Heat Tape

Recently a youtube video has surfaced questioning the quality and safety of the new heat tape element that myself and Pro Exotics has brought to the US market. Not sure who this guy is or what his expertise/background in these matters is but here is the response I emailed him:

David-
I just heard about your youtube video. A few inaccuracies in your video that you may want to amend:
1- The Calorique heat tape uses nickel plated copper, not silver for its buss bars. They also use copper without the plating from time to time as well. It is equally easy to solder to each using any rosin core solder.
2- The Calorique heat tape, in my experience, is not all that consistent whether they have a patented computer set up or not. It generally runs about +/- 5% and always has. The new material we are having manufactured does as well.
3-Also, we have had the UL listing done on our element, same as Calorique. The manufacturer being used has an extremely modern facility with extremely modern machinery and standards. A long way from sweatshops. In fact, a very large percentage of homes in S. Korea are heated with this type of element and because of this they have a very well developed element manufacturing industry.
4-The new element has a sturdier, thicker, stiffer laminate material. It is consistent through the entire roll, unlike Calorique who rolls the finished product still hot which leaves it wrinkled and unusable for the last several feet of the roll.
5- I believe you will find the components used in the Calorique element are coming from China.
6- Calorique treats the reptile hobby as an afterthought. I have gone for weeks unable to get element in 2012 because they were too busy to print it. I have been dealing with Calorique for several years and as they have changed ownership the past couple of years all of the problems with them have become steadily worse.
IF there was a manufacturer of this type of element here in the USA OTHER than Calorique I would be happy to consider them, but there is not. The monopoly that they have held has led to an over priced, difficult to get element that is really not all that superior. Have you looked at or tried the new element?

If you would like to discuss this I will be happy to.

Regards-
Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc


Again, not sure how he comes up with his claims but I will be happy to answer any questions anyone has any time!

Rich- don't sweat it, there will always be the "Internet" experts that think they know everything about any given topic. I have had questions about heat tape and came to you through email and in person, because you are probably one of the most knowledgable people in the reptile world when it comes to heat tape. And I will still come to you if I have questions, because you are known for your knowledge, customer service and amazing racks(that work perfectly).

I recently switched all of my cages to the new heat tape. It gives me much more consistent heating than my old heat tape did. I will also say that it feels like significantly higher quality product.

Another A+ product from RBI!

Rich, what is the uncontrolled running temp, and the max sustained operational temp? Have you specs on this yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

Rich, what is the uncontrolled running temp, and the max sustained operational temp? Have you specs on this yet?

---

I just got an order in this morning for some spare strips, I'll plug them in for awhile and see what they hit.

Cool thanks Aaron. Do keep a close eye on it however! Flexwatt has a max operational temp substantially lower the max temp and well it can catch itself on fire the RB stuff isn't the exact same but similar so do be cautious.

For my curiosity, if it hits 120+ there is no point in continuing.

For sure, unregulated heat sources aren't something to mess around with.

I have it setup on my computer test bench. And am monitoring it with a probe from my herpstat

I'll post full results along with room temps etc. Once it hits 120 Which shouldn't be too much longer.

I expected some questions to be sure. I am also very familiar with the self appointed know it all on the net. Went through this with the heat panels and a self proclaimed master of everything a few years ago. I came here immediately with this to start a dialog on the topic that makes some sense, not hysterical, made up internet "facts". I have often opened up dialog on this here in the past for the sole purpose of getting people to pay attention to what they are doing!

Our goal on the unregulated temp was to keep it under 120 and closer to 110-115. There are a huge number of variables that can make a difference in that, biggest ones being room temp and the surface the tape is sitting on. We used an MDF bench top with a 70-72 surface temp. After letting it warm up for 30 minutes we were at 115 +/- 3. In an open air state like that it can run indefinitely at that temp. That is why back heat setup will almost never go bad. When covered by an insulator (tub with bedding) that temp can rise dramatically if unregulated. This will be the same no matter what element you are using. This is where you get into trouble if you are not paying attention.

Test Procedure: 2 feet of 12" 23 Watt per foot THG heat tape was placed on a glass desk then a 1/2" piece of plywood was placed on top (simulating the worst case scenario). I placed a probe from my herpstat in between the flexwatt and the plywood. (in a routed slot) All fans & central heat/AC have been turned off and room temperatures have been recorded with a second herpstat probe along with humidity just for good measure. (herpstat humidity probe)

Time	Heat Tape Temperature in Degrees F	Room Temperature in Degrees F	Room Humidity
12:15	78	78	59%
12:22	100	78	59%
12:28	105	79	59%
12:35	110	79	61%
12:42	115	79	61%
12:48	120	79	61%
12:56	125	79	61%

The temps are still climbing at a fairly consistent rate I will post the highest temperature I get and how long it took to achieve said temperature once the test is complete.

Well it seems to have leveled off at 138 it hasn't changed in 5 minutes so I will call it there. It took about an hour to achieve this temperature.

That is pretty good- I had not tried it with glass. Rate of climb was pretty slow and steady and not much of anything will combust at that temp. You can hold your hand on it. Of course the animals would be parked at the other end of the tub- this is a point I make often to people. Do not over do it on the heat, you will kill animals faster with heat than cold if they have no way to get off of it. Always allow for this and have a gradient!

I actually tested a few elements in a much more "hard core" way. I used a piece of 1" think fiberglass insulation on the top and the bottom of the element. Had very similar results out of both elements.

How does this compare with the same test run on the other tape? I saw that video because a youtube friend had commented, got a little spooked, but I trust science a lot more than a random dude on youtube.

I'll run the same test on my old flexwatt in the next day or so. Keep in mind that the old flexwatt is only 2 feet of 11" 20 Watt per foot

I had very similar results. Again, this varies a lot depending on backround temp and the insulators used and how well they "sink" the heat. To put this in a little perspective- You take a hot shower and wash your hands in water at around 115. The number sounds big but is not. The danger here is that the laminates used (either make) will not tolerate that for ever and will start to break down and wrinkle. Eventually this changes the resistance at the point in the element and it fails.

You want to calculate the wattage density (watts/sq ft.) - the 1" width is your difference in wattage.

The single best feature of the new THG heat tape is the new connector style. We have been waiting for the arrival of the one piece molded wire and plug, rivets already attached. Those just came in, so the new connector style starts shipping next week. Easy to retrofit as well.

We are using a riveted connector that is both simple and secure. It is secured WITHIN the laminate (see the pics below). This connection is not possible with the flex watt product, as the bus bars are not wide enough. We also use an insulating tape to cover the connection, no more clunky two piece plastic insulators. You can trim the tape as needed with scissors. The tape actually fuses together.

You won't have to worry about loose, or loosening, alligator clip sets that often provide a tenuous connection. It is also less expensive. All around, both the heat tape and connectors.

You can use a $2 school supply hole punch from Office Depot to make the holes, and the rivets can be set with a variety of tools. If you are going to be doing dozens (or hundreds) of connections, you can use a professional hole punch and crimper.

3 current sizes- 3", 4" and 12". 6" coming soon.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/e21a73c8f...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/a027260ce...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6ff31dfb5...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/e54e2ed02...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/4addd1f95...qwtoo1_400.jpg

When I saw the video, I had to laugh... the inconsistancies were plentiful and the ignorance was even greater.

This product is amazing. No two ways about it. This is a product that was designed for REPTILES, not contruction like calorique.

There are so many improvements with this brand it's mind blowing. The rivet style connectors are ingenious, the durability, the copper bus & the heat consistency throughout.

We have had nothing but positive reviews here in Canada.

Clearly the gentleman (loosely used term) in the video had an agenda and it wasn't fact based..

C'mon...Really?? "silver" bus lines? "silver" is a better conductor than copper? LOL - sheesh.

I have a few questions,

The first is there a Canadian supplier I would like the chance to tinker with it.

Aaron, That is a tough test there. Did you run an open air test with the product on a hard surface with out something in direct contact? My tubs I have lifted 1/8 inch. I'd be very interested in this result.

My flexwatt the 11 inch hits 143º at 75º room temp uncovered. Too hot to be safe during a failure. The 17 inch flexwatt during the same only hit 88ºF I use it as a secondary heat source even if the primary fails and the fail safe fails it still never hits critical mass.

The connectors are quite elegant, much nicer. I am guessing if one felt so inclined the leads could be soldered to the rivet as well.

I have never been a bit fan of flexwatt it simply gets too hot for my tastes it just never felt 'safe'. I prefer the to see the use of lower wattage heaters there is no real need for a reptile heat appliance to get much over 100º-110º . I am very glad to see you all to take that to heart and also the commercial UTH some of them as well.

I have often wondered if it were possible to have a thermal decay patch built into to the carbon elements. That would melt down at the 130º mark to protect against shorts or thermal gain from contact. I suppose such a thing would be cost prohibitive? Perhaps built into the end of the cord close to the connector a thermal switch option. Just thinking out loud here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

I have a few questions,

The first is there a Canadian supplier I would like the chance to tinker with it.

Aaron, That is a tough test there. Did you run an open air test with the product on a hard surface with out something in direct contact? My tubs I have lifted 1/8 inch. I'd be very interested in this result.

My flexwatt the 11 inch hits 143º at 75º room temp uncovered. Too hot to be safe during a failure. The 17 inch flexwatt during the same only hit 88ºF I use it as a secondary heat source even if the primary fails and the fail safe fails it still never hits critical mass.

The connectors are quite elegant, much nicer. I am guessing if one felt so inclined the leads could be soldered to the rivet as well.

I have never been a bit fan of flexwatt it simply gets too hot for my tastes it just never felt 'safe'. I prefer the to see the use of lower wattage heaters there is no real need for a reptile heat appliance to get much over 100º-110º . I am very glad to see you all to take that to heart and also the commercial UTH some of them as well.

I have often wondered if it were possible to have a thermal decay patch built into to the carbon elements. That would melt down at the 130º mark to protect against shorts or thermal gain from contact. I suppose such a thing would be cost prohibitive? Perhaps built into the end of the cord close to the connector a thermal switch option. Just thinking out loud here.

---

I'll run an open to the air test, maybe even turn the A/C on to cool the room off a little (got to love Florida "winters") at the same time that I test my old style flexwatt

I have a feeling we will prevail in this heat test that more closely resembles the actual reptile application but I would rather watch someone else do it :) I am happy with the results presented. Not a run away train on the temp and a pretty slow curve getting to its peak in a pretty severe scenario. Look at the temp being quoted on the old style 11" in OPEN AIR. Granted 75F room but it will still hit the peak insulated temp found with the new element. Now cover it up?

I agree, much of the element gets warmer than it really needs to. I believe this is an artifact of our hobbies constant need to borrow existing things from other industries. The way we went about it was slightly different. Initially I was after a target temp range and let the wattages fall where it may. Too little and it won't do the job intended or will be running flat out all the time to do so. Too much and it is, well, too much. You accelerate the breakdown of the laminate if things do get out of hand, you stand a hugely greater chance of cooking animals, etc. We tweaked it until it was in the zone we were after and then did the math on the wattages. That is the reason they are a little different than what we are used to up till now. This was not a copy and paste or knockoff exercise as the video might imply. The people behind this did a little thinking and testing first.

As for the thermal decay idea-
One drawback is indeed the cost but there are some other issues. I have played with thermal decay style fuses quite a bit. First is they have to have a significantly higher "break" point than the normal operating temp. If you run too close with them they will blow after an extended period that can be a little unpredictable. No one would be happy if their normally operating element just up and quit after a few months. So where do you draw the line and how consistent will it be in actual practice? Go too high with them and then they really don't accomplish much either. I am working on a new gadget that hopefully will help out with this issue some but we are still a little ways off.

You can get the new element in Canada from Exclusive Snakes. I have also talked to Greg and we will see where he is at when his current supply runs low.

Had to make a correction about a statement I made... Silver is a better conductor but is almost never used because how expensive it is.

My point still remains... that Calorique doesn't use silver bus lines as the video claimed.

The next best conductor is copper which is what is used on the THG Tape.

Yes, silver is a very good conductor. The element we are selling has a silver paste used to make the connection between the copper and the black element lines. It is way to costly and not really necessary to use as buss bars though. Same reason you are not using silver wire in your house. The only explanation I was ever able to get on the nickel plating was that it prevents oxidation of the copper. Not sure why, the copper wire in house wiring oxidizes but that does not prove to be an issue in wire nut connections. Either way, the copper in heat tape is sealed up pretty good. I have some old (years) element I have been using without the nickel and it is not showing any signs of oxidation. Bot solder equally well if that s how you want to connect.

Getting tired and need to get some sleep before the plane ride tomorrow- I forgot to add to Robyn's point on the connectors. The new wire sets we just had made also provide a much needed strain relief on the wire itself by also clamping on to the insulation. They differ very slightly from the pics he put up, I will get new ones made shortly. This has been an issue in my mind with the AMP connectors, it is tricky to get a decent strain relief to take the stress off the copper wire in the cord. Over time with a bunch of wiggling this can be a problem. Fortunately that does not seem to be as big a problem in the reptile hobby as friction across the heat tape itself from tubs sliding in and out constantly. As Aaron pointed out early on, the new element has a much better feel to it. the laminate is a different material and during our examination seems to be every bit as durable, if not more so, as what we are used to. When you try out the new connections you will like them, no two ways about it. Ultra solid, super solid electrical connection, lower cost and lower profile for use in our hobby. I will roll them out this coming week when I get back.

I guess in all of this I would like to make something clear- maybe I am crazy for saying it but I have a pretty low BS threshold. I personally, and I think I speak for PE as well (Robyn?), am not trashing Calorique or their element. Quite the contrary, I was dragged into this by an over zealous internet expert who decided to let his mouth get a little ahead of his knowledge curve. He has told me that he revised his video btw- I have not checked it out yet. Fact is we have all been using the only product available to us for quite some time now. It works and in most situations works well. I do have an issue with being treated as an afterthought due to the industry I am in. Weeks on end without element because they are "too busy with export orders", product coming in trashed almost every time due to complete failure to pack it correctly and the list goes on. Through myself and other dealers you have spent ALOT of money on element over the last few years and all of us deserve the best we can get. A little competition can go a long way for everyone and there is always room to improve. Our goal was to raise the bar a bit and get something that was thought through for this very purpose from the start. Make improvements in the connection process and have something we can all get safer and easier use out of. It is my belief that this discussion and the tests "independent Aaron" has been kind enough to share will prove this out. Inevitably this will cause someone else to raise the bar a little higher, it will probably be us :) but that is how this works. You sit around and look at it but don't act and nothing ever changes.

Hope to see some of you in Pomona this weekend!

I am waiting for mine to get here saturday

Calorique is just some kind of anti oxidant coating if the encapsulation is complete the copper should not oxidize anyway not that it matters either way. Moot point no one uses silver, too costly, if some fool did gold would be a better choice anyway.

I have not played with thermal switches at all. It was just a though that if the panel shorted somewhere (aluminum tape for example) it would over heat and shut down. Again just a thought I have no idea of what the cost might be. I know Kane pads had some sort of thermal protection but they priced out of the market in many ways.

I am glad to see though into increasing the safety level. I would also be interested to see what the heat tape maxes at in a room at or near 80ºF assuming the tape will be used on racks and that many racks are in regulated rooms at or near 80ºF. This is likely the most important heat test. I also believe both Aaron and myself do not have rooms as warm as 80º (i think, Aaron is that correct?) If out of interests sake testing is being done that too would be valuable. It puts more on Aaron's plate I would love to but don't have access to the product to play with, yet anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

Calorique is just some kind of anti oxidant coating if the encapsulation is complete the copper should not oxidize anyway not that it matters either way. Moot point no one uses silver, too costly, if some fool did gold would be a better choice anyway.

I have not played with thermal switches at all. It was just a though that if the panel shorted somewhere (aluminum tape for example) it would over heat and shut down. Again just a thought I have no idea of what the cost might be. I know Kane pads had some sort of thermal protection but they priced out of the market in many ways.

I am glad to see though into increasing the safety level. I would also be interested to see what the heat tape maxes at in a room at or near 80ºF assuming the tape will be used on racks and that many racks are in regulated rooms at or near 80ºF. This is likely the most important heat test. I also believe both Aaron and myself do not have rooms as warm as 80º (i think, Aaron is that correct?) If out of interests sake testing is being done that too would be valuable. It puts more on Aaron's plate I would love to but don't have access to the product to play with, yet anyway.

---

The tests I Posted results above have room temps along with them in the table. My room was sitting 78-79. I can easily test in a room up to 85 degrees and down as low as 68 if people are interested. I do these types of tests on Computer fans/CPU coolers all the time so it's no problem at all. Tomorrow I will be overhauling a few cages and will have some old flexwatt out anyway. I will do a side by side test open face & in an open rack with tubs at a few different room temperatures and see what differences if any there really are between the two.

Aaron,
Sorry I read that and blipped it . Been calibrating colour on 20 computers and 6 printers today and my mind is mush now.

Fl winters... rub it in, I just walked home and I can no longer feel my face. It is -20ºC with the wind chill now... (-4ºF) I am FROZEN....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

Fl winters... rub it in, I just walked home and I can no longer feel my face. It is -20ºC with the wind chill now... (-4ºF) I am FROZEN....

---

And that would be why I stay in the south :rofl:

I just had some time to watch this video, for those of you that don't want to search it:
flexwatt

To be honest, David sounds more like a salesman for flexwatt. I don't get the feeling he has any interest in the reptile community other than making sure everyone buys flexwatt.

I also love how he stresses "cheap knock off" and that some people solder but his ratcheting crimpers are the best method.


ADDED:
I also like that he has to approve posted comments to his video. Guess if he doesn't like them no one will ever see them?

To my mind flexwatt has always been a poor option, its advantages are focused on the keeper and not the kept so to speak. There are a number of UTH made that are superior in most ways. It is really important to see someone addressing the issues flexwatt has and attempting to alter some.

Lets face it is is the simplest product around. It is hard to make something that replaces it that does not resemble it. There are what 3 parts to the heater (bus, carbon element, and laminations) and 3 (attachment, cable and switch) to the optional cord/connectors?

Rob... -25ºC (-13ºF) with wind chill this morning and I am outside most of the day today working.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

-25ºC (-13ºF) with wind chill this morning and I am outside most of the day today working.

---

:weirdface:weirdface:weirdface:weirdfaceNo:weirdface:weirdface:weirdface:weirdface

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

The single best feature of the new THG heat tape is the new connector style. We have been waiting for the arrival of the one piece molded wire and plug, rivets already attached. Those just came in, so the new connector style starts shipping next week. Easy to retrofit as well.

We are using a riveted connector that is both simple and secure. It is secured WITHIN the laminate (see the pics below). This connection is not possible with the flex watt product, as the bus bars are not wide enough. We also use an insulating tape to cover the connection, no more clunky two piece plastic insulators. You can trim the tape as needed with scissors. The tape actually fuses together.

You won't have to worry about loose, or loosening, alligator clip sets that often provide a tenuous connection. It is also less expensive. All around, both the heat tape and connectors.

You can use a $2 school supply hole punch from Office Depot to make the holes, and the rivets can be set with a variety of tools. If you are going to be doing dozens (or hundreds) of connections, you can use a professional hole punch and crimper.

3 current sizes- 3", 4" and 12". 6" coming soon.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/e21a73c8f...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/a027260ce...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6ff31dfb5...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/e54e2ed02...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/4addd1f95...qwtoo1_400.jpg

---

That's a clever fastening idea. Are you selling these on a website?

We will be rolling this out this coming week when I get back from the Pomona show!

- - - Updated - - -

And yes, David very much sounds like a salesman for Calorique.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

http://25.media.tumblr.com/a027260ce...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6ff31dfb5...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/e54e2ed02...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/4addd1f95...qwtoo1_400.jpg

---

I have played with and used this connection for some time now and have to say I am sold. Tuff durable and super easy to install!!!

Rich Are You using new this new Tape in Your racks as well??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

The single best feature of the new THG heat tape is the new connector style. We have been waiting for the arrival of the one piece molded wire and plug, rivets already attached. Those just came in, so the new connector style starts shipping next week. Easy to retrofit as well.

We are using a riveted connector that is both simple and secure. It is secured WITHIN the laminate (see the pics below). This connection is not possible with the flex watt product, as the bus bars are not wide enough. We also use an insulating tape to cover the connection, no more clunky two piece plastic insulators. You can trim the tape as needed with scissors. The tape actually fuses together.

You won't have to worry about loose, or loosening, alligator clip sets that often provide a tenuous connection. It is also less expensive. All around, both the heat tape and connectors.

You can use a $2 school supply hole punch from Office Depot to make the holes, and the rivets can be set with a variety of tools. If you are going to be doing dozens (or hundreds) of connections, you can use a professional hole punch and crimper.

3 current sizes- 3", 4" and 12". 6" coming soon.


http://25.media.tumblr.com/a027260ce...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6ff31dfb5...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/e54e2ed02...qwtoo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/4addd1f95...qwtoo1_400.jpg

---

I am interested in this connection type. Rich, are you saying that it will be available from you? Or is it store bought at home improvment stores? And it looks like the connector is tucked into the laminate. Or am I seeing that wrong?

It does look as if it's tucked. I can't get them big enough on my phone to tell.

I wish this option was available a couple of weeks ago when I ordered my heat tape.

They do fit in between the laminate. This is a great benefit of the wider buss bar. I do know that Rich is selling this new connector.

How do you separate the laminate?

The eyelet does slide between the laminate at the buss bar location, quite easily. You then rivet it in place.

You don't have to separate it at all, the laminate is not sealed at the buss bar location, neither is the flexwatt design.

If you have the THG Heat Tape, and are using the old style clips, you can retrofit to the rivets very easily. Just order new wire sets from Rich at RBI, trim you connection end to remove and clip crimping, punch the holes, and rivet up.

The rivet connection does NOT work with the Calorique flexwatt product, the buss bar is too narrow.

The insulating tape is also super low profile, inexpensive (it is included in each wire set) and the asphalt-y adhesive fuses together where tape and tape touch. The tape can be trimmed with regular scissors.

Thanks!

I never even noticed.

I am out here at the Reptile Super Show in pomona. It is indeed a SUPER SHOW. This is our forst sales event with th e new hookups and they are great. Everyone that see it loves it. Just need to get the glasses on to get the eyelet into the heat tape! The eyelet slips right inside the two layers of laminate and is 80+% covered and concealed. Make a tape sandwhich and all done. Super thin, super solid and super strong. Why didn't we do this years ago? I will get all this on the site for sale this week when I get back. Should be Wednesday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reptilebasics

Recently a youtube video has surfaced questioning the quality and safety of the new heat tape element that myself and Pro Exotics has brought to the US market. Not sure who this guy is or what his expertise/background in these matters is but here is the response I emailed him:

David-
I just heard about your youtube video. A few inaccuracies in your video that you may want to amend:
1- The Calorique heat tape uses nickel plated copper, not silver for its buss bars. They also use copper without the plating from time to time as well. It is equally easy to solder to each using any rosin core solder.
2- The Calorique heat tape, in my experience, is not all that consistent whether they have a patented computer set up or not. It generally runs about +/- 5% and always has. The new material we are having manufactured does as well.
3-Also, we have had the UL listing done on our element, same as Calorique. The manufacturer being used has an extremely modern facility with extremely modern machinery and standards. A long way from sweatshops. In fact, a very large percentage of homes in S. Korea are heated with this type of element and because of this they have a very well developed element manufacturing industry.
4-The new element has a sturdier, thicker, stiffer laminate material. It is consistent through the entire roll, unlike Calorique who rolls the finished product still hot which leaves it wrinkled and unusable for the last several feet of the roll.
5- I believe you will find the components used in the Calorique element are coming from China.
6- Calorique treats the reptile hobby as an afterthought. I have gone for weeks unable to get element in 2012 because they were too busy to print it. I have been dealing with Calorique for several years and as they have changed ownership the past couple of years all of the problems with them have become steadily worse.
IF there was a manufacturer of this type of element here in the USA OTHER than Calorique I would be happy to consider them, but there is not. The monopoly that they have held has led to an over priced, difficult to get element that is really not all that superior. Have you looked at or tried the new element?

If you would like to discuss this I will be happy to.

Regards-
Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc


Again, not sure how he comes up with his claims but I will be happy to answer any questions anyone has any time!

---

Rich

My name is Ed Gilmartin. I work for Calorique, the inventors of thin film radiant heat that manufactures Flexwatt heat tape. When you decided to switch recently to another product we decided we needed to take a look at our reptile business. Although it has only been a few million in revenue thus far we realize their is much more business to be gained from this industry. You are correct that we have treated the reptile heat tape as an afterthought. No one at Calorique comes from the reptile industry and fully understood the portential of this market. Your community are very passionate about it and that is not something we could match. We are now also aware that we are overpriced just as you said. That is why we are now looking for someone from your industry to spear head this product growth and will be manufacturing packaged finished mats that we see on the large websites from a foreign manufacturer. We fully understand that you win some business and lose some over the years and have no hard feelings about you switching but I do have to correct the misleading statements in you post. We are a much bigger company with many different products so we don't want any false statements out there.

1) we use a tin plated copper with a conductive silver buss under the copper. Yes we could use a cheaper copper with out the silver buss but will not risk the product burning out to make a few extra dollars.

2)our product is the most consistent on the market. We invented thin film radiant heat in 1980 and have original installs running flawlessly since then. The fluctuation on our product is +- 3% not 5% as you stated. We got a sample of the THG heat tape and in just over a week it dropped 16%. That is very concerning. Korean companies trying to imitate our technology have been coming and going for the last few years. They cannot get our ink mix correct. It is something we guard tightly. This is done using our state of the art proprietary software that monitors the ink at 10,000 images per second. If it spots a slight imperfection the roll is discarded immediately. We will not cut corners on safety and product reliability.

3)in the US we have tight regulations and Calorique is an ISO9000 certified company. We are the only company with a UL listed radiant heat film. Both THG and Flexwatt heat tape are UL component listed not a full listing. The reason we are UL listed for radiant heat film is because we get rigorous audits by UL in our plant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FriXv_2wUA

This is a link to our manufacturing facility that was recently featured on national television here in the US. I told Dave when he called us that he shouldn't be using the term sweatshop because there is no way of knowing who they actually are. The website has no address or any information except pricing so he would have no way of knowing where and how it is manufactured. It is not a fair statement to make when you don't know who the company is and how long they have been in business etc.

4)we use a number of different sub straights for our products. The ink reacts different in select thickness' of laminate. We use only the best laminate for that watt density. Further more we use only virgin material and never use low quality or reused laminates. We've never had a complaint about the laminate in 30+ years. The claim that the roll is unusable at the end is incorrect. That is something we do before the roll is packaged. No manufacturer should be throwing a whole roll into the market and should trim the "dead ends" that are of no use. Our proprietary software tells us exactly where to cut.

5)Calorique uses only the USA supply chain. Nothing in our product is made anywhere but the USA. I thought you would be aware of this and would like to know where you go the information that we use Chinese material. This is something that is of the utmost importance to us. We are a proud manufacturer in the USA and want to correct anyone who says anything different. We are 100% manufactured in the USA!

6)I commend the new ownership of Calorique. They saw a unique opportunity to keep a manufacturer right here in the USA and invested into it. They have hired close to 10 new people that are highly specialized in thin film and ink technology and plan to add additional equipment. They have staved off offers from government officials in china to keep the plant right here in the USA. I do remember once having to hold off a few days on printing the reptile heat tape to do an overly large order for military targets for the US military.

In another note we can and have tested a similar connector to the new connection system you have. This was done a few years back. We have a lot of different connections depending on the environment it will be going into for all our products. The result was that since the only connection to the buss was the thin edge of the punched area there was too high a risk of arching. We are working on addressing this as it hasn't happened with our tin plated copper with silver buss bar.

Unfortunately we had to address your concerns in this way as opposed to meeting and getting feedback. We were unaware that anything was broken and now that we know that pricing and understanding of the reptile industry is a must we are working on new finished mats and lower costing product. There is more than enough business out there for both of us and we are fully aware that it usually takes around three years to get a distributor back when they have switched to a Korean product. Since losing you as a distributor we have been making contacts in the reptile industry to hire someone. Each and every one of them know your company and speak very highly of you. With our new push in the reptile industry we will be crossing paths regularly and we can enjoy a good working relationship. If you have any questions that you would like to clear up feel free to reach me in the office or at e.gilmartin@calorique.com. If you had any info on the manufacturer of the THG heat tape (address, name, manufacturers website etc) I will be more than happy to post a positive comment disagreeing with the sweatshop comment.

Thanks Rich



Thank you

Ed Gilmartin
National Sales Manager
Calorique LLC
646-369-2527
e.gilmartin@calorique.com
www.calorique.com

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

We were unaware that anything was broken and now that we know that pricing and understanding of the reptile industry is a must we are working on new finished mats and lower costing product.

---

It only took a couple million dollar loss to slow down corporate greed:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Hey Ed
I see that in Canada it was recalled and a class action suit was filed due to fire hazard. In 1996 the company "closed" but now appears to operate under the name "calorique" Can you shed any light on this.

@pitontheprowl. You are misreading what I am saying. Reptile basics were more like $70k - $90k per year. It is a small portion of our business and the industry is much larger than we had realized. I am just trying to get the facts straight. Afer all the hard work we have done to keep our company a proud american company i have to correct lies about where our product is made and what supply chain we use. We are working to correct our pricing by producing much more product that the market can bare. We are not a corporation either. A business man close to retirement decided to buy a local company and keep it right here in the US. For years the Koreans and Chinese have been trying to figure out how our product is so safe, consistent and durable and have been trying to get us to move to Asia but that will not happen. There is no way the owner will have that discussion with all the employees that they no longer have jobs and the manufacturing will be moved to Asia. That would be greed. the great thing is that here in the US there is fair competition but the false statements in rich's post need to be corrected. We have even decided to hire someone from your industry to fully understand the opportunity as well as produce more product to lower the pricing. That is the opposite of greed. I commend caloriques ownership for investing to keep the company right here rather than selling it to an Asian company and making large profits. Everyone has the ability to pick which product they would like to purchase but I would definitely ask a little more on the manufacturer including address, how long they have been manufacturering a product as well as their certifications and audits etc. from the little knowledge I have on your hoppy one thing is very clear that you are very passionate about your pets. Find out a little more about the manufacturer and if that is the product you choose I wish you the best of luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Epic Exotics

Hey Ed
I see that in Canada it was recalled and a class action suit was filed due to fire hazard. In 1996 the company "closed" but now appears to operate under the name "calorique" Can you shed any light on this.

---

Epic

Between 1991 and 1996 builders in Canada were installing radiant heat in the ceiling with gyproc or drywall. There was a major concern that it was a fire hazard in this type of construction. A suit was filed against the three major manufacturers as well as CSA for approving it. They were ordered disconnected in 1996. Calorique returned to UL with a new fire retardant laminate and was approved. Flexwatt never shut down. The name change came with a new owner from a french background. The name was calor (warm in french) IQ (intellegent heat) que was for Quebec. I know it sounds a bit like a diet product as opposed to heat but the new owners toyed around with some Irish names but decided due to Calorique being known as the safest, most consistent product they would just keep the name. Hope this helps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Epic

Flexwatt never shut down.

---

This is what I found on the Better Business Bureau:

" As of October 15, 1996 the Flexwatt Corporation states they are no longer in business."

Here is a thread with containing the data from the tests discussed above: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...21#post1991921