Feeding f/t for the first time

First off, I want everyone to know that I am well aware that it's not a huge deal for a BP to go off feed or skip a meal. But I have horrible anxiety & stuff like this will keep me awake for days so I need some reassuring...

Today, is my new 6 month old BPs feeding day. I got him at a local expo last Saturday. The breeder told me he was feeding him Rat Fuzzies & his feeding day was Thursday. So I got the rat & so on & things were good.

I was planning on feeding him during his "active" hours around 630ish when he normally starts to get up & moving but my Softball coach let me know that practice ha been moved from 5-7 & I'm really sick so I didn't want to have to wait until that late just so I could go to bed early (lol), so I decided to try to feed him now. He was in his hideout sleeping so I gently picked it up & stroked him to let him know I was there. Could this be why he wouldn't take the food because he was just awoken or does it even matter?

& then I got him out to put him in his feeding tub that I have for him & all he did was curl up in a ball. I dangled the rat, I moved it around, made it look like he was scrumptious but he didn't move at all. So I gave up & put him back in his tank so that he could relax. I was planning on trying again after i get home from my practice while he's not asleep. Would that be okay to try again later today? Tomorrow? Or do I just need to wait until next week? Anything will help. Trying not to get myself upset. I just want the best for my Ball. Thank you!


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There will be many comments from much more experienced owners than I. However, put him back in his normal enclosure ( feels secure ), limit handling (feels secure), and give him time to acclimate (feel secure), don't stress it, wait a few days ( feels secure ). Then offer.

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Originally Posted by goshelby

then I got him out to put him in his feeding tub that I have for him & all he did was curl up in a ball.

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That's your problem. Feed him in his enclosure, not a separate one.

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Originally Posted by sho220

That's your problem. Feed him in his enclosure, not a separate one.

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Totally agree with this. Also how did you warm up the rat before you offered it?


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I don't want him associating my hand with food. Everything that I've read says it's best to feed them in a separate tub or container so that they associate that container with food to avoid getting bit by him thinking my hand reaching into the tank is food. & I thawed it in a bowl full of warm water for 45 minutes or so in a small sandwich baggie & then when it was thawed all the way through it was a little damp so I blowed dried it to get it dry.
I'm not going to feed him in his enclosure, I've read way too many books and articles and caresheets about how they will (or could, of course) mistake your hand for food.
I think it was just too much for him. He's only been here for a week.


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If I fed him in his tank, should I try to do it again tonight or wait a couple days? That's what I really need to know.


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Originally Posted by goshelby

I don't want him associating my hand with food. Everything that I've read says it's best to feed them in a separate tub or container so that they associate that container with food to avoid getting bit by him thinking my hand reaching into the tank is food.

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They don't associate things like containers with food...they associate rodent scent (and to a lesser degree a heat signature) with food...

Obviously but what I don't want is for him to get used to just food dropping into his cage.


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I'll try whatever, I just want him to eat.


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Originally Posted by goshelby

Obviously but what I don't want is for him to get used to just food dropping into his cage.


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Obviously you've already got it all figured out...

I wasn't asking to be beleaguered, I just needed to know when I should try again & I don't think that question has been answered yet. I know what I'm doing, whether it's in his cage or not. I know of plenty BPs that eat out of their enclosure.


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First, give him a few more days. Trust me, my anxiety about my snakes eating has dropped considerably after being here long enough. Your snake will be fine waiting, it'll just (maybe) make him more inclined to eat next time.

Next, go ahead and try feeding him in his,enclosure, you may have more success. Handling before feeding can stress them, and no one wants to deal with a feeding response when the smell of rat is still in the air. I used to feed in a separate container as well, but I had much better responses after I switched to feeding in the enclosure. They feel secure and can move themselves back into their hide when they are done eating, no need for your hands to get involved at all. You're more likely to get tagged moving from one spot to the other anyway.

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Originally Posted by goshelby

I don't want him associating my hand with food.

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Complete and total myth. Let me say that again, and let it sink in...Complete and total myth.

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Originally Posted by goshelby

Everything that I've read says it's best to feed them in a separate tub or container so that they associate that container with food to avoid getting bit by him thinking my hand reaching into the tank is food.

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Well, it can't be EVERYTHING you've read, because you will have a hard time finding anyone here who thinks you need to feed in a separate enclosure. Complete and total myth.

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Originally Posted by goshelby

I'm not going to feed him in his enclosure, I've read way too many books and articles and caresheets about how they will (or could, of course) mistake your hand for food.

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Ok, with all of your experience, riddle me this...if Ball Pythons have the ability to associate your hand with food, won't they start striking the dog crap out of your hand EVERYTIME you put your hand in there because they figure you MUST be getting ready to put them in their feeding tub?....and why wouldn't they associate your hand with food when you go to pull them OUT of the feeding tub, WHILE they are still in feeding mode?

COMPLETE AND TOTAL VODOO SCIENCE...

You clearly don't get what I'm saying. When put in a separate container they will learn or figure out or whatever the heck you want to call it that that container is for food. That when you grab him & he is placed in a that same container after feeding day upon feeding day they will know thats what it's for. If he constanty sees you lowering down a rodent into his cage every feeding day he could get your hand mistaking for food. Never once did i say ALL BALL PYTHOND WILL DO THIS I just don't want to take the risk. But again, thank you all for never answering the question that I've like three times. & I tried feeding in his cage earlier too & he wanted nothing to do it. I even left it in there for a couple hours. Didn't work, so I'll try again next week. But thanks for the "great" advice. Don't try to talk down to me just because he's my first snake. I'm not stupid.


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I just wanted to know if waking him up from his sleep could be a factor as to why he wouldn't eat & when to try again. & I didn't ask got an opinion over where I should feed him. Everyone does things differently that works for them. It's not like you've never heard of someone who feeds their Balls in a another tub just for feeding.


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Originally Posted by goshelby

I'm not stupid.

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No, just very clearly misguided in your thinking. But hey, you go ahead and do what you do. When your snake continues to refuse food because you keep removing him from his secure environment and throwing him in a strange looking and smelling box, just start another thread and we will again, offer you good advice....

Good Luck :gj:

I'm sorry, but you are having all of the same problems we all had when we started out, to some degree. We are doing our best to answer you, it's unfortunate that you aren't getting the answer you want.

The answer you need is, he'll eat when he's ready. There is no quick dirty secret. You've had him a few weeks, he may go another 2 months without eating, or maybe he'll eat tomorrow. Respect on these forums will get you a long way, and that starts with listening to the people who have been through it. My pastel girl is my second snake, and she wouldn't take a meal on her own for 2 months. Now she's eating every 5 days like a champ. Give your snake time, don't handle him, and be patient.

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Did you not see what I wrote? i tried feeding him in his enclousure, he wanted nothing to do with it. Im pretty sure it has nothing to do with where he is at this point. Just doesn't feel like eating today.


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Respect? I'm pretty I'm the one getting attacked because I chose to feed him in a separte area. Because no ones done that before. (Sarcasm.) No ones disrespecting anyone, I'm just sinply saying I didn't ask if feeding him in a separate area will affect him. I know way to many people that do what I'm foing & their snake is fine. & it's not like I totally put off what everyones said, I tried doing it in his enclousure. He didnt want it. I'm not being obvilous to that,


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:popcorn: This is fun...

Well I'm done replying because I rest my case & I now know what I can do but definitely not by any of this.


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Originally Posted by goshelby

I just wanted to know if waking him up from his sleep could be a factor as to why he wouldn't eat

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Ball Pythons are ambush hunters. They can go from dead asleep to knocking the absolute cat crap out of a rat in no time flat. That's not your problem. Not having someplace to ambush FROM, might have something to so with it. But you already have your mind set about that.

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Originally Posted by goshelby

Well I'm done replying because I rest my case & I now know what I can do but definitely not by any of this.


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For someone who knows what they're doing, you sure have a lot of questions...

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Originally Posted by goshelby

Well I'm done replying because I rest my case

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:colbert2:

I fed in a separate container when i was using aspen. But because of the Aspen. But to agree with everyone else. Your hands will be in the tank more times for not food related things


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For the last time I had the rat in his enclousure for 2 hours, Sir. Dangled it at first, got his attention he did not want anything to do with that rat! Even sat it in his tank where the substrate would get accidentally swallowed up too. What don't you understand when I say this


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Whoa i met wouldn't get accidentally swallowed up'


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You know, it just dawned on me that maybe your snake just doesn't want to eat right now :rolleyes:

I don't think I ever said I knew every single thing about snakes @ what not. I know what I've researched & i spent the last 5 months doing that before getting the ball. & like I said, I didn't just diss your guys remarks on feeding in their tank & i tried. & he still didn't feed so clearly that's not the problem so stop bringing it up? It's irrelevant now. From my first to second post in this forum I've tried what you guys said. So now I just need to wait. There's no point in dogging me on why I think it would be best to feed in a separate container. It's an opinion, not a fact. So it's not that big of a deal. This is getting annoying. I liked this site because it was useful but just because someone does something different than how you do it to your snakes, I'm now suddenly "disrespectful?" Don't call me disrespectful. I never dissed anyone. They give their opinion, I'll give mine. End of story. Thanks for anyone who helped, I'll be waiting a week or a little less to try again to see if he'll take the rat in his cage. Now it's just the waiting game.


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Originally Posted by Slim

You know, it just dawned on me that maybe your snake just doesn't want to eat right now :rolleyes:

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I think the snake just doesn't like her...or him...or whatever...;)

Exactly, he just might not be hungry. I figured this all out while everyone was harrassing me about feeding in a different container 😂😂


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Now who are the ones being disrespectful. Just get off this forum, go harrass someone elses questions.


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& CheebaChris420 I'm using Aspen now.


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:tears:

All my snakes could care less what containers are for what or who for where. Its the feeding day that gets them excited and fisty. I havent gotten bit yet but if I ever do I would expect it to be on feeding day. Only snakes I have ever fed out of their enclosures are my king snakes and thats only cause I let them hunt a mouse in my front room occasionally. My king snakes come rite out of feeding response rite after thy finish it tho. My BPs I leave alone till the naxt day.

Wow sorry this thread has gotten so out of hand, I use a hair dryer to warm up my rodents after being in a Baggie in a cup of hot water too :) and now my snakes associate the sound of the hair dryer with food now :) but please keep us updated on your snake. I'd try again next week and see what happens, and feed him in whatever you prefer. How old is your snake by the way? I had some trouble getting my 9 month old to eat when I got him, he didn't eat for a month but is eating regularly now :) so give him some time, and give us an update on what happens.


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First of all, what Is your set up like? Temps, hides, how are you controlling temps, etc? Second, only having your ball for a week, it's still settling in. Husbandry is usually the cause of a non eating young or new snake. Make sure he is secure. Tight hides, proper temps, no handling until he has eaten, say 3 times in a row. FEED HIM IN HIS ENCLOSURE. He will feel more safe there, and more apt to eat. Moving them and cage aggression is a bunch of crap, and a noob move. Also, do not offer food too frequently, as that can stress them out too. If he doesn't eat, leave him be for a week. Offer him what ever he was previously eating. Tell us about your set up, let us help you get it ideal.

Also, there are tons of people that come here daily asking for advice, some, don't like the answers they get, and fight it tooth and nail. There is a ton of experience on these boards, and we know what we are talking about, soak it up.

Is your snake used to eating F/T? Or was he eating live before?

The breeder told me he is used to feeding f/t. & also, I'm not sure how else to tell other people who keep saying things like the advice is from experienced owners & you should listen & what not, I already told everyone I tried feeding him in his enlousure as well, i'm not being completely oblivious to everyones advice. It didn't work. I have 2 hideouts in the tank, one on cold & one on the warm side. Hunidity stays around 55-60%, during the night it comes down a little but i have moss in the tank & a damp towel over the screen to keep the humidity in. The cool side stays around 75-78 & the warm side ranges to 83-88, just depends on the time. I have a thermostat but it's not a great one but it gets the job done. I also have a water bowl, i have a branch in the middle with a couple of little hides attached to it. He never sleeps in that one though, he likes to climb all over it. But thats what my setup is likex


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How are the hides? Are they tight and secure? Think barely fits in it. Also, like I said, he is only a week old. Just because he didn't eat there once for you, doesn't mean he won't. It means he's still settling in, and something to him, isn't right. That's why hes not eating. I would bump your temps to 80 ambient, 90 warm side. You also didn't say how big of a cage he was in. If it's huge, that could be part of your problem. You also didn't say I if you were handling him or not. If you are, dont. But I really think you just need to let him settle in. Ball pythons can be very finicky eaters. A search here should turn up thousands of my snake won't eat threads....

Oh, hes in a 20g terriarum. & hes almost 2 feet when stretched out. & i know hes just settling in so I wasn't really worried, just wanted to know the questions I asked earlier if it couldve been a factor. & ive been trying to get up to 90 it just wont reach so when i get my paycheck on saturday i'm getting a new & hopefully better UTH cause its not very sticky for some reason. & Ive only handled him once since I got him for about 10 ish minutes. But he was really sweet, & wasnt curled, he was crawling up my arm & flicking his tongue & what not. He didnt seem scared or shy. & the hideouts are pretty tight, probably could be tighter though.


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& he's not a week old, he's just been at my house for a week. Not sure if that's what you meant, just making sure. He's 6 months.


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Originally Posted by goshelby

& he's not a week old, he's just been at my house for a week. Not sure if that's what you meant, just making sure. He's 6 months.


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Yes, I meant a week old to you and a new environment.

Okay, just making sure.


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To answer the OP's question which has been answered a few times already: Wait a week before offering another meal. I'd recommend to keep trying in the snake's enclosure. If it keeps refusing to eat, then it does not feel like eating or something is wrong in the enclosure and changes need to be made.


Ahem :soapbx:

Is feeding in a separate enclosure such a bad/wrong thing? We preach to do what is right and what works by the snake correct? Sometimes feeding in another enclosure is the right answer. In this instance(like many others), I do not believe it is the proper road to travel.

I had a baby king snake which would not eat in its enclsosure at all for the first 4 months. It would eat not problem in a brown bag or a separate kritter keeper. Also babysat a BP for 6 months and to get it started eating, I used a shoe box for a month. After that, the snake ate anywhere I put it and deveolped a strong feeding response.

^^ These are exceptions to most of the rules. Advanced/experienced keepers should understand this. Newer/inexperienced keepers will learn their snakes with time and know what to try as they gain experience and receive advice provided questions are asked.

OP(goshelby): Athough you tried what sounds like 1 time to feed the snake in it's enclosure, it sounds like you have already given up attempting this in the future. Sometimes leaving a f/t rodent overnight in it's enclosure will allow the snake to feel secure enough when no one is watching to eat its meal. You should be more open to the advice and criticisms of others and be less of a hard head. Everyone has told you the hand/feeding association is a myth, which it is, please remove your head from your butt, have a seat, stay awhile and listen. You've been doing research for 5 months and had your snake for a week. When I signed up on this forum I had 10 years snake experience, did 4 months of research on why my BP did not eat for 2 months and still had questions. The collective experience on this forum is well over 40,000 years(this is not an exaggeration, we have 40k+ members and if each has 1 year of experience it adds up). There might be a bit of knowledge here which might help.


Doolitle asked questions pertinent to the enclosure which we found the warm side is a bit low. This could be a factor in why the snake did not eat in its enclosure. People are ridiculously quick to jump down peoples' throats before knowing all the information. Especially on the internet. This is also a double-edged sword, if we don't get the information needed then we really can't help people. Extract the information(kicking and screaming if you must) then move forward. As teachers, we need more information so we can assist and help others. If someone is blind(and we do not know the person is blind), we can not show them a picture of a giraffe and expect them to know what a giraffe looks like.

No one jumped down anyones throat except everyone else. I have not so you say "given up", theres just nothing more I can do until next week comes. Ive said this already. Many times. I never said I was going to throw out the enclousure idea either. & like I said, not every single BP is going to be the same. Just because its worked for you & your snake does not mean that it will work for me & mine. I didn't ask anyone to dog me on the feeding place. You people are acting like this is some type of sin, & if anyone does it, they're going to get punished for it. There's honestly nothing else anyone on this forum can tell me. I told everyone that I can't get my UTH to go up to 90 because its not sticking right & that I was purchasing a new one this weekend. So if that's the problem, it will be solved; I already knew this. & I've already said I'm going to have to wait a week to try getting him to feed. I know what I have to do. We've established this. Once he's on a regular feeding schedule, I'll go to the next step; feeding outside his container or just continuing with what i was doing. If he doesn't feed next week or the week after that & my temps are good, I'll try other things. But that will happen when that time comes. He didn't eat yesterday, i kept the rat in there while he was awake for like half the night & he didn't eat it. So since I know what I'm going to do, there's really no point in to keep adding on to this forum. Telling me that feeding him in his enclousure will make eat over and over again is not making a slight difference. It's quite irritating actually, because I understood the first time when someone told me nicely.


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Well, best of luck, seems like there is nothing we can tell you that ya don't already know.

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SHELBY: Don't want to but in to this debacle, but the way I see it, when I post anything on a Public Forum, I do so expecting to receive tons of information from a bunch of different people. Thus, I should expect to receive the same advice from a bunch of different people, and since there is a "meta-thought" on most forums, that advice will probably all be the same.

I will tell you right now that when I first started out with BPs, I fed in a separate container as well. And I had a couple of different people let me know (very nicely) that I should feed in the enclosure. I told them I would take their advice under consideration, and then kept on doing what I had been doing. It was not until I had the snake for about 3-4 months that I stopped feeding in a different tank, and that was because he was starting to get a little nippy when he was still in feeding mode after eating in the tub.

What does all this have to do with you?? Like Pyrate said, don't get defensive when you hear everyone saying the same thing or giving the same advice. The sure-fire method of getting people to continue giving advice is to flat-out reject the advice (for whatever reason). Let people know that you appreciate the help, express any concerns, and then move on. I'm pretty sure I said "Thanks, but I'm gonna keep feeding seperate" when I was first told to feed in the tank.


EVERYONE ELSE: Y'all do seem to be hitting her pretty hard…you can't expect everyone to apply all the advice all at once. I'm coming up on owning a snake for 1 year in March, and I'm just now thinking about switching to tubs over tanks. Did people recommend it to me?? YES!! Did I say no?? YES!! But that doesn't make me a bad person for rejecting the advice.

Thank you for not reading what I wrote and keeping your head firmly implanted up your butt. Have a nice day. :)




Meph, I did defend her in terms of people jumping down her throat which she obviously did not see/understand. My messege was not an attack and apparently needed to be defended against. It encompassed everyone as a collective at various points and not just her, proves a point of her hardheaded attitude.

You're cool Pyrate…not directed towards anyone specific either, just at the general attitude begin shown