For New Enclosure

For my new enclosure, only thing i got left to get is some VARNISH for the humidity..
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...pshjdmkpz1.jpg

Looks good so far. Have you got a thermostat for that heat pad? Also, where are you planning to put the pad to heat the enclosure?

Analog gauges are notorious for giving inaccurate readings. I would return that one and get a digital one.

I have found the dual dial by Zoomed is actually pretty good just in case you want analog.
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Econom...ter+hygrometer

You need a tstat before using that uth. You also can not put the uth inside of a wood enclosure. They are designed to go on the outside of a glass or pvc cage. If you are planning on using it inside a wood enclosure without placing another floor between it and the snake you may need to rethink your plans.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Looks good so far. Have you got a thermostat for that heat pad? Also, where are you planning to put the pad to heat the enclosure?

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x2 for this, a thermostat is a MUST for heat pads. Snakes have been badly burned/have died because of improper use of heat pads.

Also, I really wouldn't use the dial temperature/humidity gauges they tend to be horribly inaccurate. You can get a good digital one from home depot for $10.

Another question based on your previous threads, is this enclosure of yours for just one of your two snakes? Or are you putting them both in the same enclosure again? Again that's really not the healthiest option for them.

THANKS erryyone, from the top 1ST::plan on putting the UTH under the enclosure on the HOT side, too hot.?? wouldn't the WOOD enclosure and the bedding cool it down a lil IF it got too hot on the hot side above the heat pad.?? 2ND:: tried to go the cheap route with that thermostat, the only reason i did is because it didn't rely on a battery.. 3RD:: I'm going to place them together, they are brother and sis, but when i get a new one that is going to be entered around the mating season ONLY..

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

THANKS erryyone, from the top 1ST::plan on putting the UTH under the enclosure on the HOT side, too hot.?? wouldn't the WOOD enclosure and the bedding cool it down a lil IF it got too hot on the hot side above the heat pad.?? 2ND:: tried to go the cheap route with that thermostat, the only reason i did is because it didn't rely on a battery.. 3RD:: I'm going to place them together, they are brother and sis, but when i get a new one that is going to be entered around the mating season ONLY..

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1st, if you are trying to heat through wood with an unregulated UTH, it is never going to get through hot enough, or if it does then it's going to so hot that it's going to catch the wood on fire.

2nd, thermometer not thermostat. Thermostat is what you should have on your UTH, thermometer just tells you the temperature.

3rd, DON'T! You're just risking cannibalism of one for no gain except that you're cheap. Which is 50% of the source of your problems. The other half is that you don't listen to advice if it contradicts what you want to hear.

4th, If you can't afford to properly house what animals you have you shouldn't be getting more with the intent to make even more that you don't have housing for. You've had them together for a long time without them breeding, either the conditions are terrible for breeding (still possible) or they are the same sex. If you complete this project and it works then you now have a reasonably proper house for each one individually, not for three.

The uth is never going to work correctly through the wood. You are asking for trouble.

Don't be cheap. Being cheap now is going to cost you more in the long run. Set it up right the first time and if you cant afford to house two snakes correctly don't do it.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

3RD:: I'm going to place them together, they are brother and sis, but when i get a new one that is going to be entered around the mating season ONLY..

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Woah woah woah, so you are keeping the male and female siblings together in one cage, AND then putting a third one in the same cage with the other male and the female?

Even if its just for mating season that is just plain stupid, and extremely dangerous too.

You really need to double think your current set-ups before you do any of this.

And just because they are brother and sister doesn't mean they have to be together. Its not healthy and it just screams bad husbandry.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

3RD:: I'm going to place them together, they are brother and sis, but when i get a new one that is going to be entered around the mating season ONLY..

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I completely misread this the first time.

What tells you this is a good idea!?!

Three snakes together?

Do you think this is like a rattlesnake roundup?

Another member (think it was pit?) recommended putting another shelf in the cabinet and converting into into a sort of rack system with tubs, which could totally work and still be economical. Sterilite tubs aren't that expensive at all. You'll still need to get a thermostat to regulate the heat- about $50 if you want to go the cheap route, and a couple of digital thermometers/hygrometers- those are about $10 each. But $70 bucks is worth not dead snakes, and if you're keeping them in tubs with lids you won't have to varnish the cabinet.

Let me reiterate what the other members have said: do not continue housing your snake together. The only reason snakes should be in the same tub is breeding, and that's only for a couple of days, then you pull the male and wait a few weeks to pair them again. Snakes don't care about familial relations; if they're oppisite gender and your husbandry is spot on, they'll try to make babies. That they've been housed together this long and nothing has happened means one or both factors is off. Fix the husbandry first.

THANKS lizardlicks, to comment on the replies, i'm NOT that STUPID to place all three in 1 enclosure, FOXTON your 4th wasn't needed, NOT trying to be a non listener but if i make a mistake, let me LEARN from it.. not trying to hurt or kill my snakeS, BUT your going to say im GOING to, so thats where problems start on here for me...The BEGINNING of this thread was EXTRA cool, then it turned DOWN, LEAVE money comments OUT my posts, cuz ya'll DON'T know anything about my life, just saying...

Only reason people bring up money is because you've brought it up before... and used it as excuses as to why you couldn't get your husbandry right the first time. We want what's best for you and your snakes, so when we give you money saving options, it's only in the spirit of helping.

And we know sometimes that we have to learn from our mistakes, but IF it was even a possibility that one of my animals would kill the other, I would not risk even that 1%. People are trying to help you avoid possible loss and heartbreak, not to mention what that snake that was cannibalized would go through :(....

I would suggest you either buy a rack system or build one yourself. Go simple. Simple substrate, uth (or tape), therm, etc....

Especially if you plan on breeding, a rack system is a great option in which you can house multiple reptiles.

Generally I have found the more complex your enclosure is, the more maintenance and potential for problems you will discover (poor sheds, mites, humidity, heating, etc)

As a side note, I am building another new enclosure rack out of hardwood pine, would be happy to share with you if interested.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Only reason people bring up money is because you've brought it up before... and used it as excuses as to why you couldn't get your husbandry right the first time. We want what's best for you and your snakes, so when we give you money saving options, it's only in the spirit of helping.

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UNDERSTOOD sir, but PAST posts are just that, the PAST, so why people rely on PAST posts to post on FUTURE threads, that's the MAIN thing that bugs me out on here and people think it's ok TO PUSH my buttons and erryybody want to downgrade my REP status, because i DON'T agree with something i read..

If you house a male and female together, even if they're siblings, they WILL mate when they become sexually mature (unless conditions are not right for mating, as previously stated). The male will mate with the female, non stop, until it kills him.

Putting a THIRD male in, to mate with the female, will cause the two males to fight.

Not to mention, all this nonstop breeding will most likely injure the female.

Snakes should never be housed together, unless TEMPORARILY for breeding.

As previously stated, you should make sure you have proper SEPARATE housing for all three snakes, and the babies that will be produced.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

UNDERSTOOD sir, but PAST posts are just that, the PAST, so why people rely on PAST posts to post on FUTURE threads, that's the MAIN thing that bugs me out on here and people think it's ok TO PUSH my buttons and erryybody want to downgrade my REP status, because i DON'T agree with something i read..

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We rely on pasts posts for a whole picture. You wouldn't pick up a book or TV series in the middle with the idea that the previous chapters/episodes have absolutely no bearing on what's currently happening. If your situation has changed, then say so. You mentioned in past threads that your family had come under a deal of emotional and financial distress because of an unexpected injury/illness. It happens, and no one thinks anything bad about it. As of right now, you're still trying to refurbish a piece of furniture you found in a dumpster. Not a bad idea! I'm not knocking it at all, but it does continue to paint the picture that saving money is your primary concern. If it isn't, and things about your situation have changed, then I would suggest going with the previous suggestion of buying or building a rack system. You can keep more snakes in a smaller space that way, and their heat and humidity are mush easier to manage than in an open enclosure type system.

And I KNOW you've been told this before, because I was one of the people who told you: you lose reputation because of your bad attitude. No one is here to push your buttons, you're pushing them yourself by getting nasty when someone tells you something you don't want to hear. Stop taking our suggestions as personal criticisms or attacks, because they aren't. You're free to ignore our advice as you please, but remember we aren't here to yank your chain, we're here to help you and your snakes be happy and healthy.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

UNDERSTOOD sir, but PAST posts are just that, the PAST, so why people rely on PAST posts to post on FUTURE threads, that's the MAIN thing that bugs me out on here and people think it's ok TO PUSH my buttons and erryybody want to downgrade my REP status, because i DON'T agree with something i read..

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If you want the best information possible you need to give us the best information possible. Otherwise we are to rely on the past information shared.

I honestly dont see the big issue here. You asked a question and got good answers to keep the snake safe, which I thought was the goal. Seems like a successful mission to me.

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Originally Posted by Ballpythoncrazy

If you house a male and female together, even if they're siblings, they WILL mate when they become sexually mature (unless conditions are not right for mating, as previously stated). The male will mate with the female, non stop, until it kills him.

Putting a THIRD male in, to mate with the female, will cause the two males to fight.

Not to mention, all this nonstop breeding will most likely injure the female.

Snakes should never be housed together, unless TEMPORARILY for breeding.

As previously stated, you should make sure you have proper SEPARATE housing for all three snakes, and the babies that will be produced.

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understood, that is where people didn't get me.. I'm not putting the 3 together, would remove her brother for the time being and enter the newbie..everybody talking about rack on racks on racks,i'll figure something out when/if the time comes, i wanna view my kids in their homemade habitat enclosure, NEW QUESTION:: how does building (hides) inside the enclosure out of sheetrock sound.?(GOOD or BAD)?

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

We rely on pasts posts for a whole picture. You wouldn't pick up a book or TV series in the middle with the idea that the previous chapters/episodes have absolutely no bearing on what's currently happening. If your situation has changed, then say so. You mentioned in past threads that your family had come under a deal of emotional and financial distress because of an unexpected injury/illness. It happens, and no one thinks anything bad about it. As of right now, you're still trying to refurbish a piece of furniture you found in a dumpster. Not a bad idea! I'm not knocking it at all, but it does continue to paint the picture that saving money is your primary concern. If it isn't, and things about your situation have changed, then I would suggest going with the previous suggestion of buying or building a rack system. You can keep more snakes in a smaller space that way, and their heat and humidity are mush easier to manage than in an open enclosure type system.

And I KNOW you've been told this before, because I was one of the people who told you: you lose reputation because of your bad attitude. No one is here to push your buttons, you're pushing them yourself by getting nasty when someone tells you something you don't want to hear. Stop taking our suggestions as personal criticisms or attacks, because they aren't. You're free to ignore our advice as you please, but remember we aren't here to yank your chain, we're here to help you and your snakes be happy and healthy.

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I could see if i said AGAIN i'm having money problems BUT that hasn't been said so STOP relying on PAST POSTS to determine you alls posts about what im posting new threads about..

Sheetrock sounds like a bad idea for hides. BPs are pretty strong so the potential for them to break apart one of the hides and get crushed or hurt is there. Not 100% sure what you had in mind but the sheet rock doesn't sound like the best idea IMO. There are plenty of other things to make hides out of that wouldn't pose a safety risk.

A lot of people just give advice for cheap alternatives for caging bc that's what most people are interested in. If someone asked me for suggestions for caging I'd recommend them the most inexpensive items that would work correctly first just because most small-time hobbyists appreciate tips that can save a few bucks while still being safe for the snake.

Sheetrock + High Humidity = :colbert:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Sheetrock + High Humidity = :colbert:

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What KMG said. Also, it's dusty. Bad idea. Just pop down to the local dollar store and find those smallish cat litter trays and cut a hole big enough for the snake to go through into them. Sand the edges to make sure they don't got any snaggy spots and you're good.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

What KMG said. Also, it's dusty. Bad idea. Just pop down to the local dollar store and find those smallish cat litter trays and cut a hole big enough for the snake to go through into them. Sand the edges to make sure they don't got any snaggy spots and you're good.

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Cheap and easy.

Another way to round the edges is to kiss the rough edges with a lighter and rub them smooth. It just takes a second to soften it up. Very easy.

Dont keep reptiles you cannot afford, its stupid and cruel , big mistake ive made before , and everyone has money/emotional issues, grow up and listen to the people you ask for advice instead of crying when someone implies you have financial issues, this is the internet not a support group , your here for reptile answers , not a damn group therepy session

Btw even cheaper then building your own Try online classifieds,(kijiji,ebay,etc) ive found tanks ranging up to 170 gal for less then 100$, trust me i built a custom community enclosure for my cwd ( its 7ft high 5ft wide 4ft deep) and built with all ths discounts i could find , still ended up spending close to 800$ for all the wood and supplies

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Originally Posted by Foxton

1st, if you are trying to heat through wood with an unregulated UTH, it is never going to get through hot enough, or if it does then it's going to so hot that it's going to catch the wood on fire.

2nd, thermometer not thermostat. Thermostat is what you should have on your UTH, thermometer just tells you the temperature.

3rd, DON'T! You're just risking cannibalism of one for no gain except that you're cheap. Which is 50% of the source of your problems. The other half is that you don't listen to advice if it contradicts what you want to hear.

4th, If you can't afford to properly house what animals you have you shouldn't be getting more with the intent to make even more that you don't have housing for. You've had them together for a long time without them breeding, either the conditions are terrible for breeding (still possible) or they are the same sex. If you complete this project and it works then you now have a reasonably proper house for each one individually, not for three.

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Ummm no, there are a few things I disagree with here. The ignition temperature of wood is quite variable depending on the type of wood and the moisture content, but even under ideal conditions wood won't catch on fire until the temperature is well over several hundred degrees. I've been successful in the past using an undertank heater to heat wooden cages, it just takes a lot longer for it to heat up.

Many people, myself included have very successfully housed multiple snakes together without any problems whatsoever, cannabalism in ball pythons is EXTREMELY rare. Why is it that everyone seems to use that as an example of why not to house animals together? I prefer not to house multiple snakes together myself, but it has NOTHING to do with cannabalism.

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Originally Posted by pailspailspails

Dont keep reptiles you cannot afford, its stupid and cruel , big mistake ive made before , and everyone has money/emotional issues, grow up and listen to the people you ask for advice instead of crying when someone implies you have financial issues, this is the internet not a support group , your here for reptile answers , not a damn group therepy session

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This was entirely uncalled for. The guy is asking for advice, he's not asking to be belittled.

Its called the truth, most people never hear it .......

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Originally Posted by pailspailspails

Its called the truth, most people never hear it .......

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Seriously? You're very first post on this forum is to dump on somebody? And your defense is that 'it's the truth'? Give me a break.

Lol your the one turning this into a chirpfest , all i ment is for this guy to listen to the advice HE asked for and not rage when someone tells you something you dont wanna hear

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Originally Posted by pailspailspails

Lol your the one turning this into a chirpfest , all i ment is for this guy to listen to the advice HE asked for and not rage when someone tells you something you dont wanna hear

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One of the most frequent complaints I see on the forum has to do with people being mean to new people asking beginner questions. And as far as I can tell, your VERY FIRST POST on this forum was with the intention of being mean and for no other reason. At least the OP is asking questions. Whether or not he wishes to follow the advice given, is entirely up to him. At least he's concerned enough to ask. When people get the feeling that they're just being beaten up, they tend to quit asking questions and become poorer snake keepers for it.

I have no idea what a 'chirpfest' is.

Ok let's be honest though, anyone who has read this guys last threads we know he doesn't really want or take any advice given. He just gets his rocks off on arguing with people and defending himself over and over again. I am still convinced this guy is a troll because he types like he's talking in a grand theft auto game.


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Mark shut the heck up this is reptile talk not therapy stop talking about feelings, grow up and stick to the issue and not the people posting

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Originally Posted by pailspailspails

Mark shut the heck up this is reptile talk not therapy stop talking about feelings, grow up and stick to the issue and not the people posting

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You forgot some of these , . . , , , .

:bye:

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all i ment is for this guy to listen to the advice HE asked for and not rage when someone tells you something you dont wanna hear

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I really didn't want to make a comment in this thread, I think I told everything what I can in the older ones.

It's far from me to protect the OP, seen how he acts childish if he get an advice what he don't want to hear, but...
He had a small aquarium with !gravel! under two BP-s. What did he do? He listen the advices (okay... not every...)and try to change. Better substrate, UTH, bigger cage, thermo/hygrometer. It's an other question, that is not the best setup what you can get, but I can say.. much better if you compare that what he had before.

Look behind... maybe he have a little conflict addiction, but slowly he make corrections in his husbandry.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Many people, myself included have very successfully housed multiple snakes together without any problems whatsoever, cannabalism in ball pythons is EXTREMELY rare. Why is it that everyone seems to use that as an example of why not to house animals together? I prefer not to house multiple snakes together myself, but it has NOTHING to do with cannabalism.

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Although cannibalism is rare, there is a chance of it happening. I think many people just don't want to risk it, even if it's only a 1% chance of it happening. Plus, being housed together causes unnecessary stress on the snakes and I wouldn't want to put my snakes, let alone any animal, through constant stress. I think that's why many people say not to house snakes together.

The only thing I'd like to point out is that the snakes won't care if they're siblings or not, if conditions are right for mating (and since the goal is to have ideal living conditions year round, they should be right all the time) whichever male has access to the female will go for it which doesn't sound like what you want. I remember you put a hole in the bottom of the divide between the two sides of the enclosure you're building, I would just recommend plugging it back up and keeping them both separate until breeding is desired. Sheet rock for hides is also going to be more expensive than fashioning one out of a litter pan or buying a nicer natural looking hide from the pet store (or online, amazon tends to be a cheap option more often than not).

How did you seal the interior? My husband and I are working on a beardie terrarium and aren't quite sure how to finish the wood and seal it. He liked the idea of grout and mod podge, but that sounds hard to clean to me.

Wow. This thread has gotten way out of control. Bottom line is the OP is going to do whatever the heck they want to. Sometimes we get newbies on here that ask questions but choose not to listen to our advice. That is totally on the OP. I see no reason to disrespect a mod though. That is totally uncalled for.

My advice to the OP Is this. Do whatever you want but don't come crying when things don't work out for your snakes. You ASSume you know what you are doing and that is fine. Many of the people that have commented on this thread know a hell of a lot more then most about taking care of these wonderful creatures. You seem to be a little cocky and hasty in your decisions. But hey, you're a newbie and apparently know better.

My final words are this, GOOD LUCK.


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Originally Posted by Ballpythoncrazy

Although cannibalism is rare, there is a chance of it happening. I think many people just don't want to risk it, even if it's only a 1% chance of it happening. Plus, being housed together causes unnecessary stress on the snakes and I wouldn't want to put my snakes, let alone any animal, through constant stress. I think that's why many people say not to house snakes together.

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I'm just curious if anyone on this site has had BP cannabilism actually happen.

People used to constantly warn about the danger of pine bedding poisoning their snakes, or the danger of BP's ingesting bedding while feeding and becoming impacted. Skiploder started asking people for their personal experiences (not anecdotes found on the web) regarding those events.

This warning of BP cannabilism kind of reminds me of that for some reason. I could be wrong, it could be happening, but I'd like to hear from someone who has actually had one BP eat another while both snakes were in that person's care and housed together. I've seen plenty of people on here post they have successfully housed BP's together, but don't recall seeing anyone say they've experienced BP cannabilism personally.

EDIT: Actually, this is way off topic. If the mods want to move it or even delete it's, I'll understand.

The truth is here and has been handed out.
How those viewing it take it is up to them.
I have voice both fact and my opinion on the other threads.

All of the posts any one member posts are viewed as a collective and if its something in your life you DONT want the world to know then dont post it on a public forum. Its that simple.

I have tried to heat through mdf..... It SUCKS and is not worth risking the health of your snakes. You will be asking why the temperature isnt high enough after a while.
FYI you can see your animals through tubs in rack systems......well right up to the point they decide to paint the front of the tubs brown.

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psucgf5jwi.jpg
Almost done..

mad gassed for this enclosure and forgot to move that shatter proof, "whatchamacallit"<---lol..

FINALLY.....http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psipzobhvm.jpg

Hi. :)

How is the door secured? I wouldn't trust the magnetic door locks to hold as these little beggars can be surprisingly strong when they get their head into a gap.

One of mine once broke the metal fish tank top I was using and managed to force a corner open - then promptly got stuck in it. :rolleyes:

surprisingly i caught my female trying to escape last night and she did but just ended up on the top of the enclosure, i monitored her last night and saw how she tried to get through again, so i just placed some painters tape on the OUTSIDE of the enclosure and monitored her aain tonight and she found no way to escape, so i guess im going to have to UP the ANTE on the enclosure door fasteners....

Echo... My snake ate my snake, they were friendly with eachother then one was gone. Now I'm worried the one that did the eating is also going to die of complications digesting and that snake rots in his stomach.
That was yesterday
it does happen
Id turn it into 2 separate boxes

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Originally Posted by Joe balls

Echo... My snake ate my snake, they were friendly with eachother then one was gone. Now I'm worried the one that did the eating is also going to die of complications digesting and that snake rots in his stomach.
That was yesterday
it does happen
Id turn it into 2 separate boxes

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Humorous story right there, excuse me for laughing.<--- NO DISRESPECT.. UNLESS I actually see that happening or FOOTAGE of that happening, i CAN'T believe it happened.. 2 separate boxes how?? the male and female are separated by that shelf, so there is no way they would/could reach eachother unless i did the moving...

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Humorous story right there, excuse me for laughing.<--- NO DISRESPECT.. UNLESS I actually see that happening or FOOTAGE of that happening, i CAN'T believe it happened.

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WoW..... You might want to check up on it. Use the search bar above. Happened more than once and there really isnt anything funny about it.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

Humorous story right there, excuse me for laughing.<--- NO DISRESPECT.. UNLESS I actually see that happening or FOOTAGE of that happening, i CAN'T believe it happened.. 2 separate boxes how?? the male and female are separated by that shelf, so there is no way they would/could reach eachother unless i did the moving...

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Here you go OP, since you seem to find a member's snake being eaten by another snake so funny. I sincerely hope you never have to deal with one of your snakes (that you keep together) cannibalizing another, because even though it is rare. It DOES in fact happen. And you wonder why your rep keeps going in the red...

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ht=cannibalism

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ht=cannibalism

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