Help with my BP

My son got a ball python the day after Thanksgiving. Bones has only eaten 3x since then. He just won't eat. I am feeding him thawed (frozen) pinkies. I do not have access to live pinkies.

Anyhow, he currently hasn't eaten now in over a month. Just won't do it. I live near Chicago and it is winter here.

His skin is wrinkly and rough. He is not very active right now. I did research on this and thought he might be going into a shed, hibernating or dehydrated. His eyes are not dented. His belly is not pink. I first noticed this last week.

I have done the following steps: put a humidifier in the room with door closed, put a wet towel over cool side of tank, put in a larger water dish and given him lukewarm baths.

I don't know what else to do or what might be the cause of this. I just don't want Bones to die for lack of proper care. This is our first time owning a snake.

Please help me and my boy and my "grand"snake.

Thanks!

First off pinkies are far too small for any sized ball python. You should weigh your snake (in grams) and feed your snake a rodent that weighs 15% of the snakes body weight.

Many things can cause a ball python to stop eating.

How are you heating your tank?

Is there a thermal gradient? A ball python needs it to be 88-92 degrees on one side of the tank and between 78-82 on the other.

How are you measuring your temperatures and humidity?

And finally how old/big is this snake?

Answers to these questions will also help us determine if your snake is dehydrated or in shed. Ball Pythons do not hibernate.

never mind. pictures are not showing up.

I can't see them.

The best way to post pictures is to put them into photobucket then use the "direct link" code and past it into the picture insert tool on this thread (the picture button over the text box)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

First off pinkies are far too small for any sized ball python. You should weigh your snake (in grams) and feed your snake a rodent that weighs 15 This is what we were told to feed it. We purchased it at PetSmart. How do you weigh a snake?

Many things can cause a ball python to stop eating.

How are you heating your tank?
Hot side - daytime heat lamp and nighttime heat lamp. Degrees is approximately 95.

Cool side - under tank heating pad. do not have a thermometer on this side.

Spends time on both sides

Is there a thermal gradient? A ball python needs it to be 88-92 degrees on one side of the tank and between 78-82 on the other.

How are you measuring your temperatures and humidity?
.Temperature being measured by standard reptile thermometer. Just purchased a hygrometer to be installed tonight

And finally how old/big is this snake?
Snake was hatched in September 2011, according to store.

Answers to these questions will also help us determine if your snake is dehydrated or in shed. Ball Pythons do not hibernate.

---

Thanks for your reply.

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/.../Bones/065.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/.../Bones/064.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/.../Bones/062.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

First off pinkies are far too small for any sized ball python. You should weigh your snake (in grams) and feed your snake a rodent that weighs 15% of the snakes body weight.

---

When he did eat, it was 3 weeks apart. If pinkies are not big enough for this snake, why then would he not eat sooner? We tried feeding him starting at 2 weeks out.

Well the reason is that you have some significant temperature problems. I will elaborate in my next post.

would it be possible to see a picture of his belly?

Is the UTH controlled by a thermostat?

if not I guarantee that it is far too hot (likely >110 degrees :O)

95 is a little too hot but this can be easily fixed. All you need is a simple lamp dimmer to limit the power going to to bulb. The lamp needs to stay on 24/7. if the temperatures drop at night your snake will get sick.

If the snake's tank is in someones room I would suggest that you get a infra-red bulb. A infra-red bulb will not bother your snake or anyone trying to sleep. (a infra-red bulb is preferred anyway)

Here is a link to the best bulb to use. I suggest the 75 or 100 watt version:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...uctId=11147193

The thermometers and hydrometers sold at pet stores do not work. there is no other way to say this, but they are a scam... also the "Reptile Specialists" very often do not know what they are talking about you would to believe how many people come to this site in the same situation as you because of this.

You should get this thermometer from Wall*Mart. They only cost $12 and work great.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...nt/photo-3.jpg

what is the temperature of the room that your snake is in?

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/.../Bones/072.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/.../Bones/070.jpg

ok you are really lucky that he isn't burned if your UTH isn't being regulated by a thermostat.

he might be dehydrated, or it might just look like this because of shedding. But I'm leaning towards dehydration.

Does all of this make sense so far?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Is the UTH controlled by a thermostat?

if not I guarantee that it is far too hot (likely >110 degrees :O)

I am assuming the UTH is the light? If so, both the lamps have a rheostat on them to adjust them.


95 is a little too hot but this can be easily fixed. All you need is a simple lamp dimmer to limit the power going to to bulb. The lamp needs to stay on 24/7. if thetemperatures drop at night your snake will get sick.

What is the proper temperature and humidity for both sides of the tank and for daytime and nighttime?

The lamp stays on all the time. They are both 100watt bulbs (infrared and regular)

If the snake's tank is in someones room I would suggest that you get a infra-red bulb. A infra-red bulb will not bother your snake or anyone trying to sleep. (a infra-red bulb is preferred anyway)

We use an infrared one at night.

Here is a link to the best bulb to use. I suggest the 75 or 100 watt version:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...uctId=11147193

The thermometers and hydrometers sold at pet stores do not work. there is no other way to say this, but they are a scam... also the "Reptile Specialists" very often do not know what they are talking about you would to believe how many people come to this site in the same situation as you because of this.

My kids think the guys at PetSmart are very intelligent people. I know better :-)

You should get this thermometer from Wall*Mart. They only cost $12 and work great.

One for each side or one total? Snake is in a 15 gallon tank right now because he is so small.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...nt/photo-3.jpg

what is the temperature of the room that your snake is in?

---

We keep our heat at 66 during the day at 60 at night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

ok you are really lucky that he isn't burned if your UTH isn't being regulated by a thermostat.

he might be dehydrated, or it might just look like this because of shedding. But I'm leaning towards dehydration.

Does all of this make sense so far?

---

yes it makes sense. So what should I do? Continue with baths, humidifier, wet towel? Make sure my temps are correct (obviously)?

I just figured out that UTH means under tank heater. No, it is not regulated by a thermostat? I have felt it and it is warm and I am able to keep my hand on it without it getting burned, if that makes a difference. Should we get rid of the UTH? If I have to fine, but do I need to replace it with something else?

You want to keep both of your heat sources on one side of the tank to create the thermogradient, get the accurite thermometer pictured above, and get a thermostat. http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...7463473&sr=8-1 Spring for the 2 day shipping to get one ASAP. Also one of these http://www.amazon.com/Lutron-TT-300H...7463572&sr=1-1 You can probably find them locally. If you do the free amazon prime trail you'll have your shipment by Friday.

What size enclosure is he in?

What wattage are your bulbs currently?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

You want to keep both of your heat sources on one side of the tank to create the thermogradient, get the accurite thermometer pictured above, and get a thermostat. http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...7463473&sr=8-1 Spring for the 2 day shipping to get one ASAP

What size enclosure is he in?

What wattage are your bulbs currently?

---

bulbs are 100watts

tank is currently 15 gallon

Okay. For now I would turn off the UTH. Too high will most likely be more detrimental to his health than a bit too low. 100 watt should be sufficient to keep the temps up in his tank.

Increase the temps in your home to at very least 72, if not 75, during the day and 70 at night to assist with the ambient temps in your tank. Everyone may be too warm for awhile but it will help your snake a ton.

Mist the tank twice a day and cover the cool side with a damp towel to increase the humidity inside the tank.

a UTH (Under Tank Heater) is the heating pad. Honestly if you have 2 heat lamps the UTH is not necessary

I would change it you so both of the lamps are infra-red (this specific bulb I posted a link to before is he best one on the market)

the proper hot side temperature is 88-92 degrees 24/7

the proper cool side temperature is 78-82 24/7

Only one Acu-Rite thermometer is necessary, the sensor probe will go on the hot side, and the unit itself will sit on the cool side. (the unit has a second thermometer sensor inside as well as the hydrometer sensor)

This is how I have my enclosures set up (I have PVC enclosures made by a company called Animal Plastics, but it will work the same in a tank

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/photo5-1.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/photo4-1.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ant/photo1.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ant/photo2.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ant/photo5.jpg

What kind of bulbs do you have right now?

And I totally agree with using the infra red. They are much better at keeping temps up than any of the other bulbs with the same wattage.

Oops, sorry, my bad. My bulbs are 75W, not 100W. I was confusing them with my beardies' light.

Daytime
http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2752666

Nighttime
http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...122&lmdn=Brand


So, I am extremely confused right now!

Am I supposed to have 2 bulbs on at all times on the tank? Are they BOTH supposed to be infrared?

Looked at Aaron's photo, but it looks like one side is infrared and the other side is not.

Aaron, you have all your BPs set up like that?

Okay... before we knew about using UTHs with a thermostat we used just bulbs because we did not trust them. We use to do day/night switch and don't anymore.

You can use the day bulb during the day and the night bulb at night. In a 15 gallon tank both lights would most likely be waaaaay to much heat and you would not have a thermogradient in the tank allowing him to go where he needs to be for the correct temps.

Without the thermostat I would NOT use the UTH

Increase the temps in your home to 72-75

Place the red bulb in the light hood and place on one side of the top.

Place the hide under the direct center of the bulb. This will make it so that he can climb on top for even warmer temps if he needs to.

Place the water dish on the cool side close the the center of the tank.

Place a hot, damp towel over the top 1/2-2/3 of the tank on the cool side. This will help keep the heat inside of the tank.

With me so far?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by momma_mia

Looked at Aaron's photo, but it looks like one side is infrared and the other side is not.

---

From what I can see there are holes for two lights but there is only one heat bulb in use with another viewing light inside of the enclosure.

Here's the tank for our BP. We now use a UTH so the light is turned waaaaaaay down to maintain the ambient temp.

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/t...m/08c14450.jpg

Please ignore the 7 ish feet of probe wire hanging off the back of the tank. :weirdface

Yes/no the cage in that picture is a T12 (4x2x2) I use this cage for my carpet python.

My 4 ball pythons are in T8's (4x2x1) I also no longer use the heat lamps. I use Flexwatt for my hot side and a RHP to maintain the ambiant/cool side temperatures.

All 5 PVC cages are stacked. I live in a one bedroom apartment so I don't have a huge amount of space for cages lol

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...it1969/074.jpg

This is what the set up looks like now.

On the left is a half-log and underneath is the UTH.

I put the other half log in front, just to provide a surface for him to scratch on if he is shedding.

On the right is the light (regular basking for day, infrared for night).

We do have a larger tank that we can move him into if need be. It's a long 20 gallon I believe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by momma_mia

Oops, sorry, my bad. My bulbs are 75W, not 100W. I was confusing them with my beardies' light.

Daytime
http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2752666

Nighttime
http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...122&lmdn=Brand


So, I am extremely confused right now!

Am I supposed to have 2 bulbs on at all times on the tank? Are they BOTH supposed to be infrared?

Looked at Aaron's photo, but it looks like one side is infrared and the other side is not.

---

I only have one heat lamp in those pictures the other light is a floressent light for viewing purposes.

I would just use your infra-red bulb 24/7 that is what I use to do when I used 10 gallon tanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by momma_mia

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...it1969/074.jpg

This is what the set up looks like now.

On the left is a half-log and underneath is the UTH.

I put the other half log in front, just to provide a surface for him to scratch on if he is shedding.

On the right is the light (regular basking for day, infrared for night).

We do have a larger tank that we can move him into if need be. It's a long 20 gallon I believe.

---

Your tank is the perfect size (for now)

If the UTH is not being controlled by a thermostat it needs to be unplugged. They can cause burns that can kill your snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by momma_mia

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...it1969/074.jpg

This is what the set up looks like now.

On the left is a half-log and underneath is the UTH.

I put the other half log in front, just to provide a surface for him to scratch on if he is shedding.

On the right is the light (regular basking for day, infrared for night).

We do have a larger tank that we can move him into if need be. It's a long 20 gallon I believe.

---

Cover the open surface of the top with a damp towel, move the light to the same side of the tank as the UTH, and I think you will be golden until you can tune things in with the thermostat, dimmer, and thermometer/hydrometer. :gj:

Everyone here has given you excellent advice, and like they have said, even BP hatchlings don't consume pinkies. Our adult male eats medium rats, and could take large ones if he wanted to. A pinkie is the size of a human finger, which is significantly too small. Considering your Ball is currently very underweight, I wouldn't feed food items that were too big, but he does need bigger meals. As for your question about why he wouldn't more readily accept meals - if the conditions are horrible, BP will refuse meals. If the tank is too hot, if it's stressed, etc.

I would suggest buying a BP manual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

If the UTH is not being controlled by a thermostat it needs to be unplugged. They can cause burns that can kill your snake.

---

Yeah... scratch my comment about just one light and the UTH. I just don't trust them unregulated.

Your hoods are small enough that you could place one on one side and the other right next to it.

Food size... our guy flat out refused to eat pinkies. Hoppers on the small size were perfect for him when he was a little guy.

So this is what I am going to do, taking into account Aaron's advice and WifeofSlasher:

1) discontinue UTH.
2) move water dish to cool side
3) get different temperature monitor
4) turn down the heat to proper temperatures
5) maintain proper humidity
6) anything else?

I cannot turn my temp up in my house as much as I'd like to. Simply because of the heating bill. It would cost me about $400/month if I did. :O Seriously.

How long do you think it will take for him to get back to normal? Once he's feeling better, will he eat? What should I feed him then if pinkies are too small?

I really do appreciate all of your advice. I think raising kids is easier than reptiles! :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

Cover the open surface of the top with a damp towel, move the light to the same side of the tank as the UTH, and I think you will be golden until you can tune things in with the thermostat, dimmer, and thermometer/hydrometer. :gj:

---

There is a damp towel on the cool side, just took it off for picture purposes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

Food size... our guy flat out refused to eat pinkies. Hoppers on the small size were perfect for him when he was a little guy.

---

what the heck is a hopper? I'm thinking grasshopper?!?!?! Bones really does not like pinkies either.

Great Advice has been given so far I would sugest you look at the caresheet

Yes your Baby looks a litte dehydrated and your husbandry needs a little help but we were all there once and with out this forum my first python would prolly be dead by now. So I will pass on what worked wonders for our first snake. Cover 3 sides of you tank with some type of back ground. Baby snakes are food for other snakes and you little guy may be a little stressed about being so open all the time:P I would also get a second hide so he can thermal regulate better.
Here is a pic of my set ups cause both look pretty similar and it made a huge difference.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...84084614_n.jpg

You would only need to turn up your temps in your home for three days max. Order the hydrofarm through amazon.com that I linked. Once you have this and the probe placed you can use your uth again, turn down your home temps, and dimmer you light as needed according to your new thermometer readings.

A hopper is a size of mouse. Its a step above a fuzzy and a step below an adult. Honsetly if you wikipedia mice then it'll give you the info.

Ugh. Holy typos batman. :rolleyes: I hope you could understand my weirdness.

It will likely take a week or so.

Make sure his humidity is at least 60% for the time being.

You also should get a food scale (one that measures in grams) a cheap model will be good enough. This is mine: $15

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/f79cdeb5.jpg

This is the best way to determine proper food size (15% of of the snakes body weight)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RestlessRobie

Great Advice has been given so far I would sugest you look at the caresheet

Yes your Baby looks a litte dehydrated and your husbandry needs a little help but we were all there once and with out this forum my first python would prolly be dead by now. So I will pass on what worked wonders for our first snake. Cover 3 sides of you tank with some type of back ground. Baby snakes are food for other snakes and you little guy may be a little stressed about being so open all the time:P I would also get a second hide so he can thermal regulate better.
Here is a pic of my set ups cause both look pretty similar and it made a huge difference.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...84084614_n.jpg

---

think maybe my cats are freaking him out? I will put up a background for him. Maybe he doesn't like the White Sox ;-)

the tree is actually hollow and he likes to hide in there. so there are 2 hides for him to go into.

Can you move him into a room the cats aren't allowed into or they can be kept out of? Does each individual room have its own heater on its own thermostat?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by momma_mia

think maybe my cats are freaking him out? I will put up a background for him. Maybe he doesn't like the White Sox ;-)

the tree is actually hollow and he likes to hide in there. so there are 2 hides for him to go into.

---

Tape construction paper or something dark to 3 sides of your tank. This will make him more comfortable.

OK Ill paste what I do for tank temps from another post I keep my house at 68 give or take and this worked great for my set ups but you have to get a Thermostat for your UTH for it to work

So here is what I did and it works great.

First I covered 3 sides of the tank with aquarium background (the only good item I have found from Petsmart) just to make it look nicer for me to look at.

Second I took some cardboard and cut it to fit the 3 covered sides. Then I taped one side of the cardboard with foil tape to reflect heat back into the tank and taped the cardboard to the 3 coverd sides of the tank as seen below.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...83841836_n.jpg

As for the screen top I purchased a peice of plexi from HomeDepot and cut it to fit just inside the slider top for my tank. Drilled a few holes in it for ventilation and one large hole for the CHE. Taped a portion of it with foil tape and left the back untaped for the tank light. I do like to see my snake when she is out

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...64496118_n.jpg


Heat is supplied from a 60W CHE and Flexwatt 11 taped to the bottom. The CHE is set at about 50% on a lamp dimmer from HomeDepot (plan to get a dual T-stat for it in the future) The Flexwatt is set on a Vivarium VE 300 T-stat set to 96F. This keep my hot spot at 91F and ambient at 78-81F as room temps fluctuate a little. My Snake seems to love it she just got a great checkup from the vet and is eating like a pig. Hasn't refused a meal yet. As you can see in the photo below room temp was about 68f and tank temps were exactly what I wanted them to be. Hope this helps out and feel free to ask me any questions you might have.


.

Everyone else is doing a great job giving you advice ....

I just thought it was interesting your BP likes the tree hide! My BP is about the same size as yours (also from Petsmart) and I actually had to take that tree hide out of his tank because it wasn't small enough for him.

Even snakes are individuals. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

Can you move him into a room the cats aren't allowed into or they can be kept out of? Does each individual room have its own heater on its own thermostat?

---

I've been trying to keep my son's door closed and keep the cats out since starting the humidifier up. I can keep his door closed during the day, but at night it's harder, he cannot sleep with door closed (he's only 10), although it's closed to just a crack.

We only have 1 thermostat in our house, so rooms are not individually monitored.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by momma_mia

We only have 1 thermostat in our house, so rooms are not individually monitored.

---

That sucks. As long as you keep close tabs on the temps he should be okay. I totally understand wanting to keep the nasty electricity bills down.

If you wanted you could try a space heater just for the room the tank is in. That's how I keep my ambient temps up. Just make sure it's regulated as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kamille Kirkendoll

I would suggest buying a BP manual.

---

Can you recommend a good one? Thank you!

Thank you all for the advice. I really appreciate it. I'm glad I finally found a forum that's active!