially the big breeders. They trade with each other, very rarely deal with large amounts of cash.

Extrapolating prices for a new morph today based on what 2 snakes originally sold for decades ago also doesn't work.

It's simple, they are expensive because they are rare... and rare because they are expensive. Lol

Only a handful of people breed them and can afford them, and they don't want to be the first guy to sell the babies for less than the parents cost them. Therefore, they will never become common or affordable untill someone simply gets sick of taking care of all those babies and lowers the price.

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Originally Posted by Ernie Mccracken

Extrapolating prices for a new morph today based on what 2 snakes originally sold for decades ago also doesn't work.

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why not?

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Originally Posted by Ernie Mccracken

Sorry, but a handful of breeders colluding to artificially manipulate the price of a morph is not really supply and demand like you are thinking. They just made it up hoping the win the snake lottery, but no one is going to drop that kind of "$krilla," especially the big breeders. They trade with each other, very rarely deal with large amounts of cash.

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you're trying to say that breeders were manipulating prices of a market before any type of market was even established? you don't think breeders negotiated with the importers on the best price? i have to disagree. importers (well, exporters) set the OG price, not breeders; new morphs aren't just pulled out of thin air.

also, non-big breeders have been buying up het Scaleless like crazy these days; supply and demand!

the albino was the first beep morph - recessive - and a pair sold for ~30K in today's US dollar worth. why is that not a relevant note, especially with Scaleless being the new big deal? someone had to decide those Albinos were worth the $krilla, and put their money where their mouth is. same is true today with new genes: yes breeders usually trade within, but that does not diminish the risk on the investment, nor the cost of raising animals, OR the other breeders who spend their fortune on them. people buy these animals. at that price or p darn close. that's a fact.

would you drop 7k on a new gene imported from Africa from some nobody breeder?? would you trust the price of $100 from them? that's why new morphs stay within reputable and big breeder circles.

breeders rarely choose a realistic price point on these new/rare morphs, and often overprice them specifically to stop tire-kickers and work towards something realistic, but you can't tell me the actual sale price isn't close to what the breeder offers.

people pay those prices, or at least something close. that's just how it is.

Buy this baby....just think of the possibilities....

Scaleless killer blade clowns?....:D

What's up Taylor!? Long time no see!

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Originally Posted by KevinK

Buy this baby....just think of the possibilities....

Scaleless killer blade clowns?....:D

What's up Taylor!? Long time no see!

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THREAD DIGRESSION:

where were you?? i missed you at Tinley. [emoji14]

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

why not?

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Primarily because there is virtually no new money coming for "high end" BP morphs. It's a dead market. Look at this site. 99.9% people have a few pet ball pythons. No one is spending thousands anymore.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

you're trying to say that breeders were manipulating prices of a market before any type of market was even established? you don't think breeders negotiated with the importers on the best price? i have to disagree. importers set the OG price, not breeders; new morphs aren't just pulled out of thin air.

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I'm saying that all the major breeders know and depend on each other. Pricing brand new morphs at anything below ludicrous price is a good way to get ostracized from the group since the perception is that having $30k+ price tags on new stuff somehow elevates the rest of the market strictly from a marketing standpoint. It's not because anyone is actually paying those prices.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

also, non-big breeders have been buying up het Scaleless like crazy these days; supply and demand!

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This is believable. A few years back, a name brand BP breeder told me his actual cash revenue was "only" about $55k that year, almost all from hets because that's all people could afford. All the high end stuff sat unsold or was traded between other breeders, often multiple times.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

the albino was the first beep morph - recessive - and a pair sold for ~30K in today's US dollar worth. why is that not a relevant note, especially with Scaleless being the new big deal? someone had to decide those Albinos were worth the $krilla, and put their money where their mouth is. same is true today with new genes: yes breeders usually trade within, but that does not diminish the risk on the investment, nor the cost of raising animals, OR the other breeders who spend their fortune on them. people buy these animals. at that price or p darn close. that's a fact.

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Yes people USED to do that, but almost all of them lost money and aren't around anymore. People are smarter now and realize it's very difficult to make money in the middle of the market because it's so small. Big breeders aren't buying from little guys (they mostly trade with each other) and the pet crowd doesn't want to spend more than $200.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

would you drop 7k on a new gene imported from Africa from some nobody breeder?? would you trust the price of $100 from them? that's why new morphs stay within reputable and big breeder circles.

breeders rarely choose a realistic price point on these new/rare morphs, and often overprice them specifically to stop tire-kickers and work towards something realistic, but you can't tell me the actual sale price isn't close to what the breeder offers.

people pay those prices, or at least something close. that's just how it is.

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Agree to disagree. I hear whispers of it happening on very rare occasions. I have heard of a few monster $50k orders coming in from Europe since the market there is still less mature, but that's rare and almost no big US deals seem to be happening. If those deals were still going down, I feel like we'd be hearing about them and the mid-tier breeders wouldn't have crashed so hard.

In a nutshell, a random Tinder date (lol) right before Tinley to grab some tacos de asada and a bottle of Corona led to my goofy self dating a very nice lady for the last month or so.... what she sees in a guy with a love affair for large snakes I will never understand :rofl:

SO that's what's been going on for me. I have to post pictures of my Burm ! He has gotten HUGE!

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Originally Posted by Ernie Mccracken

Agree to disagree.

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i appreciate the discussion, and your points are valid, however i just don't think there's some undercover mafia controlling the highly valuable morphs of the beep market. agree to disagree. [emoji4]

not to be a butt, but most of your posts are super sarcastic and unproductive; this was a nice change of pace and i appreciate your informed approach.

Should have realized I just stepped into the middle of a battlefield here. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by KevinK

Should have realized I just stepped into the middle of a battlefield here. :rofl:

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honestly i thought this went well! [emoji3]
PM me if you want to talk more!!!

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Originally Posted by Ernie Mccracken

Primarily because there is virtually no new money coming for "high end" BP morphs. It's a dead market. Look at this site. 99.9% people have a few pet ball pythons. No one is spending thousands anymore.



I'm saying that all the major breeders know and depend on each other. Pricing brand new morphs at anything below ludicrous price is a good way to get ostracized from the group since the perception is that having $30k+ price tags on new stuff somehow elevates the rest of the market strictly from a marketing standpoint. It's not because anyone is actually paying those prices.




This is believable. A few years back, a name brand BP breeder told me his actual cash revenue was "only" about $55k that year, almost all from hets because that's all people could afford. All the high end stuff sat unsold or was traded between other breeders, often multiple times.




Yes people USED to do that, but almost all of them lost money and aren't around anymore. People are smarter now and realize it's very difficult to make money in the middle of the market because it's so small. Big breeders aren't buying from little guys (they mostly trade with each other) and the pet crowd doesn't want to spend more than $200.




Agree to disagree. I hear whispers of it happening on very rare occasions. I have heard of a few monster $50k orders coming in from Europe since the market there is still less mature, but that's rare and almost no big US deals seem to be happening. If those deals were still going down, I feel like we'd be hearing about them and the mid-tier breeders wouldn't have crashed so hard.

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When your talking about $30-$50k sales I can agree, not many are investing that kind of money. But when you talk about nobody spending thousands and only want $200 snakes, that just isn't true. I've personally witnessed dozens of $1000 plus sales happen in the past year or two. Have you not been to the big shows? Every time I go I see a few sales like that and that's just what I've witnessed personally so I'm sure there must be a lot of them happening.

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Originally Posted by Ernie Mccracken

Not anymore. The ball python boom is officially over - same as leopard geckos, corn snakes, crested geckos, and bearded dragons. The big guys are shifting their focus to snakes that retail for about $200 because that's what sells. The big money has moved on to hognose snakes and blue tongue skinks!

Though, the high end reptile market is mostly a mirage. Very few $3k+ animals are actually sold for cash. Most are traded.

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most of you really have no Idea about the market... I always spend 3k+ on my snakes and snakes $1500+ sell better for me than $200 snakes... the reason the price is high is because the demand is HIGH! if the breeders of sunsets set the price to where they sell out right away then that price was too low... you want the price to be at a point that they sell but not too fast...

when I paid 45k for my first Banana every one was telling me the same thing that "high end snakes don't sell they only get traded" that was totally wrong!!! I have done great with that banana made my money back x4 at least... same with the $10,000 GHI, $20,000 Bamboo, $50,000 Scaleless Head... all were great investments!