Finally...

SORRY to all the people i "argued" with on this site, I'm FINALLY pointing in the correct direction because i want at least 1 Pied out this clutch i wanna start in the mating season this year FINALLY got the right equip to help me in my task...



http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psdfss6a8t.jpg

What is the heat bulb for? I know people use heat bulbs when having heating issues but I am not sure how related that is to breeding? Anyway, just remember heating bulbs tend to suck the humidity right out of an enclosure. Are you using a glass enclosure?

didn't know that about the heating bulb, THANKS, it's an enclosure i remade into a nice enclosure.....

don't worry i have it fastened so no escape occurs ANYMORE..!! LOL


http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psipzobhvm.jpg

Yuppie more snake to add to the worst enclosure in the world. I really thank you need to actually Listen to What people have told you.... You can't afford proper housing for one snake and you keep getting more. Racks can be made very cheap and work way better.how exactly do you plan to keep any babies. Do you have an incubator... How about backup money for when one of the snakes get sick......what are you going to do then...... Breeding is not a 123 and done thing my first season was a complet fail with the best of everything not some tv stand that looks like it should be in the trash into a snake tank.. Conditions to breed need to be simulated correctly in order for things to gö right....and ıf it can it will go wrong.......do you have a study supply of live feeders for feeding baby's every 5 days...I'm just trying to inform you on mistakes that I as well as others have made in the past to help you in the future.... Think think think

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

Yuppie more snake to add to the worst enclosure in the world. I really thank you need to actually Listen to What people have told you.... You can't afford proper housing for one snake and you keep getting more. Racks can be made very cheap and work way better.how exactly do you plan to keep any babies. Do you have an incubator... How about backup money for when one of the snakes get sick......what are you going to do then...... Breeding is not a 123 and done thing my first season was a complet fail with the best of everything not some tv stand that looks like it should be in the trash into a snake tank.. Conditions to breed need to be simulated correctly in order for things to gö right....and ıf it can it will go wrong.......do you have a study supply of live feeders for feeding baby's every 5 days...I'm just trying to inform you on mistakes that I as well as others have made in the past to help you in the future.... Think think think

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Woah, WTH. What does a snake rack have to do with breeding? I know people who breed snakes that are in fish tanks. FISH TANKS! You know, the ones meant for fish. But people seem quite okay with that. If there is a piece of furniture that can be reused for some other purpose instead of thrown into a dump drowning the Earth in unnecessary garbage then by all means. I have known so many people that changed pieces of furniture into enclosures and I once saw an ad on kijiji for an enclosure made out of an old TV! There is nothing wrong with it in my opinion and I too almost did it myself. I have a HUGE TV stand/cabinet that we no longer needed as we ended up getting a large flat screen. I didn't want to do it to save money but for the purpose of using a no longer used piece of furniture. And I planned on breeding before I got an incubator. I got enclosures (starting out with FISH TANKS, until I ended up getting more so built my own rack) then I got the snakes, made plans of who to breed to who and as the breeding season grew closer and saved up some money for a really good one, I finally got the incubator. Plus many people prefer to let the mother incubate the eggs. I think your reply to the OP is a little harsh and he/she (sorry not sure what you are) seems to be trying to make the correct choices here. Just because it isn't your way doesn't mean it wont work.

As for the OP... wood is actually better then complete glass in my opinion. I used to use melamine before I got snake racks and it did an awesome job keeping humidity (even with a heat bulb that I use for my boa who is still currently in a melamine cage which btw, most cabinets are made of).I will let you know that tubs are the best option for keeping heat and humidity and are relatively cheap. Just don't stick then together until you are ready to breed okay? I have personally seen canablism in ball pythons. Plus the risk of spreading RIs. One of my BP did get an RI and it cost me $180 at the vet. Sticking two together would cost you $360 and the bill rises with any other BP you place together. Plus, you know what it is like when your sick, not fun. Trying to avoid sickness in your snakes is probably a good idea.

Your set up seems to be just fine as long as you have heating sources. With my melamine I put the heat tape inside on the bottom and covered it with a thin piece of glass. This is mow my boa is housed and he is just fine. You can also use tile for this purpose. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

didn't know that about the heating bulb, THANKS, it's an enclosure i remade into a nice enclosure.....

don't worry i have it fastened so no escape occurs ANYMORE..!! LOL


http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psipzobhvm.jpg

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Is the back of the stand open? It looks like wall paper on that top area.

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Also, how do you plan on getting ANY pieds this season? You said you just picked up a snake that's het for pied. Your other two original snakes are normals that you think are special, but have no reason to know conclusively are het for anything, let alone pied. Everyone has tried to explain both your mistakes in husbandry, and your errors in understanding basic 7th grade level genetic science, and you've failed to grasp either. Not sure why you keep coming back expecting a back pat every time when you ignore every thing anyone on here has told you.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Is the back of the stand open? It looks like wall paper on that top area.

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Lol I was scratching my head saying the same thing. Lol.

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As far as using old peices of furniture to turn into a habitat I really see nothing wrong with it IF its done "properly".. I have a big old console t.v from the 80's in my basement I was thinking of turning into a cool looking viv for one of my guys...if you gut it and seal it so it doesn't mold and holds humidity and temps the right way who's to say it's a crap idea...not everyone can afford a 5 gene ball python and a " boaphile" cage...doesn't mean that there passion for the reptile community isn't as big as the persons who can afford all the top quality gadgets... I say if the snake is safe,happy,healthy..then don't listen to what others say..I think specially this day in age its a pretty green thing to do also..alot of cool things you can turn into vivs...heck you keep it up animal planet might give you a show of your own.. Kinda like tanked for the fishes... Lol.

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Are there even hides in there?

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

SORRY to all the people i "argued" with on this site, I'm FINALLY pointing in the correct direction because i want at least 1 Pied out this clutch i wanna start in the mating season this year FINALLY got the right equip to help me in my task...

Apology accepted. Keep your passion for what you want alive, that is really whats important. You will never stop learning and researching in this hobby/ industry. Good luck! :)

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psdfss6a8t.jpg

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All I was trying to do is APOLIGIZE for my mistakes on this site, NOT all the negative I'm getting from some.... New snake in my life and I'm HAPPY and wanted to share with yall but to NO avail the NEG comes out from people that's NOT me and are NOT living my life, so keep that to YOURSELVES....

It doesn't look like you have any hides in those enclosures... You really should look into putting some in. Just a cheap plastic flower pot bottom with an opening cut into it will work, but if they don't have anywhere to hide and really feel secure they'll be stressed. If you want to breed, you don't want stressed snakes. That can lead to them refusing to breed or complications once the female is gravid. Fake plants like what you can get from walmart laying on the floor of the cage make the snakes feel safer as well.

Also, your third snake is het pied right? Your others are normals. Lizardlicks already mentioned this, but there is NO WAY for you to get pied by breeding a het pied with a normal. ALL of the babies from that litter will be normals; that is 100% certain. Of those babies, only half will be het pied like the parent, and there is no way to tell which ones have this gene just by looking at them. To get a pied, you'd have to take one of the het pied babies (keep in mind you won't be able to tell which babies are and are not het pied), raise it, and breed it back to the het pied parent. If you did that, 25% of the babies from that litter would be pied, 50% would be het pied but look normal, and 25% would be completely normal (and again you won't be able to tell which are het pied and which are normal).
I just wanted to reiterate this, because I don't think you'd want to be stuck with a litter of babies that you can't sell (As the market is, a possible het pied is going to basically be treated as a normal, so the max you'd get would be $40-60 for one. Plus, most people who are buying normals are getting them from pet stores and not really looking at private breeders).

Not trying to be a buzzkill, but it's just genetically impossible to get what you're hoping for by pairing those snakes together.

EDIT: I didn't realize your new snake was a pastel. The genetic stuff I said is still the same, but 50% of the babies should be pastel and 50% normal looking. Still no chance for pieds though.

ALL I'm asking for is POSITIVE feedback when a person might or is doing wrong in this case, my female gotta be HET something, all white till it gets to her exit area.. So that's why I feel the way I do about breeding her to my new addition....

It just gota be het it has to be for something...........people have and are activly trying to help you........but you have to open your eyes and want to actually learn or people give up have fun trying to sell normals and pastels if you get that far

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

ALL I'm asking for is POSITIVE feedback when a person might or is doing wrong in this case, my female gotta be HET something, all white till it gets to her exit area.. So that's why I feel the way I do about breeding her to my new addition....

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Your female looks like a normal to me, but even if she is het for something, that won't get you a pied. You might end up with babies that have patterning or belly spots similar to hers, but they'd still have to be sold as either normal or pastel 50% het pied. Being het for something else, those genes just won't connect up with the pied genes from your male. To get a pied the baby has to get a copy of the EXACT same gene from both parents.

I'm not going to tell you to breed or not to breed, that's all up to you, just saying what you're going to be looking at if you do breed them. Also, I saw the pics of the pied male. Very cute little guy.

If you did not purchase your animals as being marketed as het for a SPECIFIC recessive gene, it doesn't matter how fancy you think their butts are, you more than likely have a NORMAL. Clean normals happen, that is a thing you know. And even if it IS het for SOMEthing, you can't just pick a het of a random morph you want and roll the dice. To get a visual you need to pair like with like. If you want to make pieds, my advice is get another 100% het pied or even better get a visual pied and pair it with you pastel het pied. That way you know for certain what the genetics are, and you KNOW you have a chance to hit a pastel pied (which are killer animals, I love them).

Seriously, if you were trying to make a souffle, you'd look up the recipe and follow it, not just throw in random ingredients then cross your fingers and hope. Breeding for morphs is no different. Put quality in, get quality out. Put in crap and... well. Hope you like turd sandwiches.

Hey, seems like you are missing out on a little bit of information. Let me explain. I am not being negative, I would like you to get the best results out of your pairings and to understand how this works.

In order to get piebald ball pythons you need 2 piebalds. Whether they both are piebald visual, or piebald hets. They are a recessive gene meaning you have to have both to get piebald babies.

Piebald x piebald = piebald
Piebald x normal het piebald = Piebald
Normal het piebald x normal het piebald = piebald
Normal x Normal = Normal
Normal x Normal het pied = normal
Normal x piebald = normal het piebald

It cannot be "het for something". For example, I have a clown ball python which is also recessive and I also have a piebald. If I were to breed my piebald to my clown all the babies would come out looking normal but end up a double het for clown and pied but no, I would not get pied or clowns out of them.

Markers are NEVER a good way to determine whether your snake is het for something. I have a male spider het pied that does not at all have pied markers, but his father was spider 100% het pied while his mother was visual pied. I have a guaranteed 100% het pied. I have a normal that is just a normal female, she does have the "pied markers" but she is not pied at all.

This works with all recessive morphs. I know you are excited to pied out of your pairings, but I am really sorry, you have to have a female and male pied or het pied for it to happen.

Here we go again.....

You purchased a pastel, that's great, at least you are adding some sort of genetics to your collection of NORMAL ball pythons. He may be Het. for Pied, but that female you have is a NORMAL, and will be nothing more than a NORMAL ever, period. You say she looks special, but if you've done any research over the last 4 months of not being on this forum, you will know that NORMAL ball pythons have 100's of different color and pattern variations, but they are still NORMAL.

And for the love of god why do you still have the two that everyone has begged you to separate still together?! Especially in that dingy nasty old TV stand. Has your financial situation improved at all since the last time you posted? Or is "Times still hard"? If that's the case why on earth are you adding another snake to your collection, when you do not have a steady income to care properly for your animals.

When you do finally start to breed in September/October, like when you intend to, you do realize that the 490 gram male you just purchased on July 15th. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...46#post2365346 Will still be underweight, and probably shouldn't be bred out for the sake of his health and well being? And should probably still be in quarantine because September is what? Only a month and a half away? Do you even have a proper quarantine procedure going on? Or are the old snakes right next to the new one? Or do you still just plan on making money, and not care?

I see that you revived an almost 6 year old thread about Het. Pied Markers: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-photo-s/page3. You state that "My female is clear all down her belly until around the EXIT area, she's gotta be a het SOMETHING cuz obviously a clear belly means something, I'm just saying....."

But you do realize that a Het. Pied will normally have an almost railroad track looking black pattern on its sides that will go up on both sides of the animal? If you have a snake with an absolute clear belly, it means that she is not Het for pied, and is a NORMAL. And if there is a small chance that she is het for something you DO NOT and WILL NOT know what it is. It could be Pied, Albino, Axanthic, Clown, the list goes on and on and on.

I'm going to reiterate this for the 100th time, but I feel as though I'm just wasting my breath and time. If you by the grace of god, end up with babies, do you have any good way of housing them? Last time you posted you lived in a small apartment, so what are you going to do if eggs go full term and you end up with 4-8 little babies? Are you going to just throw them all in one cage like you have with your NORMALS? Or are you going dumpster diving again to find another piece of old furniture to turn into a husbandry nightmare of an enclosure?

For those other forum posters who believe I am being too harsh with this poster, here are some of his old threads from a few months back. I urge you to read them, because you will all quickly learn that he just does not listen, or just does not care about the well-being of his animals, and is just plain ignorant.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...22318-Question

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...php?222537-Why

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hat-i-realized

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-New-Enclosure

Original poster, we have tried to help you, multiple times, you refuse to listen to us and you retreat and just call us negative. We may not be the nicest people in the world, but when it comes to the health and well-being of the Ball Pythons that we care so much about, there is no better bank of knowledge then this website, and we are willing to help any and everybody who needs it. You just have to get rid of your ignorance and realize that what you are doing is wrong, and work your ass off (like everyone else here has done) to fix your mistakes before you do something really stupid.

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5a6ed520.jpg
Now she has to be HET something.. And that's the type talk I don't like I care for ball pythons just as much as the next person so how would you feel if someone told you how to raise your kids, my BABIES(ball pythons) is the only type animal that I break bank to maintain just like a person with a BABY so I hear what yall SAY but until you live in my shoes TRY NOT to bring personal thoughts if a person is doing something wrong and also WE DO NOT LIVE IN THE SAME AREA/STATE so temps/humidity matter and I'm working on that...

Hi Echo! Can I just clarify something here, since I keep seeing it pop up in this thread?

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Now she has to be HET something

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This is meant with no disrespect, no drama, and no negativity. :) I just want to get a baseline of your understanding of genetics.

Do you understand what "Het" means?

If you do not, "het" is a term that refers to an animal (in this case we are talking about Bally Pythons) which carries one copy of a gene inside its genetic code, but does not display any part of that gene, because two copies are required in order to make that gene show up. This is called a "Recessive" gene. The recessive gene you are talking about is Piebald, also called Pied.

So, it sounds like you want to breed some Pied babies! :)

In order to breed baby animals that display the Piebald gene, you will need to breed a boy and a girl that each carry a copy of the Piebald gene. If you have a visual Piebald (one that looks like a Pied), that snake has two copies of the gene, and will definitely pass one copy of the gene to each baby it helps make. Now, here is where it gets tricky.

If you have a snake that does not visually display the Pied gene, then you need to know about the genetics of PARENTS the snake in question. Was one if the snake's parents a visual Piebald? If so, you will have a snake that is Het for Piebald - if you breed it, it will give 50% of the babies one copy of the Pied gene, and 50% of the babies no copies of the Pied gene.

If you DO NOT know the genetics of the PARENTS of the snake in question, then you have no way of knowing whether the snake carries any hidden (het) genes, really. It is true, that some het genes will produce "markers", giving clues about which animals in a batch that is KNOWN to have passed on hidden gene, but markers ARE NOT 100% guarantees.

In this case, you are looking at the snake's tail - the belly is white, but the tail has markings on it. This could be a number of things. IF one of the parents of this snake was a visual Pied, and you KNOW that, then it could be an indicator that the snake carries a hidden Pied gene. If you DO NOT know for sure that one of the parents was a visual Pied, then it is actually a bit of a stretch to guess that the gene is there, based on the tail - MANY Normals display exactly the kind of belly/tail you are describing. So if you are not 100% sure of the genetics of the parents of your snake, it is better to assume that the snake is not carrying ANY hidden genes. A snake that does not visually display recessive genes, with unknown parentage, is probably a Normal.

IF you are 100% certain that your snake is Het for Piebald, the only way you can produce visual Piebald babies is to breed it to another snake that you are also 100% sure carries the Piebald gene. Remember the example above: Het for Piebald - if you breed it, it will give 50% of the babies one copy of the Pied gene, and 50% of the babies no copies of the Pied gene. That means, in order to get a visual Pied, you need another snake to pass on one copy of the gene to some of the babies, in order to get two copies into one snake.

Hope this helps clarify everything for you! :) If you decide to move on with your snakery and breeding plans, I wish you the best of luck, and hope you are prepared to deal with the rigors involved!

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Now she has to be HET something.. And that's the type talk I don't like I care for ball pythons just as much as the next person so how would you feel if someone told you how to raise your kids, my BABIES(ball pythons) is the only type animal that I break bank to maintain just like a person with a BABY so I hear what yall SAY but until you live in my shoes TRY NOT to bring personal thoughts if a person is doing something wrong and also WE DO NOT LIVE IN THE SAME AREA/STATE so temps/humidity matter and I'm working on that...

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Dude.......... please quit with all this nonsense already.
#1 She is NOT het anything unless you know DIRECTLY from the breeders mouth what the original pairing was. To prove her to be het you will need to buy a male of EVERY recessive gene, then you will need to breed one male to her two to three seasons and if after 3 years she doesn't prove anything with that male then you will need to try the next, and so on. You are talking a couple hundred 100% babies from the fathers and possibly NOTHING from her. By time you get all the males through her we will all be dead and it wont matter anymore.

#2 You are posting on a public forum, it doesn't really matter what you do or do not care for people to post.

#3 You wouldn't fit in my shoes. Temp and humidity requirements are the same no matter what state or planet you live on. Its your choice if you want your snakes to live or thrive.

I get all what I'm saying from the company that sold me my newbie pastel 100% pied sooooo if I'm not doing what you people are telling means I'm doing this my way like they were still in the wild in AFRICA where non of yall, maybe a select FEW have EVER been I don't like the whole RACK system method, it works but I don't like putting my babies in jail(racks), there are NO rack systems in the WILD..!![emoji6]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Now she has to be HET something.. And that's the type talk I don't like I care for ball pythons just as much as the next person so how would you feel if someone told you how to raise your kids, my BABIES(ball pythons) is the only type animal that I break bank to maintain just like a person with a BABY so I hear what yall SAY but until you live in my shoes TRY NOT to bring personal thoughts if a person is doing something wrong and also WE DO NOT LIVE IN THE SAME AREA/STATE so temps/humidity matter and I'm working on that...

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I'm not going to comment on her having almost no chance of being het for anything, as that's already been covered.... A lot.

As far as the temp/humidity goes, I guarantee you there are people on this forum who live in the same region as you. There are people on here from all over the US and the world, and whether they're in Alaska, Florida, or Turkey they all have to provide the same temp and humidity for their snakes. You say you're working on temps/humidity, but that's not really a fair assessment. When people say they're working on that, it usually means they're taking a day or two to get everything where it needs to be; in your case it's been months.

When it comes to 'breaking the bank' for your pets, that's not something someone gets a gold star for. It's just what you're supposed to do when you have pets. I've eaten nothing but pasta for months so I could pay both vet bills and rent before, and that goes for getting the caging and equipment to give them the proper temps/humidity/food too. If a proper habitat is something you can't afford, then it doesn't make you a bad person, but it does mean you can't afford a pet.

When it comes to how I might feel if someone told me how to raise my 'babies': I'd take their advice. Taking the advice of people who know more than me about my animals has not only helped me become quite knowledgeable about them, but it's a big part of why I currently have several reptiles and amphibians sitting at literally twice their expected lifespan. If someone tells you your kid should be wearing a blue shirt instead of an orange one, that's pointless and you'd have every right to be angry. If someone tells you your kid is playing on train-tracks and you need to go get them out of there, then you should take that advice and be grateful for it. You're not getting 'shirt advice' here, you're getting 'train-track' advice.

EDIT: There are not many re-purposed TV stands inside African termite mounds.

Again?

No money for proper housing.
No idea what decent husbandry even looks like.
No ability to understand why he's wrong.
No thought to how he shouldn't have bought another snake when he can't care for the ones he has.
No understanding of genetics.
No way to incubate any eggs if any ever get produced.
No place to keep any babies.

Really feel bad for the snakes.

Hmmmmmm ok, understood now different states and regions have different temps/humidity levels so the guy I got pastel from lives in NC closer to the equator so his regular weather temps would be hotter than someone in NJ... Now soo many people on this forum are from all over the U.S. so let a NJ person on here tell me some news and I'll take his/her word a lot easier than someone who lives in OHIO or anywhere else..!! Yall seem not to be getting MY point, and that's I'm going to raise(keep) MY snakes the way that best suits ME...[emoji106]🏿[emoji108]🏿...... So what erryyone<--southern accent lol, is telling me is clear bellies DONT mean anything, I craiglisted these two beauties so no kind of breeder news to what type het he/she is cuz he shows some markers also...just a quick question don't get rediculous wit the answers, **putting two gets together would get you what outcome..??**


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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Hmmmmmm ok, understood now different states and regions have different temps/humidity levels so the guy I got pastel from lives in NC closer to the equator so his regular weather temps would be hotter than someone in NJ... Now soo many people on this forum are from all over the U.S. so let a NJ person on here tell me some news and I'll take his/her word a lot easier than someone who lives in OHIO or anywhere else..!! Yall seem not to be getting MY point, and that's I'm going to raise(keep) MY snakes the way that best suits ME...[emoji106]🏿[emoji108]🏿...... So what erryyone<--southern accent lol, is telling me is clear bellies DONT mean anything, I craiglisted these two beauties so no kind of breeder news to what type het he/she is cuz he shows some markers also...just a quick question don't get rediculous wit the answers, **putting two gets together would get you what outcome..??**


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ECecho, your posts are rambling, incoherent, and without logic.
If you don't raise the snakes in the way that suits THEM, they will sicken and die.
Its not about you.
Please do your animals a favor, and re-home them.

It is people like you that dont listen to anyone why people like me rescue snakes like thishttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...b9fea45ac0.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...7dff808fca.jpg everyone here has tried to help u nicely to many times...if u live in alaska you still need to mimic the weather in AFRICA if you live in Wisconsin you need to mimic the weather in AFRICA if you live in Jersey you need to mimic the weather in AFRICA of you live in Florida you need to mimic the weather in AFRICA....must I go on...ball pythons are ball python no matter were you live.in the wild are snakes confined to one enclosure with other snakes? No there not... in all your trips to Africa how many ball pythons did you see in the same termite mound .Go back to school read some books and study gentics. Read some ball python 101 2 or 3 times fix your stuff and then think about breeding. You truly have no idea what it entails to care for and hatch and feed ball pythons . Im all for people breeding but listen to your elders(if you were taught that) that have hundreds and thousands of clutches under there belt and succeed or go about it your way and fail miserably. Cards are in your hands

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Originally Posted by Foxton

Again?

No money for proper housing.
No idea what decent husbandry even looks like.
No ability to understand why he's wrong.
No thought to how he shouldn't have bought another snake when he can't care for the ones he has.
No understanding of genetics.
No way to incubate any eggs if any ever get produced.
No place to keep any babies.

Really feel bad for the snakes.

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I've had these snakes for 5 years and ain't NOTHING happened/s to them and just cuz I don't post it doesn't mean I don't have it, could incubate the eggs if they needed it tomorrow.. OMGoodness I can't wait to prove yall wrong, yall gon be saying oh snap maybe he WAS saying something we didn't understand..!!!!!!


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You know, you can see the general location of a lot of the people who have posted on this thread in the info under their avatar. So you actually have gotten that advice from people living in the same geographical region as you.


EDIT: I'd put the odds of you being able to say that at under .01%... So, statistically negligible. However, I will comment and tell you how cute all your normal babies are if those snakes ever breed.

omg this thread is like a train wreck. (and those other threads too.) we should all move along, but can't stop staring. :rolleyes:

@ECeChoHO - listen to the folks. there's a lot of really good advice here from really experienced folks. some folks who have replied to you are breeders, ecologists, educators, etc. we all love snakes here and want what's best for your snakes too.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

omg this thread is like a train wreck. (and those other threads too.) we should all move along, but can't stop staring. :rolleyes:

@ECeChoHO - listen to the folks. there's a lot of really good advice here from really experienced folks. some folks who have replied to you are breeders, ecologists, educators, etc. we all love snakes here and want what's best for your snakes too.

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This is the most RESPECTFUL post I've gotten from yall on this thread.. Just cuz you came at me CORRECT imma look into this response from Ax01..[emoji108]🏿[emoji108]🏿[emoji108]🏿


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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Now she has to be HET something.. And that's the type talk I don't like I care for ball pythons just as much as the next person so how would you feel if someone told you how to raise your kids, my BABIES(ball pythons) is the only type animal that I break bank to maintain just like a person with a BABY so I hear what yall SAY but until you live in my shoes TRY NOT to bring personal thoughts if a person is doing something wrong and also WE DO NOT LIVE IN THE SAME AREA/STATE so temps/humidity matter and I'm working on that...

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People tell me how to raise my ball pythons all the time its called getting advice, these people are also snake enthusiasts who have been in the hobby longer than me. You know what? I listen, and I’m not offended, because these people, just like us, give the best advice on how to properly keep these animals. I, unlike others am not stupid enough to see their advice as an attack on my keeping ability. And no, I’ve not lived in your shoes, but I will tell you about myself, as of a few hours ago I am now 25 (today is my birthday) I live at home with my mother and father still. I have a college degree, and I’m currently working on my second. I have a full time job, but still struggle to pay the bills, (car, phone, credit, and insurance). I have a girlfriend, hopefully in the next few months she’ll be my fiancé, and I still have time to keep and care for these guys the way they are supposed to be taken care of.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

I get all what I'm saying from the company that sold me my newbie pastel 100% pied sooooo if I'm not doing what you people are telling means I'm doing this my way like they were still in the wild in AFRICA where non of yall, maybe a select FEW have EVER been I don't like the whole RACK system method, it works but I don't like putting my babies in jail(racks), there are NO rack systems in the WILD..!![emoji6]

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Maybe not rack systems Mr. Echo, but there are termite mounds, and tree trunks which come kind of close to a rack when it comes to space, did YOU know? Ball Pythons really enjoy enclosed and cramped spaces? You know, those that a rack system or a termite mound can provide? Last time I was in Africa, I also didn’t see any repurposed dumpster TV stands with Ball Pythons in them. I guess those aren’t in the wild either, darn…

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Hmmmmmm ok, understood now different states and regions have different temps/humidity levels so the guy I got pastel from lives in NC closer to the equator so his regular weather temps would be hotter than someone in NJ... Now soo many people on this forum are from all over the U.S. so let a NJ person on here tell me some news and I'll take his/her word a lot easier than someone who lives in OHIO or anywhere else..!! Yall seem not to be getting MY point, and that's I'm going to raise(keep) MY snakes the way that best suits ME...[emoji106]��[emoji108]��...... So what erryyone<--southern accent lol, is telling me is clear bellies DONT mean anything, I craiglisted these two beauties so no kind of breeder news to what type het he/she is cuz he shows some markers also...just a quick question don't get rediculous wit the answers, **putting two gets together would get you what outcome..??**

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Yes, Mr. Echo, I do live in Ohio, the summers are too short (its already 60 here at night), and the winters are way too long, there virtually is a 3 week fall, and an even shorter spring. I’m pretty sure you and I live in the same geographical area, and I attempt to keep my snakes at the proper temperature for them, and replicate to the best of my abilities what it’s like in Africa. Have you ever been to North Carolina? Did you know, that it also snows there? It is really, no-where near the equator, like at all…. You really just don’t get it. Your point is that you are going to raise these animals the best way that suits YOU. That, is not the proper way to care for an animal. Especially if you want them to thrive and breed, YOU need to raise your snakes the way that best suits THEM. And I feel so bad for your snakes since you raise them the way that best suits you.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

I've had these snakes for 5 years and ain't NOTHING happened/s to them and just cuz I don't post it doesn't mean I don't have it, could incubate the eggs if they needed it tomorrow.. OMGoodness I can't wait to prove yall wrong, yall gon be saying oh snap maybe he WAS saying something we didn't understand..!!!!!!

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You’ve had these snakes for five years… I’ve had my oldest since he was a baby, he is now 9. There are people on here who have had the same ball python for over 20 years old. So, why won’t you just listen to a word of advice any of us give you? You say nothing happened(s) to them? They are housed together correct? Funny how within 5 years, you’ve had no eggs, or anything with them…. Maybe just maybe it means you are doing something wrong… by the way, everybody on here already can’t understand you… your typing skills remind of a small child. Please learn some proper spelling and grammar, for your sake, and for the sake of your future.
As for everything else, this thread is a train wreck, just like the other poster has stated. You don’t listen to anything anyone else says, I personally believe you are a troll that has been created by someone just to make us entertained, or really frustrated. But if not, I sincerely feel bad for you, and the snakes, who are being cared for in a way that best suits you, and not them.
Please just stop.

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Originally Posted by Montypython696

Have you ever been to North Carolina? Did you know, that it also snows there? It is really, no-where near the equator, like at all….

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Did you know that when it snows in North Carolina, everything grinds to a halt and the power goes out for extended periods because no one knows how to handle snow and none of the cities have the proper equipment to deal with it? :D I have to keep my reptiles alive in sub-freezing temps here with no power multiple times every winter, and I'm in an apartment so I can't have a generator. Talk about some seriously horrible all-nighters.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

**putting two gets together would get you what outcome..??**

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If you meant "hets" and not "gets"... as in:

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

**putting two Hets together would get you what outcome..??**

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Then the breakdown is as follows:

Het Pied Male x Het Pied Female = Each animal will pass on one copy of the Pied gene to 50% of the offspring, and no copies of the Pied gene to 50% of the offspring. Some will overlap, some will not. This gives you a breakdown of...

• 25% NORMALS (both parents passed on no copies of the Pied gene)
• 25% VISUAL Pieds (both parents passed on one copy of the Pied gene, resulting in a baby with two copies of the gene, giving the visual effect)
• 50% HET Pieds (one parent passed on one copy of the Pied gene, one parent passed on no copies of the Pied gene, so the baby carries the gene, but does not show it)

The problem now becomes: which babies are HET, and which are NORMAL?

You might be able to make a guess by looking for markers - but remember, these are only clues, and not guarantees. As such, each baby that does not display the visual has a 66% chance of being HET, meaning those are the odds that it carries the hidden gene. :)

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Did you know that when it snows in North Carolina, everything grinds to a halt and the power goes out for extended periods because no one knows how to handle snow and none of the cities have the proper equipment to deal with it? :D

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True story: I lived in South Carolina when I was in Kindergarten, and the first time I saw snow was on the first day of spring one year... I made a tiny snowman in our front yard. It was horrible XD I'm sure I have a picture buried in an album somewhere. But I thought it was AMAZING.

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Originally Posted by Aercadia

True story: I lived in South Carolina when I was in Kindergarten, and the first time I saw snow was on the first day of spring one year... I made a tiny snowman in our front yard. It was horrible XD I'm sure I have a picture buried in an album somewhere. But I thought it was AMAZING.

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I've lived in the South my whole life... And even though I'm vegan, I still feel a strong compulsion to go out and buy lots of eggs, milk, and bread every time they forecast snow. It's like some bizarre cult ritual that everyone living below the Mason-Dixon line does.
It doesn't even make sense. I mean, if you're scared you're going to get snowed in, why buy things that go bad quickly?

See here we go again, YES they are in the same enclosure but TOTALLY separated, 5 years and no eggs means I'm not trying to have INBRED babies my first two are brother and sister that's why I copped the 100%pastel het pied, so NO INBREEDING would take place here with many problems I read could happen SO see I've been looking out for my babies..[emoji6] NOW I was stating that NC is closer than NJ is to the equator.. And whoever posted about my spelling the type of (LUCKY I can't curse on here) but that's what iPhones do so you coulda not wasted time posting at all...DONT talk to me about YOUR well being of MY babies, they are still alive with NO PROBLEMS...OH yeah I noticed that when I confined the male BP he snapped at me when I took him out for his weekly trip OUTSIDE, I comfort my babies... Now watch someone post you SHOULDN'T do that or keep them in the same DIVIDED enclosure with no means of the two reaching each other.. So there let the insults commence..!![emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]


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So can you please show me were you read that inbreeding cause all these problems? All you do is make up lies to make your BAD husbandry practices seam ok... I can tell you for a fact that we wouldnt have 3/4 of the morphs without inbreeding...your so called HET pieds originally were inbreed...they found one pied in the wild breed it to a normal got all HET babies then breed the babies back to dad...now I think they have a name for that I cant quite put my thumb on it....humm... oh yea inbreeding!!!!!!I have owned snake long before you got dropped on your head repeatedly. you have had many many people. Nicely try to help you...but when u insult breeders and more educated people than u your not going get nice response. So once again can I see were you are reading this info and who the author is..please im more than willing to read these new studies you are reading.....good luck with trying to prove those pieds lollolololol better chance hitting the power ball.

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It's perfectly normal for a male who has just been put into a new enclosure and is suddenly grabbed by a giant three hundred times his size to snap. They don't have great vision and if they are startled it can take a minute to recognize you by smell.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Hmmmmmm ok, understood now different states and regions have different temps/humidity levels so the guy I got pastel from lives in NC closer to the equator so his regular weather temps would be hotter than someone in NJ... Now soo many people on this forum are from all over the U.S. so let a NJ person on here tell me some news and I'll take his/her word a lot easier than someone who lives in OHIO or anywhere else..!!

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Last time I checked, 85-90 degrees and 60% humidity was the same no matter the location or language. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Yall seem not to be getting MY point, and that's I'm going to raise(keep) MY snakes the way that best suits ME...[emoji106]��[emoji108]��......

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I get you and its best said right here. Nice to see it finally come out.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

See here we go again, YES they are in the same enclosure but TOTALLY separated, 5 years and no eggs means I'm not trying to have INBRED babies my first two are brother and sister that's why I copped the 100%pastel het pied, so NO INBREEDING would take place here with many problems I read could happen SO see I've been looking out for my babies..[emoji6]

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I would like to know of these genetic problems you speak of?? Line breeding in reptiles is totally different than in mammals. Then there is also line breeding in dog for other reasons. School me please in your genetic understanding.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

NOW I was stating that NC is closer than NJ is to the equator.. And whoever posted about my spelling the type of (LUCKY I can't curse on here) but that's what iPhones do so you coulda not wasted time posting at all.

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Cool point for remembering and listening to something. Your threat doesn't hold much weight though.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps875f01ef.jpg

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Originally Posted by Montypython696

I have a girlfriend, hopefully in the next few months she’ll be my fiancé, and I still have time to keep and care for these guys the way they are supposed to be taken care of.

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Does she know this as of yet and if not..................... It will cost you for us to keep our mouths shut. ;)

LOL, I was talking about mating brother and sister from the same clutch, I at least know that a sibling gon have to mate with its mom to reach a morph...


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http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...f617a9a8e5.jpg to all you NAYSAYERS, looks like I'm doing something right that bulge ain't for no reason...!![emoji6][emoji6]


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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

LOL, I was talking about mating brother and sister from the same clutch, I at least know that a sibling gon have to mate with its mom to reach a morph...

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And you think there is a difference in what you just posted?

My posts/replies gotta be making yalls day(s) cuz yall can STOP whenever yall want, and leave this person that doesn't deserve to have ball pythons according to yall, ALONE..if erryyone has seen my PAST POSTS, you already know it so WHY do people keep posting on my posts instead of doing/looking at something more meaningful..!![emoji108]🏿


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Because you cant seem to even answer simple questions.
Also its a PUBLIC board LoL
You act like you don't even read when someone asks you something you don't like.

Im still waiting for the new study on inbreeding????????????????????????????????

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I swear, I think I'm going to get cancer from reading and replying to any of your posts. I feel as though I am talking to Helen Keller, but at least she eventually learned.

Please attempt to type using proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling. It isn't that difficult even on a phone, I'm using my S5 right now. It only looks bad on your part, especially since every single one of your posts looks like they have been written by a 5 year old. If you want us to take you seriously, take the time and effort to write a reply properly.


Your snakes may be in separated, but in the same enclosure, but everyone knows, that is only recent and due to your repurposed dumpster TV stand. Here's the proof:


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...22318-Question

So even though they are separate, that's still what? 4.5 years of them being together? You also posted a picture of a bulge from one of your snakes, saying you must be doing something right, so I'm assuming that means the two snakes you have still have regular contact with each other.

For someone who thinks they have a vast knowledge of breeding, you should know, that a very good portion of ball pythons are inbred. There is nothing wrong with it, and that is how new morphs, even Pieds have been made.

"I don't post it doesn't mean I don't have it, could incubate the eggs if they needed it tomorrow.."

I think you are saying that you have an incubator? I really cant tell. But please, you have no issue posting pictures of the snakes cages, apparent gravidity, and whatever else you post, so I and I'm sure everyone else would love to see what you have to incubate eggs, tomorrow if needed.

You still haven't posted anything on the Pastel you just purchased, what enclosure is it in? Where is it in the house? Next to the old snakes? IN with the old snakes? And by the way, is that particle board that your snakes are laying on? Do you really have no substrate in that enclosure at all?

I still really hope that you are a troll made up by a user hear to give us a laugh. But I just cannot tell if someone can really be this ignorant and not listen to any advice that has been given to you in the 5+ months of you being here.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...f617a9a8e5.jpg to all you NAYSAYERS, looks like I'm doing something right that bulge ain't for no reason...!![emoji6][emoji6]


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so u believe your girl BP is carrying eggs? if so, i hope u read up on the breeding and incubation husbandry here - http://ball-pythons.net/forums/forum...65-BP-Breeding. and i hope u take some tried, tested and true advice from the folks here on this endeavor.