Thought I'd better introduce myself as things seem to be a bit shaky .

Hey .. I'm getting the distinct feeling of "unwelcomeness" in this forum for some reason ... Something I've NEVER come across in all my years of frequenting forums .

I've had a few 'biting' comments thrown my way since I ventured in here a few weeks ago and I really don't understand what the issue is .... I've admitted MANY times in here that I'm not an expert on anything but I have had many years of successful snake keeping .... I currently own 17 snakes of different types and in all my time I've never had a snake die on me . I had one with an RI many years ago and was lucky enough to be able to cure it myself by nebulising F10 for a couple of weeks.

Any advice I have suggested / posted has either been from my experiences or my friends .

Just think you need to cut the new guys a bit of slack .... I' m a real nice guy

Currently have .

1 Snow Boa - 7' adult - the featured Snow Boa in John Berry's Designer Boa Morphs .
1 Dwarf Hypo Burmese Python
2 HC Albino Royal Pythons ( unrelated pair )
1 Pastel Royal Python
1 Rhino- nosed rat snake
1 Red Mountain Bamboo rat snake.
I Imperial Pueblan Hybrid ( King x Milk)
1 Amel Stripe aduit Corn snake
1 Banded Cali King
1 Albino Striped Cali King
1 Desert King
4 Garter snakes ( I Melanistic 'Black' and 3 Albino Chequered Garters)


I have Aspergers ( form of autism ) and have worked in education for 19 years helping autistic teenagers to survive the torture of secondary / high school .

I'm a real nice guy ..honestly !!

Please excuse my obsessiveness any poor spelling / grammar ....it comes with Aspergers , sadly .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

Any advice I have suggested / posted has either been from my experiences or my friends .

---

Some people either forget, or fail to realize, that there are no "set in stone" rules to reptile keeping, and that most everything that is suggested, or recommended is based on someones experience, and they are quick to criticize any suggestion, recommendation, or opinion that is different, or not in keeping with the status quo.

It looks like you have a nice collection...:gj:

How do you like the Garter snakes? I am thinking of getting some in the future?

Also don't sweat the people flipping out, everybody is an expert, lol.

Edit: If you are talking specifically about the soaking snake thread, really don't sweat it. I actually don't soak my snakes but if my snake is covered in crap, I'm washing it, not up for debate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransack

How do you like the Garter snakes? I am thinking of getting some in the future?

Also don't sweat the people flipping out, everybody is an expert, lol.

Edit: If you are talking specifically about the soaking snake thread, really don't sweat it. I actually don't soak my snakes but if my snake is covered in crap, I'm washing it, not up for debate.

---

Actually there's been a few times that I've felt a bit uncomfortable to be honest .. I wouldn't mind if I'd come in here all guns blazing , saying I was an expert but anything I've said or suggested was done in good faith with a view to help or share an experience . I just saw an undesirable pattern emerging . I won't stay where I'm not made welcome .
I've already decided not to post any advice or make any further suggestions as my confidence is simply not high enough to take any further criticism / questioning .

I'll just offer the odd opinion ( positive only ) on the various beaut snake pictures that regularly appear in here .

As to my Garter snakes I'm actuality reluctant to share my view on them to be honest . I'll keep it simple . They are real entertainers and seem to have no faults ..

Since you brought it up...

This is coming from a recent post of yours, the tone of which really got under my skin. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm going to go out on a limb here based on what I observed. I saw this post and wanted to reflect a bit.

It's not that you come off as pretending to be an 'expert'. It's acting morally superior because you don't agree with some of the practices other people use. It's okay to disagree, but when you come in, guns blazing, calling people out for being 'morally inferior' because they don't do things the same way as you, you're only going to make enemies, even from people who do agree with you. Talking of "lowering yourself" to practices that you know many people use, and then chalking it up to cultural inadequacy is a very strong notion that is going to GREATLY upset a lot of people.

For example, I feed frozen as much as I can to any of my snakes who will take frozen, which is currently all of them. Some of my newer snakes have come to me eating live, and I have to work them over to frozen -- usually starting with live (if I really have to), then pre-killed (from a spinal dislocation, which seems to be the fastest method -- I think thumping and gassing are less ethical methods), and then to frozen. I raise show mice and have had most types of rodents available in the pet trade at some point or another -- so I value rodents as animals. I do think feeding frozen is a better option in many ways, personally. Had your 'debate' on the issue been simply that -- a constructive debate, asking people politely why they choose to feed live in order to come up with answers/feedback to your questions concerning cultural differences that DO exist, I might have sided with you, seeing as I feed frozen at all costs and have worked painstakingly to convert all of my snakes to frozen. But when you come in accusing people of being lesser than you, and being somehow morally inept, I can't side with you on account of the rudeness and arrogance.

You're entitled to your own opinions, but use some tact. Humble your voice. That's how you get respect.

A lot of the people in this forum are American. Our animal ethics are culturally different than European animal ethics. It's just a different culture, for better or for worse. A lot of reptile people are conservative, perhaps partially because the AR movement here is associated with being far-left (somehow -- some of us lefties still keep animals and understand the different between animal welfare and animal rights. Any good keeper cares about the welfare of their animals -- most/all of the people on this forum have a deep love and respect for snakes that brings us together so that we can learn, teach, and share our passion). This is going to make the reception of judgmental-sounding AResque rhetoric even more negative. We're (Americans) fighting a loosing battle against policies that want to essentially outlaw any pet except cats and dogs, pretty much. Opening a very condescendingly worded thread about 'morally inferior' animal welfare practices is going to irritate a red-hot rash that already exists -- not a good idea. Save your judgmental anti-live feeding rant for the Irish forum. People (Americans) are sensitive to that kind of lingo, because here the same people that spout that rhetoric also support things like the Lacey Act. With the mass banning of reptiles being a constant threat, coming on here with AR rhetoric is going to cause tension -- as the reptile community is currently the most at risk from proposed ignorant AR policies.

I am autistic as well. I understand how difficult it is to communicate with other people in a way that's not rude or awkward. I understand that you probably don't think you're being rude, but you are. Tact is something I've had to learn and still struggle with, so I get it -- I honestly do. But if you want to feel welcome, ask questions that aren't loaded, get to know people, and respect that husbandry practices differ slightly among different cultures and different keepers. You don't have to like the practices that everyone here uses, but understand that we all have the utmost interest in our animals' welfare and success, even if our methods vary from person to person. This should be a place to share our passion and expertise/experience, as well as a safe place to ask questions and not feel judged.

If you're seriously inquiring as to the hostile/cold reception you perceive getting from members here, I hope that this post helps you.

welcome to the forum again. after reading threw that frozen vs live debate you started running elk is 100% correct, you CANNOT come onto a forum to start a discussion and then talk down to everyone that dosent side with your point of view.... thats going to get alot of people against you real real fast and then you have no one to blame but your self not everyone else for taking offense to the way you were talking to and down to them, one should NEVER start a discussion about anything if they arent open to the other side of the discussion

Well ..... To be fair I have already apologised for any rudeness , inconsiderate comments or misunderstandings - in the appropriate threads .
As I mentioned , I have never and could never hurt any creature and just find live feeding abhorrent . It is clearly partly a cultural thing as well as a personal issue . I've also mentioned above that I'm Autistic and sometimes run into bits of bother on many other forums .... being obsessive and having pretty extreme views on just about everything is clearly part of the issue .

Also the other day I promised to avoid any of the existing and any NEW threads concerning LIVE feeding and I have stuck rigidly to my word .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by M.P.C

welcome to the forum again. after reading threw that frozen vs live debate you started running elk is 100% correct, you CANNOT come onto a forum to start a discussion and then talk down to everyone that dosent side with your point of view.... thats going to get alot of people against you real real fast and then you have no one to blame but your self not everyone else for taking offense to the way you were talking to and down to them, one should NEVER start a discussion about anything if they arent open to the other side of the discussion

---

Part of my problem is clearly the way I phrase things in text as I am absolutely fine, face to face with somebody .

I also don't mean to " talk down " to anyone ..... I'm known for treating everyone equal in life and I'd treat the poor homeless guy sat begging in the town exactly the same as I'd treat my best friend ...

You don't happen to be Sheldon Cooper in disguise as a snake owner do you? These threads are Big Bang Theory-ish.
:)

I've been watching things unfold quietly from the sides and feel like coming out of my lurking status.

In all seriousness just take a step back and give yourself a moment to reflect and gather yourself. You have a condition that makes it difficult for you to catch the tone of a conversation so therefore it makes it doubly important that you really evaluate and think about what your saying. You are aware of this condition, but it seems as if you are using it as a catch all excuse for behaving badly rather than taking responsibility for the issues. Your comments are in general lacking empathy and totally refusing to see anyone else's side of the conversation. That doesn't make it a debate that makes it you ranting about a cause that you have suddenly turned into a "holier than thou" trip.

You don't agree with live feeding? Great, don't feed live, but that doesn't mean that others will choose to do the same thing you did. It does not give you the right to belittle people for their choices.

You feel you are being attacked. Terribly sorry about that sensation, but you must also take some responsibility for that, considering the comments you also made. Some of those were not very nice either.

I'm not saying you are totally in the wrong, you were trying to start a debate that didn't go so well, but you aren't totally in the right here either.

A forum would be entirely boring if everyone shared the same opinions. That said, it seems like you've already pinpointed the problem in your posts. You just have to work on that delivery a bit because we're ALL mere mortals here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

and I've NEVER had lower myself to feeding LIVE !

---

As live is an acceptable option for folks in the states it's going to remain a viable suggestion for getting people's snakes to feed. I think you would make a valuable asset for offering advice on getting those snakes to take f/t if you can do it without belittling others while pushing your agenda. It sounds like it was unintentional though so maybe just work on not getting so defensive. If a lot of folks are getting heated about something you say maybe it's a clue for you to go back and reread it a couple times.

Well I won't be frequenting the LIVE feeding threads so I've taken the main issue out of the equation . I spent many, many hours worrying and fretting after things got a bit heated the other day as I actually hate any kind of ill feeling .

Part of the problem started when someone said something about me having a big brain and they were clearly being sarcastic judging by the tone of their post. Another guy suggested in a PM that I was a fool for having my beliefs on feeding . Things like that tend to make me get a little tetchy ...... I never try to start a battle but I certainly won't run from one either .

I was bored so I spent about 5 minutes flipping through some of the posts you have made and already see why things are a "bit shakey". Everyone has already pointed it out to you so there is no need to dive into that anymore, but honestly this thread that you created seems like you are looking for people to go "aww he really is a nice guy" etc. Anyone can create a thread and apologize/justify their actions. A change in attitude will speak louder than you talking about yourself. Just my 2 cents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jclaiborne

I was bored so I spent about 5 minutes flipping through some of the posts you have made and already see why things are a "bit shakey". Everyone has already pointed it out to you so there is no need to dive into that anymore, but honestly this thread that you created seems like you are looking for people to go "aww he really is a nice guy" etc. Anyone can create a thread and apologize/justify their actions. A change in attitude will speak louder than you talking about yourself. Just my 2 cents.

---

Fair points .... although you notice I started this thread about 3 months ago ..... nothing to do with the recent eruptions ...

As to a change in attitude ..... maybe difficult as I will never change my stance on live feeding ..... as an Autistic Aspie I'm kinda " wired up" differently than you "normal" folk and so if something riles me I maybe select the wrong wordings or phrases to make a point. Also as I mentioned , if someone antagonises me I rarely back down. I'd also bet many of my ' suspect' posts were written in the early hours or very late in the evening when I wasn't thinking quite as rationally as I should .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vypyrz

It looks like you have a nice collection...:gj:

---

Thanks , I'm up 18 now as I've recently added a beautiful female adult Blizzard Corn snake ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

Well I won't be frequenting the LIVE feeding threads so I've taken the main issue out of the equation . I spent many, many hours worrying and fretting after things got a bit heated the other day as I actually hate any kind of ill feeling .

Part of the problem started when someone said something about me having a big brain and they were clearly being sarcastic judging by the tone of their post. Another guy suggested in a PM that I was a fool for having my beliefs on feeding . Things like that tend to make me get a little tetchy ...... I never try to start a battle but I certainly won't run from one either .

---

Staring off, IF someone is attacking you privately that is a battle for one of us MODs to handle.
That is something that is sad and cowardly, IF they had to PM it then they know its something that shouldn't have been said in the first place.

Second, you have to be armed to stand in the battle. Im not going to has it up here but I am just trying to get the point into your thick head that if you have no experience with it then you have no credibility talking about it. You don't see me posting about thermo quantum physics for a reason, I am just plain white trash redneck and proud of it. :salute:

As far as hurting another animal, you should really look at how those f/t are made. Im not just talking about the kill either. ;)

There are no "ill feelings" here. This is part of a job here for the members and I don't take anyone here that I do not personally know to heart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Staring off, IF someone is attacking you privately that is a battle for one of us MODs to handle.
That is something that is sad and cowardly, IF they had to PM it then they know its something that shouldn't have been said in the first place.

Second, you have to be armed to stand in the battle. Im not going to has it up here but I am just trying to get the point into your thick head that if you have no experience with it then you have no credibility talking about it. You don't see me posting about thermo quantum physics for a reason, I am just plain white trash redneck and proud of it. :salute:

As far as hurting another animal, you should really look at how those f/t are made. Im not just talking about the kill either. ;)

There are no "ill feelings" here. This is part of a job here for the members and I don't take anyone here that I do not personally know to heart.

---

You see , you've just referred to my " thick head " .... that's kinda the thing that I was talking about and the type of comment that winds me up especially that considering my tested IQ - the comment couldn't be more incorrect .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

You see , you've just referred to my " thick head " .... that's kinda the thing that I was talking about and the type of comment that winds me up especially that considering my tested IQ - the comment couldn't be more incorrect .

---

Maybe you need to learn the meaning of some common phrases first.......................
Take it how you want but you are hardheaded and STUBORN.
Im done trying to get on level ground with you.
For some reason all you want to do is bump heads and I can promise you that mine is a lot harder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

You see , you've just referred to my " thick head " .... that's kinda the thing that I was talking about and the type of comment that winds me up especially that considering my tested IQ - the comment couldn't be more incorrect .

---

So you don't like that, but you have no problem starting things off telling everyone they are unreasonable, wrong, insensible, barbaric, and you'd have to lower yourself to do things they do like feed live?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

You see , you've just referred to my " thick head " .... that's kinda the thing that I was talking about and the type of comment that winds me up especially that considering my tested IQ - the comment couldn't be more incorrect .

---

Being thick-headed has nothing to do with intelligence; it has to do with you not getting a point when others have explicitly explained it to you and continuing to say/do something when you've been given evidence to the contrary. It means you're stubborn, not stupid.

If you really are bothered by the negative commentary as much as you say you are and legitimately can't understand why your comments come off as judgmental, then maybe you should just stay away from live-feeding threads. I'm not trying to tell you you can't comment on them or anything like that, just that it sounds like you'd be happier if you didn't since you can't seem to find a happy medium of expressing yourself in a way that this community finds acceptable on that issue.

Oh for god....

My Daughter is autistic, eight of my best friends are on the spectrum, and most of them have told me that I have aspie traits enough that I should consider going to get a formal diagnosis. Absolutely none of that prevents me or them from carefully considering reasoned stances and adding new points of view to our assessment matrix. Please, don't use your diagnosis as a way to excuse being a condescending jerk, it makes the rest of us look bad.

"normal" http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...630f0782be.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Maybe you need to learn the meaning of some common phrases first.......................
Take it how you want but you are hardheaded and STUBORN.
Im done trying to get on level ground with you.
For some reason all you want to do is bump heads and I can promise you that mine is a lot harder.

---

With all due respect , again this could simply be a cultural thing , but if someone over here in the UK referred to you having a thick head or as " being thick " it would be taken as an serious insult .

Error ....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Being thick-headed has nothing to do with intelligence; it has to do with you not getting a point when others have explicitly explained it to you and continuing to say/do something when you've been given evidence to the contrary. It means you're stubborn, not stupid.

If you really are bothered by the negative commentary as much as you say you are and legitimately can't understand why your comments come off as judgmental, then maybe you should just stay away from live-feeding threads. I'm not trying to tell you you can't comment on them or anything like that, just that it sounds like you'd be happier if you didn't since you can't seem to find a happy medium of expressing yourself in a way that this community finds acceptable on that issue.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Being thick-headed has nothing to do with intelligence; it has to do with you not getting a point when others have explicitly explained it to you and continuing to say/do something when you've been given evidence to the contrary. It means you're stubborn, not stupid.

If you really are bothered by the negative commentary as much as you say you are and legitimately can't understand why your comments come off as judgmental, then maybe you should just stay away from live-feeding threads. I'm not trying to tell you you can't comment on them or anything like that, just that it sounds like you'd be happier if you didn't since you can't seem to find a happy medium of expressing yourself in a way that this community finds acceptable on that issue.

---

As I just explained in the UK calling someone " thick headed " is the same as calling someone " thick " or " stupid" .... that's why I took offence at the " thick" comment .

As to " staying away from the live feeding threads " it is something I said I would do a couple of days ago and I have successfully avoided ALL the live feeding threads since . I've mentioned this point repeatedly in recent posts .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Oh for god....

My Daughter is autistic, eight of my best friends are on the spectrum, and most of them have told me that I have aspie traits enough that I should consider going to get a formal diagnosis. Absolutely none of that prevents me or them from carefully considering reasoned stances and adding new points of view to our assessment matrix. Please, don't use your diagnosis as a way to excuse being a condescending jerk, it makes the rest of us look bad.

---

As you know so many autistics you will be aware of the fact that we / they are all so very , different and behave / react to things very differently whilst at the same time sharing a basic umbrella of Autustic traits ....

OK cookie I've read a lot of what has been said over the last while, and here's my :2cent:

I get that lots of people are different. Culturally, experience wise, etc. No one here is really out to get you, I promise (except for maybe those PMs, some folks are jerks). Much of this site is debate and education, whether about feeding, or proper temps (which seems to vary slightly), to the "can my snake love me" bit. I get that you maybe process stuff differently than some people. But don't automatically assume that if someone says "thick headed" or something that it means what you think it means coming from them. There are likely to be some translation errors in slang terms and the like. Ask, don't assume :rolleyes:

I also get that you're intelligent, but that being said, it would really help your case if it didn't sound like there was some moral high ground to hold here. Due to the differences in culture or whatever that's how it reads sometimes. And you, like the rest of people, would be offended if I said I held the moral high ground for any reason, in regard to how you keep your snakes.

Anyhow, just my thoughts, cause I've been pondering the situation for awhile.

Looking forward to seeing some pics introducing your scaly family :D:snake:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anicatgirl

OK cookie I've read a lot of what has been said over the last while, and here's my :2cent:

I get that lots of people are different. Culturally, experience wise, etc. No one here is really out to get you, I promise (except for maybe those PMs, some folks are jerks). Much of this site is debate and education, whether about feeding, or proper temps (which seems to vary slightly), to the "can my snake love me" bit. I get that you maybe process stuff differently than some people. But don't automatically assume that if someone says "thick headed" or something that it means what you think it means coming from them. There are likely to be some translation errors in slang terms and the like. Ask, don't assume :rolleyes:

I also get that you're intelligent, but that being said, it would really help your case if it didn't sound like there was some moral high ground to hold here. Due to the differences in culture or whatever that's how it reads sometimes. And you, like the rest of people, would be offended if I said I held the moral high ground for any reason, in regard to how you keep your snakes.

Anyhow, just my thoughts, cause I've been pondering the situation for awhile.

Looking forward to seeing some pics introducing your scaly family :D:snake:

---

Well thank you for at least understanding my problems and issues , somewhat ..
On this forum I seem to be on the defensive all the time which isn't at all pleasant ... It makes a nice change to get a normal response .

On the point about photos .... I think I've already posted a few up in here in various threads . There's certainly a couple of my Snow Boa and maybe a couple of others . ... I'd be reluctant to post any more in the future as I appear to be public enemy No1 and I daren't even imagine some of the comments the photos ' may' receive .

I have apologised repeatedly for any upset I have caused in the live feeding threads and as I promised days ago I have refrained from participating in all the live feeding threads .

Thank you !

I'm seriously considering just being a lurker and observing the interesting threads but not contributing . It will probably suit all concerned parties .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asherah

You don't happen to be Sheldon Cooper in disguise as a snake owner do you? These threads are Big Bang Theory-ish.
:)

I've been watching things unfold quietly from the sides and feel like coming out of my lurking status.

In all seriousness just take a step back and give yourself a moment to reflect and gather yourself. You have a condition that makes it difficult for you to catch the tone of a conversation so therefore it makes it doubly important that you really evaluate and think about what your saying. You are aware of this condition, but it seems as if you are using it as a catch all excuse for behaving badly rather than taking responsibility for the issues. Your comments are in general lacking empathy and totally refusing to see anyone else's side of the conversation. That doesn't make it a debate that makes it you ranting about a cause that you have suddenly turned into a "holier than thou" trip.

You don't agree with live feeding? Great, don't feed live, but that doesn't mean that others will choose to do the same thing you did. It does not give you the right to belittle people for their choices.

You feel you are being attacked. Terribly sorry about that sensation, but you must also take some responsibility for that, considering the comments you also made. Some of those were not very nice either.

I'm not saying you are totally in the wrong, you were trying to start a debate that didn't go so well, but you aren't totally in the right here either.

---

Funnily enough Big Bang is possibly my fave comedy series ... I only find American comedy series funny as the British comedy series are 99% garbage in comparison . Sheldon is obviously my favourite TV character and I can relate to him so very easily :)

I understand being on the defensive. I've gotten some ridiculous responses on my Facebook from PETA people, which you may or may not know of. "Animal rights activists" really using their status to destroy pets and such. Any of their BS puts me on the defensive.

Aaaanywho. Just post a thread of photos :D I and a bunch of other people would look at them. And anyone who has mean things to say to pretty snakes should just get off the forum. You kinda jumped deep into the debate pool and skipped the "Look guys here are my awesome reptiles!!!" part.

I know you've apologized. I've read. And to you that is correct and totally makes sense. Some people may have a hard time believing it because of what they have perceived as your "attitude." Just prove them wrong if you choose to continue posting. Keep an open mind friend :gj:

Let me ask you this Zinc....do you like fishsticks?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anicatgirl

I understand being on the defensive. I've gotten some ridiculous responses on my Facebook from PETA people, which you may or may not know of. "Animal rights activists" really using their status to destroy pets and such. Any of their BS puts me on the defensive.

Aaaanywho. Just post a thread of photos :D I and a bunch of other people would look at them. And anyone who has mean things to say to pretty snakes should just get off the forum. You kinda jumped deep into the debate pool and skipped the "Look guys here are my awesome reptiles!!!" part.

I know you've apologized. I've read. And to you that is correct and totally makes sense. Some people may have a hard time believing it because of what they have perceived as your "attitude." Just prove them wrong if you choose to continue posting. Keep an open mind friend :gj:

---

Thanks .. A quick look at my profile will show that I've received many thanks on my previous post history with just a minority of 'dislikes ' .
I certainly never set out to earn this cartoon- like ' bad guy ' label I have acquired over LiveFeedGate .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnakeBalls

Let me ask you this Zinc....do you like fishsticks?

---

To be honest again .... I have no idea what they are. .. ..

Weeelll they are basically compressed, breaded, and either baked or fried fish. In the unnatural form of about 2cm by 10cm stick of "fish". I dunno how this applies lol, SnakeBalls.

What do you like to eat? On that note. You may have to educate some on your home :confusd:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anicatgirl

Weeelll they are basically compressed, breaded, and either baked or fried fish. In the unnatural form of about 2cm by 10cm stick of "fish". I dunno how this applies lol, SnakeBalls.

What do you like to eat? On that note. You may have to educate some on your home :confusd:

---

Ahh ... We in the UK call them Fish Fingers and they are something I do have occasionally ...

I like ' many ' autistics have a very narrow list of things I eat .
I have the same breakfast and supper and usually the same dinners / lunch EVERYDAY !
I have a different evening meal as I have that meal with my good wife and she likes a bit of variety :)

No idea why we are discussing food though :)

Meh. Curiosity on my part. I enjoy talking to people from different places. :D

http://harry.buttle.free.fr/wp-conte...fishsticks.jpg

A simple experiment/joke, just trying to lighten the situation :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnakeBalls

http://harry.buttle.free.fr/wp-conte...fishsticks.jpg

A simple experiment/joke, just trying to lighten the situation :)

---

Ah .... I'm not familiar with that series ... Family Guy / American Dad ??

The only cartoons I enjoy are pretty old apart from possibly Duckman and to a lesser extent The Simpsons ..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnakeBalls

http://harry.buttle.free.fr/wp-conte...fishsticks.jpg

A simple experiment/joke, just trying to lighten the situation :)

---

My favorite episode of South Park. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anicatgirl

Meh. Curiosity on my part. I enjoy talking to people from different places. :D

---

Sorry .. My last sentence about discussing food wasn't meant for you , it was really aimed at SnakeBalls who has just explained.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jclaiborne

I was bored so I spent about 5 minutes flipping through some of the posts you have made and already see why things are a "bit shakey". Everyone has already pointed it out to you so there is no need to dive into that anymore, but honestly this thread that you created seems like you are looking for people to go "aww he really is a nice guy" etc. Anyone can create a thread and apologize/justify their actions. A change in attitude will speak louder than you talking about yourself. Just my 2 cents.

---

Actually, if he's somewhat socially inept (due to his autism) as he stated in the first post (I am too, for similar/the same reasons) then I can vouch that when you get yourself into a social situations that become too hot for you to handle, and have anxiety over it, sometimes the only thing you can think to do is apologize. It sounds like he experienced anxiety over the reaction to his F/T thread. It's not easy to know how to 'do the right thing' in social situations when you view the world/function very differently from most people. I can't speak for him, but in my situation, there isn't a social que that naturally makes sense -- it was something I had to work very hard to learn and have to think about very hard to know how to react to. Most social norms/situations absolutely are baffling. When you upset people, you don't always know why or what it is you did, but you do feel bad and you don't want to upset people.

I apologize constantly to people. I often say or do 'abnormal' things in a social situation, or state a bold opinion with bluntness that's considered rude, and by the time it's over and people have forgotten/gotten over it...I haven't, and I blurt out an apology that makes it way more awkward. Sometimes I apologize for that apology.

I agree with your point, actions speak louder than words, but this post might be sincere albeit awkward, and not a ploy for attention or forgiveness. Saying sorry is also awkward, it'd probably be easier for him to just leave and go to a different forum. I feel like apologizing and showing interest in people not being angry with him is probably a fairly sincere gesture. He also wanted suggestions, and seemed interested in feedback as to why people felt the way they did. It takes cojones to open yourself up knowing you might get torn apart for it.

If I thought he was just a jerk I wouldn't have even bothered to reply to this thread (if he was just a jerk I'm not sure he would have bothered to post it). But when someone doesn't innately do very well in social situations explaining what they did that was upsetting is key for improvement. And he asked, because if he's anything like me, sometimes you have to ask to know. Much of what I've learned came from awkward asking.

But that putting the world 'live' in all caps though. Ugh, that drives me nuts for come reason. :2cent:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Running Elk

But that putting the world 'live' in all caps though. Ugh, that drives me nuts for come reason. :2cent:

---

My reason for capitalising 'live' was just to highlight the 'act' to be honest . The recent thread " Mouse bit my snake " has some interesting comments in it . Considering it is apparently so safe and natural and risk free it's kinda odd how many seem quite at ease giving out advice on how to treat the bites on the snake - almost as though these things are common place. Quite a few gory stories surfaced in there , just a pity they didn't contribute to the live feeding threads I was struggling in , I'm guessing peer pressure .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Running Elk

Actually, if he's somewhat socially inept (due to his autism) as he stated in the first post (I am too, for similar/the same reasons) then I can vouch that when you get yourself into a social situations that become too hot for you to handle, and have anxiety over it, sometimes the only thing you can think to do is apologize. It sounds like he experienced anxiety over the reaction to his F/T thread. It's not easy to know how to 'do the right thing' in social situations when you view the world/function very differently from most people. I can't speak for him, but in my situation, there isn't a social que that naturally makes sense -- it was something I had to work very hard to learn and have to think about very hard to know how to react to. Most social norms/situations absolutely are baffling. When you upset people, you don't always know why or what it is you did, but you do feel bad and you don't want to upset people.

I apologize constantly to people. I often say or do 'abnormal' things in a social situation, or state a bold opinion with bluntness that's considered rude, and by the time it's over and people have forgotten/gotten over it...I haven't, and I blurt out an apology that makes it way more awkward. Sometimes I apologize for that apology.

I agree with your point, actions speak louder than words, but this post might be sincere albeit awkward, and not a ploy for attention or forgiveness. Saying sorry is also awkward, it'd probably be easier for him to just leave and go to a different forum. I feel like apologizing and showing interest in people not being angry with him is probably a fairly sincere gesture. He also wanted suggestions, and seemed interested in feedback as to why people felt the way they did. It takes cojones to open yourself up knowing you might get torn apart for it.

If I thought he was just a jerk I wouldn't have even bothered to reply to this thread (if he was just a jerk I'm not sure he would have bothered to post it). But when someone doesn't innately do very well in social situations explaining what they did that was upsetting is key for improvement. And he asked, because if he's anything like me, sometimes you have to ask to know. Much of what I've learned came from awkward asking.

---

Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that ! It's a wonderful post and very insightful .

Well I offered my advice simply as what I know to treat any snake wounds. Mine has never been hurt by a feeder. But I also make sure I know how to deal with injuries before they happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anicatgirl

Well I offered my advice simply as what I know to treat any snake wounds. Mine has never been hurt by a feeder. But I also make sure I know how to deal with injuries before they happen.

---

Funnily enough I was actually thinking of a couple of the other contributors , one mentioned that he's treated many other far worse bites than the one shown ....... it's very wise to be prepared as you are .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

The recent thread " Mouse bit my snake " has some interesting comments in it . Considering it is apparently so safe and natural and risk free it's kinda odd how many seem quite at ease giving out advice on how to treat the bites on the snake - almost as though these things are common place. Quite a few gory stories surfaced in there , just a pity they didn't contribute to the live feeding threads I was struggling in , I'm guessing peer pressure .

---

If you reread the first post in that thread you'll see that the OP was not monitoring the feed very closely. Besides this, that bite is about the equivalent of a skinned knee on a kid. Just because you treat something doesn't make it a life threatening catastrophe. Superficial damage that heals completely after a few sheds doesn't much count in my book.

Now, pictures like that would make acceptable ammunition for your anti-live campaigns. At least it's a "wound" that occurred during a feeding time strike unlike your last choice. Just have to find a way to spin this out of proportion and make it seem like that snake is on death's door.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

My reason for capitalising 'live' was just to highlight the 'act' to be honest . The recent thread " Mouse bit my snake " has some interesting comments in it . Considering it is apparently so safe and natural and risk free it's kinda odd how many seem quite at ease giving out advice on how to treat the bites on the snake - almost as though these things are common place. Quite a few gory stories surfaced in there , just a pity they didn't contribute to the live feeding threads I was struggling in , I'm guessing peer pressure .

---

It's only interesting because you can find something that fits your agenda. So do you really care about the snake that got a small nibble or because you think you can take advantage of it to score imaginary internet points?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John1982

If you reread the first post in that thread you'll see that the OP was not monitoring the feed very closely. Besides this, that bite is about the equivalent of a skinned knee on a kid. Just because you treat something doesn't make it a life threatening catastrophe. Superficial damage that heals completely after a few sheds doesn't much count in my book.

Now, pictures like that would make acceptable ammunition for your anti-live campaigns. At least it's a "wound" that occurred during a feeding time strike unlike your last choice. Just have to find a way to spin this out of proportion and make it seem like that snake is on death's door.

---

It's nothing to do with spinning anything out of proportion I was just passing an opinion on the various posts in the thread .... We could say that you are actually making light of the situation if we are playing that game . If I did want to add fuel to the fire I could have posted something provocative but I refrained from doing that very thing , as I promised I wouldn't get involved in any live feeding discussions . Incidentally , there's also a post mentioning many , worse bites to a keeper's snakes and there's another post describing the many varying injuries seen caused by rodent bites.


If I'm being totally honest , I'm still bemused by the whole live feeding thing ..... experienced people worry about their snakes , what and when to feed , where best to feed , the humidity and temperature levels , the substrate , the amount of room they have and even types of lighting etc etc etc .

So we all go through all this trouble and worry to keep out precious animals healthy and happy and then some go and drop a live , proven killing machine ( adult rat ) who's going to fight for it's life INTO an enclosed area WITH the snake .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foxton

It's only interesting because you can find something that fits your agenda. So do you really care about the snake that got a small nibble or because you think you can take advantage of it to score imaginary internet points?

---

Well if you'd read my previous posts you'd see that I promised to not get involved in any more live feeding debates as this forum as obviously this isn't the place to discuss such sensitive matters . I absolutely care about the health of the snake , that's my main priority, it was just lucky that it took a lump out of it's side rather than puncturing one of its eyes which was just as possible.