Banana/Coral Glow

Can you hear it?

All of those Bananas that have been hidden away and bred like crazy are starting to come out of hiding. Just seen a male for 4500. Guess the real DOWN TO EARTH prices will be coming around real soon. They will be 1200 or less by next year.

I hope your right because I would love to be able to afford one

Me to want. Top of my list.

Sent from my Droid RAZR M using Tapatalk 2

what do you expect with a codom morph that has males producing mostly males?

I was just speaking to two large breeders today about the Banana market. They are holding steady on prices.

Was the $4500 from a large breeder? A 1.0 or 0.1? Male maker or female maker? Important facts as to the price you mention.

Why is this different than any other gene? Price drops are expected. Pinstripes and Spiders are no longer $25K. GHI's were $50K a few years ago.... now $7K. The big breeders are holding steady on prices as the little guys try to make a quick buck. When the little guys dump the few they have then what will be available? Big breeder prices. I highly doubt that a Banana will be $1200 next season.... maybe $2500- $3000.

There are many working with triple gene Banana morphs already that will keep the Banana prices at a relatively stable level. Super Bananas are just around the corner in numbers and will keep the Banana market at more stable levels. People will be vying for the right Banana combinations to make 1.0 Super Bananas.

I have invested in the Banana project at a great point. My 1.0 male maker is setting at over 300g now and should have no problem breeding this fall. He will make my investment back many times over.... and I will not be price dumping.

Yeah?

I'd say it depends on the sex bias thing to be honest.

If that holds true then female maker males might drop a bit but male makers might go up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71ZoSk0vGiY

Male makers are going to be in high demand for a while to come. Mike's video is a great illustration of that.

It will be nearly impossible to make a 1.0 Super Banana from a 1.0 female maker. The video has some profound thinking as to where the Banana market is heading.... and it is not down the toilet despite what many would hope for.

I'm looking forward to maybe picking up a female or two next year. Beautiful morph.


http://i.imgur.com/aHH2BOj.png

Does not say male maker or not.... I highly doubt he just had his first shed. Speckling like that does not come in till usually the 3rd shed or so. That is one I would steer clear of at any price.

Doesn't quite look the quality of this guy on his 2nd shed.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...psdd0c9e63.jpg

The 4500 was a male maker male so I guess that theory is out. They will be 1200 or less by next year. Do you even realize how many bananas are out there? The banana market is on its way down. And faster than what some may want to believe. Don't care which breeders think they are going to hold on to the 10k+ price tag. Not many are going to pay it if they can go get them for 8k+ less. A banana is a banana. Doesnt matter who makes it. Talk to someone like Kevin and see what his thoughts are on the subject. Yes double, tripple, quad, supers and the like will still hold a good Proffitt. Thats a no brainer as its more than one gene.

See,

This is becoming a problem for me - especially in the U.K.

There are a few people selling male bananas - but not a single one of them is stating if it is a female maker or a male maker.

And they are not selling them cheaply either. I have been assuming they were first gen female makers.

Do you assume they are trying to put one over on people who have not looked into it? Or do you say caveat emptor?

To be fair I have never contacted them and flat out asked which the snakes were.

Has anyone speculated about the males produced by a female created with a male maker?

Am I totally misunderstanding how this could go in the next few generations?

"These questions—and many others—will be answered in the next episode of...Soap" ( for the old timers :P )

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek

what do you expect with a codom morph that has males producing mostly males?

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Yep, simple supply and demand. People buy one male and breed it to 8 to 10 females. Producing 10 to 20 more bananas, so supply is growing incredibly quickly.
From a demand side, all the breeder needs is one male banana, so once they get that, they are no longer in the market for another one. So demand decreases as more people get theirs and then are no longer in the market.

$2000-$2500 next year
$800 - $1000 in 2015

omg the sky is falling! the sky is falling! 10 years from now when the next new investment-worthy inc-dom morph is falling below the $5,000 mark, people will be crying about it and having the exact same discussion we're having now. but life goes on and the hobby is still as alive as ever. (if not more so) there have been so many of these banana crash threads. it wont change anything. play with the cards you're dealt and enjoy the game. if you don't like it, fold your hand and cash out.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

There are many working with triple gene Banana morphs already that will keep the Banana prices at a relatively stable level. Super Bananas are just around the corner in numbers and will keep the Banana market at more stable levels. People will be vying for the right Banana combinations to make 1.0 Super Bananas.

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Do any other genes make the banana really look better though? I'm not saying there aren't I just haven't seen many must have combos, which I think will hurt their value long term. Kinda like it has to the champagne.

Have you seen Mike's CG Fire Spider?

Banana Pin/Pastel/LemonBlast

Banana Enchi

Banana Mojave

Banana Butter

Banana Sugar/Calico

The list goes on. The surface is just being scratched. Pinstripes may only be $200, but they contribute to many high end morphs as the Banana will for years to come. Same with Enchis... just a few hundred dollars, but their double/triple gene morphs bring pretty good coin.

I have 5- 6 solid females to pair mine with. I think I will do just fine with a touch of luck from the odds gods.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

I have 5- 6 solid females to pair mine with.

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and people wonder why the prices on these morphs drop so fast..

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Talk to someone like Kevin and see what his thoughts are on the subject.

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I did happen to talk to Kevin today by chance. Is he offering to sell you one for $4500.... great deal if he is.

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek

and people wonder why the prices on these morphs drop so fast..

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So you would buy a high end male and pair it with one female?

Dr. Del

The "male maker "or "female maker" is a very important tid bit and should be stated in sale threads IMO. It has an impact on the price of the animal for as long as its being sold for investment purposes. So far we are still learning about the gene but our male maker has thrown roughly 92% males. Every one of those males should produce the same percentage of males. Thats one of the questions I would ask when buying and I would prefer to buy from someone who has produced enough of them to be sure of what he/she is selling you. That being said I doubt many people are producing females and those who are are probably holding them back (at least I would). Similar to buying heterozygous animals, bananas should be bought from a reputable breeder if male/female maker is an important aspect to your investment.

As for market prices on the banana, Ill just say that a few people getting desperate does not set the market.

Cheers,
Jonas

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

So you would buy a high end male and pair it with one female?

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x2 lol. I'm not a fan of bananas but if i got my hands on a GHI you can bet your butt he'd be seeing as many females as i could put him to lol! Not to make a ton of money, to make sexy combos! :gj:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

x2 lol. I'm not a fan of bananas but if i got my hands on a GHI you can bet your butt he'd be seeing as many females as i could put him to lol! Not to make a ton of money, to make sexy combos! :gj:

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1.0 GHI is next on the short list.... and he will see more than one female as well :gj:

Hope I don't tank the GHI market too :O

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

1.0 GHI is next on the short list.... and he will see more than one female as well :gj:

Hope I don't tank the GHI market too :O

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Dude no worries, just send all your non-holdbacks to me. Problem solved. We don't want the USS GHI to sink! ;)

Where are all the female bananas? Need them to make supers but don't see many of them available. IMO the female banana price should be on the rise. Are breeders giving genetics guarantees on the male maker/female maker bananas?

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Originally Posted by joebad976

Where are all the female bananas? Need them to make supers but don't see many of them available. IMO the female banana price should be on the rise. Are breeders giving genetics guarantees on the male maker/female maker bananas?

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Compared to many other morphs you don't see as many Bananas available... male or female. Females are out there. You said you had a line on one months ago? Should have bought her maybe.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

Compared to many other morphs you don't see as many Bananas available... male or female. Females are out there. You said you had a line on one months ago? Should have bought her maybe.

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I did but was on the fence because of what we are discussing right now. It is inevitable that the prices will come down, just the way supply and demand happens to work out. No one can predict the price of a male maker banana in 2014/2015 but I am certain it will not be $7500 nor will it be $75. The price will eventually plateau and I will buy into the project at that time if it fits into what I am working on.

Also, remember the season is young. Lots of breeders are having late seasons this year so expect to see some more price drops coming in Sept/Oct. Search for banana on KS resulted in 14 hits. Cheapest male maker I found was $5495 and I found some more females which is great. It looks like females may be holding some value from a few months ago.

One posted on fauna last night for 3500.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=412322

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Originally Posted by zues

One posted on fauna last night for $3500.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=412322

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Another fine example of a meaningless, uninformative description of a Banana. Male maker? Female maker?

I would prefer to buy my high end morph from a more reliable breeder. For those of you that want a Banana of unknown origin, then you get what you pay for. I imagine these cheap Bananas will sit around for a while. Its like seeing an ad for a new Corvette for $20K.... something does not add up IMHO.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

So you would buy a high end male and pair it with one female?

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i'm not necessarily saying i wouldnt.. but people wonder why prices drop so fast. its supply and demand, and that's common practice when someone invests that much in a snake. but with that going on everywhere its inevitable the prices are going to drop so quick. that morph is no longer rare, so why would it demand a rare price tag? but in reality, 5-6 females? probably not. i may run him through 3. you're still going to get your investment back and some, but wont contribute to the crash as much. if everyone thought like that, prices may not fall off as fast, but they dont, so people do run them through all their females, thus all these threads of people complaining about investment quality morphs crashing. butcha cant stop it. it's like peeing in the wind.

Oh yes. Lets get a Banana male and pair him to my 10 females! Oh I have 8 females to breed this banana male to! Dang I just got a banana male, I’m gona breed him to my 15 females!
If 30 people have a banana male and think and do this very thing, what’s that do for the market? That’s exactly what a lot of people do. It's ignorant. There are TONS of bananas out there. If people were smart they would choose their breedings wisely and make just a few at a time to sell. Make just enough to further your projects and recoup your initial investment. It's called SUSTAINABILITY. Instead people have to slam as many females to their prized high end morph male as possible so they can help drop the value of the market. Mass production! lol

As far as I was meaning about Kevin. Ask him how he feels about what people have done to the Banana. Ask him how he thinks the banana market is going to look next year.

Anyone who thinks that they wont be 1200 or below next year is just not wanting to see reality. They just dropped from 10k to 8k to 5k and now about 3.5k in a matter of a few months. Last year people were still selling them for 20k.

Makes no difference to me. I will wait till im comfortable with the price fall before I get one. I want one just to have one, not to make money off it, most of the combos are ugly imo. I just wish people would think wisely with their investments. Make it last. Make your investment work for you. Don't just crash the market because you want to sell as many as you can to make a few extra dollars. That my friends is ignorant.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

most of the combos are ugly imo

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i kinda feel the same way. the banana itself is pretty dope, but most of the combos pretty much just look like bananas.. kinda like the albino. it just doesnt seem to bring that much to the table combo-wise. there are a couple neat ones.. but eh.

much like the champagnes too.

and come to think about it, the fact that it doesnt bring much to the table in combos may be another small piece to the giant picture of why they're crashing so fast. some morphs that werent so pricey in the beginning pop some wicked combos and actually go UP in prices (i.e. the enchi). people seem to forget how pricey champagnes were and how quick they crashed.. because now everyone is crying over the banana/coral glow. but the champ was pretty much a dead end when it came to combos.. there are a handful of neat ones, like the banana, but for the most part when stacked with other genes, they're just "eh.." at least IMO..

I have one question for all of you?? The Peppering is it appealing to you? I hate it. I'd rather have a nice toffee or Pastel Lavender albino.


Bananas aren't my thing. Rather get a GHI.

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Originally Posted by Emilio

I have one question for all of you?? The Peppering is it appealing to you?

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no. lol thats why i think the banana will eventually end up like the champagne.

We all have our opinions, personally I think the banana is the nicest morph to ever hit the ball python market. Maybe you have to see them in person to appreciate them?

I like the black spots. I think it looks really neat with the contrast of the white/yellow/and black.

oh i think the banana is a beautiful animal and i've seen a handful in person. i'm not crazy about their freckles, but they still look awesome.. i just think most if the banana combos i've seen dont look that much better (if any) than the original banana. the morph doesnt "blend" well with a lot of other stuff, it overpowers them.. much like the champ.

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Originally Posted by thesnakegeek

i kinda feel the same way. The banana itself is pretty dope, but most of the combos pretty much just look like bananas.. Kinda like the albino. It just doesnt seem to bring that much to the table combo-wise. There are a couple neat ones.. But eh.

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x2

May I add my couple pennies?

In my opinion, the people who will get higher prices for the morph are the people who will consider longer payment plans on them, despite the headaches of them.

In my hunt for another CG, most payment plans I've seen offered (in the contacts I have made) are 2-4 weeks, after a 20-30% initial down payment. If most of us smaller hobbyists had that kinda cash lying around, we wouldn't be asking for payment plans.

I'll be offering 6 months to a year payment plans on any I produce. My animals don't pay my mortgage, so I can afford to help other smaller breeders out a bit.

The guys offering those low low prices want the cash now, payment in full.

I'm still waiting to see what the banana pied looks like... that my main reason for wanting one right now :P

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Originally Posted by towelie4365

I'm still waiting to see what the banana pied looks like... that my main reason for wanting one right now :P

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If it shows pattern it will be amazing.

Are there any indications that it reduces pattern?

A banana lesser isn't reduced, neither is a banana mojave, which I would think would be reduced if it would do that?

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Originally Posted by Jonas@Balls2TheWall

We all have our opinions, personally I think the banana is the nicest morph to ever hit the ball python market. Maybe you have to see them in person to appreciate them?

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Nicest morph to ever hit is the pied, I've seen plenty of bananas I guess we'll agree to disagree.:D

I personally like the base coral glow. I've seen them in person. However, I do agree that all of their combos look very similar to the original and dead end-ish. Like albino, the only ones that wow me are the patterned morph combos. I even think the super CG looks worse than the base single gene.

Either way, I don't think I plan on having one in my breeding program. If I did have one, it'll be just a nice pet like my albino.

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Originally Posted by towelie4365

Are there any indications that it reduces pattern?

A banana lesser isn't reduced, neither is a banana mojave, which I would think would be reduced if it would do that?

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Its all in the breeding.
The snakes posted aren't reduced because the lesser and Banana used were probably busy examples. If someone bred a reduced lesser and banana, the offspring would be reduced. Works like any other breeding.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by Emilio

Nicest morph to ever hit is the pied, I've seen plenty of bananas I guess we'll agree to disagree.:D

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Like I said, opinion. :gj:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Its all in the breeding.
The snakes posted aren't reduced because the lesser and Banana used were probably busy examples. If someone bred a reduced lesser and banana, the offspring would be reduced. Works like any other breeding.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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I was more referring to when its mixed with pied. I don't see any indications that it would be an all-white snake

BTW just to name a few combos that IMO are spectacular.

Pin. Lemon Blast. Cinny. Mochi. Mojo. Calico. And those are just some. I will agree that some combos are blah but IMO thats a good thing, leaves room for other projects not involving the banana. :D Some of the best morphs dont exactly blend well with all others, pied is one example.

Also when people post pics of a banana out of the egg, it really does then no justice, they really start to GLOW after a few sheds.

This guy here has shed a few times and he literally glows, it almost seems unreal in person.

http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps84f2de9a.jpg

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Originally Posted by towelie4365

I was more referring to when its mixed with pied. I don't see any indications that it would be an all-white snake

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Just like years ago there was no indication that a Spider Pied would mainly be white with only some pattern on it's head, or that a Lesser Pied would be white, it's not about the Spider or the Lesser and how busy they are it's about how those gene react with the Pied gene.

Some genes when mix with the pied gene seems to erase pattern while some seem to increase it making the pied combos very low white.

How will the Pied gene will react with Banana/CG gene well we will know when it's done. ;)

Hopefully it will not be the curse of the white snake.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Just like years ago there was no indication that a Spider Pied would mainly be white with only some pattern on it's head, or that a Lesser Pied would be white, it's not about the Spider or the Lesser and how busy they are it's about how those gene react with the Pied gene.

Some genes when mix with the pied gene seems to erase pattern while some seem to increase it making the pied combos very low white.

How will the Pied gene will react with Banana/CG gene well we will know when it's done. ;)

Hopefully it will not be the curse of the white snake.

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True. But the spider gene SEVERELY reduces pattern, and the lesser gene produces BEL's in its super form or mixed with mojave. Similarly, the mojave also reduces the pied's pattern. Super black pastels also have no pattern, and black pastel pieds typically are very high white. I'm not aware of any pied combo that is almost all white that doesn't show that capability in other ways. I hope I'm not wrong, but I'd say it will be patterned

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Hopefully it will not be the curse of the white snake.

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hey now! i dont think white snakes are a curse. lol after all, the solid white snake was once the "holy grail." but i get where you're coming from, white snakes are a 100% dead end.