Harlequin Wide-Stripe

A friend of mine has a 1.1 pair of harlequin wide-stripes that he bought at the 2009 Canadian Reptile Breeders Expo (CRBE) from a breeder who attended the show from the US. They are awesome looking and I've been doing some research on them for the past couple hours... most threads end in "more breeding needs to be done."

I found a youtube video of a harlequin wide-stripe x mojave and it was awesome looking... but haven't had much luck finding info on how clutches have turned out or if anyone has tried to prove out a line of them... an old website said something about a harlequin side-stripe when bred together but no pictures or links or anything and it hadn't been updated in a long time.

About a month ago I picked up this 1600g virgin 2008 female... looks very similar, but his are a little darker on the sides. Either way this girl was a steal for only $150! :gj:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4609772_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2990879_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3681006_n.jpg

Sooo anyways I'm just beating an old drum here but has anybody got these, working with them, have a picture of a super, etc? Any info on them would be much appreciated :)

130 Views, No Replies... nobody has anything to say about these? haha

Maybe its a secret. ;)

I've kept doing research and to the best of my knowledge these are a co-dominant mutation just waiting to be officially proven.

A lot of people say they're just normals... but search harlequin mojave on youtube... (probably not supposed to link it as its not my video?) stripe or not, that snake has more going on than a regular mojave.

Any clutches I've been able to find pics of from harlequin x normal breedings show a clear difference in the offspring between normals and harlequins.

I'm trying to decide whether I should pair this girl up with my Lemon Blast male or do a joint breeding project with my buddy to see if we can hit a super. I haven't seen much on harlequin x harlequin breeding. Still a while yet before any breeding goes on so I'm sure I'll change my mind 4352355 times and put her with something totally different, but in any case I would love to read more about this "morph."

Cheers

a buddy of mine who is on this forum has harlequins and he has a mojo harlequin, i had never heard of it til i went to his house and they r pretty hott....as for any more info im sorry i dont much more about them

i have a male that has the same belly as that one along with a female that should breed next year should i try proving something out?? ok what im asking is would it be worth it to try and prove a line out of them?

This:

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Originally Posted by Drewp

do a joint breeding project with my buddy to see if we can hit a super....

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Correct me if I'm wrong but.... is a harlequin genetic?? I believe is natural random occurrence... something like "non genetic reduced" or like ringers or classic jungle... Or they get Proved already ??

On the dutch forums there's a lady with a yellowbelly harlequin, but it may possibly be a fire harlequin because of a multi sired clutch.

Her female ovulated again this year, and some more breeding trials need to be done I guess.

Here's a picture of the animal she now calls ' quinstripe '

**picture removed**

Copyright Bumblebee (Jamie)

Groet,

Yaron

I think it's a random occurence here is a thread that I started with pics of my first clutch I think my female is a widestripe http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...85#post1546685

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Originally Posted by Aes_Sidhe

Correct me if I'm wrong but.... is a harlequin genetic?? I believe is natural random occurrence... something like "non genetic reduced" or like ringers or classic jungle... Or they get Proved already ??

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You are right, as I stated they are not a proven morph. Thats why I am looking for more info on anyone who has attempted or is trying to work with them. I know VMS Herps had a line that they were/are? trying to prove out and some of the offspring they were getting looked like the parents. There are some birthing records including pics that can be dug up for those interested.

My girl doesn't look as promising as the pair my buddy owns, or a lot of pictures I've seen of them... her colour is normal, but her stripe is very thick similar to a lot of them I've seen. That being said, in the Harlequin mojave video, they show what they call a harlequin and it looks totally normal coloured with less of a stripe than mine. So who knows whats what.

They seem like they have so much potential, I can't believe more people aren't working with them. Prove them out as dom or co-dom and you've got one of the coolest pattern mutations out there that has barely been crossed into anything yet. Mojave and now maybe yellowbelly crosses are all that I've seen... and no super that we know of, other than apparently "Harlequin Side-Stripe" which I can't find pics of. Thanks for that pic of the yellowbelly cross btw Yaron, that is an awesome snake. Could be fire x yelllowbelly but either way I want one of those haha.

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Originally Posted by python_addict

i have a male that has the same belly as that one along with a female that should breed next year should i try proving something out?? ok what im asking is would it be worth it to try and prove a line out of them?

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I think if proven out they'd be a valuable morph, especially if they were dom or co-dominant. Genetic Stripes are fairly popular and take twice as long to work with being a recessive gene.

I'm not sure what exactly you are referring to on the belly pic, looks pretty normal to me. Post up some pics. :)

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Originally Posted by chago11

I think it's a random occurence here is a thread that I started with pics of my first clutch I think my female is a widestripe http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...85#post1546685

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Thats a popular opinion, your pair looks awesome - can't believe you got all normal looking snakes with barely any striping (in comparison) out of them. Maybe you've got something recessive there or horrible odds or maybe those are just crazy looking normals... or maybe they all are!

In any case thanks for posting and good luck with your projects!

I don't know how relevent this is but I've read several instances that Harlequin is just a type of pattern. I haven't read that it has shown to be genetic. Take that with a grain of salt. I read a lot and sponge info and that's something I've read on multiple occasions. I don't have personal experience on the matter. I'll be following this with some curiousity myself.

Regards,

B

Here is a site that I thought was interesting.

http://www.vmsherp.com/ViewWideStripeBalls.htm

Thanks, I came across that one as well. You can find pictures of their clutches on there if you dig enough. The site says they are retired but still have lots of their animals, I wonder if they're still working with these at all. They would have breeding size females by now if they held any back.

i think who ever is hiding the side stripe from us needs to share because those patterns would amaze me in pastel, clown, lesser/butter, yellowbelly and albino forms omg i would spend every last penny on an albino side stripe

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...l/IMGP3608.jpg

Gave me a few eggs in 2010. Unfortunatly, she never bounced back from laying and ended up passing away:(

I was very bummed, I have only lost two Ball Pythons over about 14 years.

Out of the few eggs she laid, only two hatched, both Pastels that looked fairly normal. The male is a Pastel, the female that hatched out is a Pastel YB. I held both back and will probaby end up breeding them together to see if anything cool pops out.

Dave

I forgot to add these pics of her babies. She was bred to my Pastel YB male.

Dave
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...l/IMGP3765.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...l/IMGP3760.jpg

Thats too bad that she passed on, she was a looker! Looks just like my girl.

Good luck with the sibs.

Here's the deal with harlequin wide stripes. These are the things I personally know to be fact.

1. yes it's genetic and it has been proven. it's an incomplete dominant morph. when bred to a normal you get 25%-50% wide stripes

2. it does not work with pastels but if you breed it to super pastels it does work. Basically if you breed a harlequin to a pastel you get 50% pastels and 50% normals. If you bred it to a super you get at least 25% pastel harlequins. The last clutch was 6 eggs and 3 were pastel wide stripes. I know for sure it works with fires, anything that makes B.E.L., yellow bellies, and albino's. The males have been bred to about 26 different snakes over 2 seasons.

3. there are 3 lines of wide stripe out there. VMS/Pro Exotics line, a Canadian line, and a line from Italy.

I bought 4 wide stripes from VMS 2 males and 2 females. All of them have been used and all produced wide stripe offspring. I know the person now owns the 4 and there offspring and they are working on a few projects that might be shown off this year but most likely next year.

What do you think about the female I posted a picture of? I got a pastel male and pastel yb female from her...do you think they are worth breeding together?

Dave

HI,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meeistom

Here's the deal with harlequin wide stripes. These are the things I personally know to be fact.

1. yes it's genetic and it has been proven. it's an incomplete dominant morph. when bred to a normal you get 25%-50% wide stripes

2. it does not work with pastels but if you breed it to super pastels it does work. Basically if you breed a harlequin to a pastel you get 50% pastels and 50% normals. If you bred it to a super you get at least 25% pastel harlequins. The last clutch was 6 eggs and 3 were pastel wide stripes. I know for sure it works with fires, anything that makes B.E.L., yellow bellies, and albino's. The males have been bred to about 26 different snakes over 2 seasons.

3. there are 3 lines of wide stripe out there. VMS/Pro Exotics line, a Canadian line, and a line from Italy.

I bought 4 wide stripes from VMS 2 males and 2 females. All of them have been used and all produced wide stripe offspring. I know the person now owns the 4 and there offspring and they are working on a few projects that might be shown off this year but most likely next year.

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Can you share some more information about this?


dr del

Thats cool... thanks so much for posting that... any additional info you could provide would be amazing. If its a proven morph, shouldn't it be more "known of" among ball python breeders? You seem to know more about them than I've been able to figure out through countless hours of searching the internet. Do you know if there is a super form? VMS' website claims that there is a Harlequin Side-Stripe, which is the super form... but other than that I can't find any info on Harlequin x Harlequin breeding. I assume since you said incomplete Dominant (and not co-dominant) that there is no known super form?

Has anyone tried breeding different lines together? My friend has a VMS line male and my female I believe to be a different line (probably the Canadian line you're referring to). This is solely based on the colours, the VMS line look a lot darker and are more obvious looking that its probably a morph. Where as my girl looks a lot more like a normal colour-wise, but displays the big bold wide stripe... and the saddles are pretty funky looking, too.

Very interested in any more info at all that you could share.

Cheers

They won't make wide stripes. It's a visual or it's not a wide stripe. Siblings don't carry the gene for it. They are very nice though.

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Originally Posted by EmberBall

What do you think about the female I posted a picture of? I got a pastel male and pastel yb female from her...do you think they are worth breeding together?

Dave

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Never seen a super form or bred a stripe x stripe. My buddy hasn't either. Next year the females will be big enough to bred so we will find out next year.

I know more because I bought some from VMS and bred the males last year to a lot of females. I tried to sell the offspring and no one was interested at all. After bringing them to several shows and getting no where with them I sold the remaining snakes to a friend as he wanted a cheap project to work on. He did some more work and now I have more information. Honestly I had no idea anyone even cared about the wides at all.

I know about the different lines from talking to folks at shows and talking to guys from Canada and Italy. I have family in both areas and they know i'm into reptiles and with the internet we got to emailing and exchanging info.

No idea on trying to bred the different lines I haven't heard of this happening. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened.


I think the reason it's no more "known" is very simply put they aren't too special. There are lots of normals out there that have a very similar appearance. In the grand scheme of morphs out there they aren't that different from a normal. Some of the combos are nice but again if you can't sell them at a decent price you end up with lots of pretty pets. Lets say you bred a wide to a mojave you get 5 eggs and 1 is a normal wide and 1 is a stripe mojave. You now have to market the stripe mojave and show it's genetic. Easier said then done. It just may not be worth the time and effort. Remember not everyone thinks they are all that special.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drewp

Thats cool... thanks so much for posting that... any additional info you could provide would be amazing. If its a proven morph, shouldn't it be more "known of" among ball python breeders? You seem to know more about them than I've been able to figure out through countless hours of searching the internet. Do you know if there is a super form? VMS' website claims that there is a Harlequin Side-Stripe, which is the super form... but other than that I can't find any info on Harlequin x Harlequin breeding. I assume since you said incomplete Dominant (and not co-dominant) that there is no known super form?

Has anyone tried breeding different lines together? My friend has a VMS line male and my female I believe to be a different line (probably the Canadian line you're referring to). This is solely based on the colours, the VMS line look a lot darker and are more obvious looking that its probably a morph. Where as my girl looks a lot more like a normal colour-wise, but displays the big bold wide stripe... and the saddles are pretty funky looking, too.

Very interested in any more info at all that you could share.

Cheers

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I don't know, I think they look awesome and should make some killer combos... if a super is produced I think they'll start to get some more attention (assuming its awesome looking lol)

Either way though I'm stoked to possibly get to work with this project this year. :D

If you've got any pictures of the different crosses I would love to see them. The harlequin mojave looks amazing, and the (possible) harlequin yellowbelly posted in this thread. You said theres albino widestripes? Those must be killer...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meeistom

Here's the deal with harlequin wide stripes. These are the things I personally know to be fact.

1. yes it's genetic and it has been proven. it's an incomplete dominant morph. when bred to a normal you get 25%-50% wide stripes

2. it does not work with pastels but if you breed it to super pastels it does work. Basically if you breed a harlequin to a pastel you get 50% pastels and 50% normals. If you bred it to a super you get at least 25% pastel harlequins. The last clutch was 6 eggs and 3 were pastel wide stripes. I know for sure it works with fires, anything that makes B.E.L., yellow bellies, and albino's. The males have been bred to about 26 different snakes over 2 seasons.

3. there are 3 lines of wide stripe out there. VMS/Pro Exotics line, a Canadian line, and a line from Italy.

I bought 4 wide stripes from VMS 2 males and 2 females. All of them have been used and all produced wide stripe offspring. I know the person now owns the 4 and there offspring and they are working on a few projects that might be shown off this year but most likely next year.

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You seem to know a lot about the wide stripe what do you think about my male and female that a posted?

There are 13 100% het for albino wide stripes out there that i know of. Never seen an albino stripe but VMS might have some they aren't letting anyone know about. Next year if the odds are good there will be some albinos. My friend may or may not let me post pics of his stuff. He plans to show them off next year when he has more of them. This I can say some of the combo's are really cool others not so much.

Keep breeding the adults together and see if your next clutch produces some wide stripes. You can also try to bred the male to a few normal females and see what comes out of those as well. They may not be wide stripes and just striped normals.

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Originally Posted by chago11

You seem to know a lot about the wide stripe what do you think about my male and female that a posted?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drewp

to me this snake looks almost identical to my female normal purchased from petsmart(ya i learned my lesson never buying there again) also i have noticed that my girl is extremely light compared to other normals i have seen but then again everyone has a normal that to them isnt normal right?
OP Photohttp://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2990879_n.jpg
My Photohttp://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l.../IMAG01211.jpg

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Looks pretty solid ahunt! You might have something there. My female hasn't been bred yet and therefore isn't proven genetic, I bought her as a normal. From the pics I've seen of them and comparing to my friends 1.1 pair though, I think she'll prove out as a wide-stripe... but only time and breeding will tell for sure.

Chago's pair both look way more promising than either of ours and he got all normal looking snakes out of his clutch, so its really a toss up unless you've acquired a genetic Harlequin Wide-Stripe from VMS.

meeistrom I hope your friend will share some pics, thanks again for all of the info.

Meeistrom do you know if your friend has tried Harlequin X Pin or Lemon Blast? You said that Harlequin x pastel hasn't yielded any pastel wide-stripes, but super pastel x harlequin has. Is it possible that the pastel clutches were just poor odds? Or have there been too many to call it that? I'm still on the fence about putting the Lemon Blast to my female... I'm thinking more and more about doing a joint breeding project with my buddy's male from VMS. Cheers man.

No pins yet, but a spider was done and out of 4 eggs 1 spider, 2 normals, and one really odd looking spider. Could it be a spider wide maybe have to wait a few years as it's a female. Or it could be a really bad looking spider too.

In terms of bad odds anything is possible but 2 males were bred to 5 pastel females and not 1 produced a wide stride or a pastel wide stripe.

Here's the list of morphs the wide stripes were bred to: pastel, super pastel, spider, black pastel, sable, mojave, lesser, fire, yellow belly, woma, albino, and ghost. I'm not saying that all of thee combo's exist but that was what the 5 males were bred to. Some hit others didn't but that's how the odds work.

I forgot to add a B.E.L., and an enchi to the list as well. The males were busy this year. I also forgot to add the females did not breed this year as they were way under weight. I honestly bred them too young and they needed this year off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meeistom

I think the reason it's no more "known" is very simply put they aren't too special. There are lots of normals out there that have a very similar appearance. In the grand scheme of morphs out there they aren't that different from a normal. Some of the combos are nice but again if you can't sell them at a decent price you end up with lots of pretty pets. Lets say you bred a wide to a mojave you get 5 eggs and 1 is a normal wide and 1 is a stripe mojave. You now have to market the stripe mojave and show it's genetic. Easier said then done. It just may not be worth the time and effort. Remember not everyone thinks they are all that special.

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Does the "quinstripe" that Ntume posted a picture of (on the 1st page) look like anything you've produced with the wide-stripes? If so, I bet that alone, and/or that with maybe some pastel or Enchi in it, would go a loooong way towards marketing the wide-stripes ...

I mean, you think about it, there are quite a few morphs that are various degrees of unexciting on their own, but unlock some really cool stuff when combined -- I think sometimes it's the combos that really "make" the morph marketing-wise ...

Yes and no. Mine was way darker but the female YB is insanely dark but so that has more to do with the dam/sire then anything else. The head is the same pattern though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Does the "quinstripe" that Ntume posted a picture of (on the 1st page) look like anything you've produced with the wide-stripes? If so, I bet that alone, and/or that with maybe some pastel or Enchi in it, would go a loooong way towards marketing the wide-stripes ...

I mean, you think about it, there are quite a few morphs that are various degrees of unexciting on their own, but unlock some really cool stuff when combined -- I think sometimes it's the combos that really "make" the morph marketing-wise ...

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Interesting ... Well, if that is a consistently reproduce-able combo, that'd be enough to make me want to pick up a wide-stripe (and yellowbelly for that matter :rolleyes: )

It is reproducible but the odds are very low. Wide combo's are 1 if your lucky in a clutch. Out of over 25 clutch's this season only 7 produced a combo. There are still another 6 to go but those are not good odds at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meeistom

It is reproducible but the odds are very low. Wide combo's are 1 if your lucky in a clutch. Out of over 25 clutch's this season only 7 produced a combo. There are still another 6 to go but those are not good odds at all.

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Hmm ... Interesting.

Noticed any pattern to the sex of wides or combos?

Hi,

Is it possible that what we see as wide stripe is actually a polygenic combo?

Something we cannot visually distinguish in the non-widestripe animals?


dr del

Hmm that's a very interesting theory. I will have to discuss this with a few of my buddies who are genetics experts. Just not sure how to prove or disprove this. You've given me something to think about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Is it possible that what we see as wide stripe is actually a polygenic combo?

Something we cannot visually distinguish in the non-widestripe animals?


dr del

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I think there are also various types of what people would describe as harlequin, some being dominant/codominantly genetically inheritable, some perhaps only polygenetically.

I believe that is where the confusion over inheritability arises.

I know I keep seeing snakes being described as harlequins that to me look similar in pattern type, but that is it. No melty sides, not enough black, colour wrong....etc.

In the same way a non-genetic very reduced pattern/banded could look like a type 2 woma, but isn't.

Polygenetic, you say? That is definitely an interesting concept and could explain why the odds have been so poor with the wide-stripe clutches. Unlike most dominant or co-dominant mutations, there could be more than one gene at play... so rather than 50% odds you've got more like 25%, or even less - could be impossible to determine the real % chance without knowing how many genes are affected on the allele. The gene should still be inheritable by the offspring, though. Is that right or am I confused here...

I believe with Classic Jungles (mind you I haven't dug very deep with them) the genetics are not transferrable and it is just a fluke that one hatches out. To my knowledge there hasn't been any success in trying to breed the mutation as a dominant, co-dominant or recessive trait. I'd imagine there was a lot of work put into trying to prove them out...

Then theres all these other wacky genes like the spector x yellowbelly = superstripe, which then produces both spectors and yellowbellies... Desert females not producing... Caramels hatching out kinked at random... etc etc.

I'm no genetics expert lol I've only been learning about them through ball python websites for the past year or two, but I find it all so compelling... so if anyone would care to explain this polygenetic theory in more detail it would be much appreciated. Are there any other morphs thought to be polygenetic?

Hi,

That's another point - it wouldn't have to be on the same allele. :cool:

Think of it like NERDs statments about the het pied gene having a visual effect in some combos.

You might end up that what we call harlequins are actually double heterozygous (or homozygous ) for two (visual or non-visual ) mutations and that it is sheer fluke there is a visual effect when the two are in the same animal.

Which potentially leads to some seriously nerfed up results from breeding two visual animals together;

Results

6.25%Normal
12.5%het. Harequin type A (non visual )
6.25%Harelquin type B (non visual )
6.25%Harlequin type A (non visual )
12.5%het. Harlequin type B (non visual )
12.5%Harlequin type A, het Harelquin type B ( visual? )
12.5%Harlequin type B, het Harelquin type B ( visual? )
6.25%Harlequin type A, Harelquin type B ( visual? )
25%het. Harlequin type A, het. Harlequin type B (visual? )

Which would give 56.25% possibly visual animals from breeding to harlequins together. Or 25% if only the double homozygous was a visual expressed combination.

Either way the chances per egg would be different than we would have expected but would need a large sample to try and prove those were the odds anyone was actually getting.

But I'm guessing it cannot be as simple as only the double homozygous being visual as that would mean breeding two harlequins together would give 100% harlequins as a result.

If it was allelic (sp? ) then breeding two visual parents together should give 25% harlequins as a result. But you also couldn't get harlequins from breeding to an animal that didn't have one of the genes.

And all this is based on a blind hope it is that simple and involve a combination of the those concepts or more than 2 genes. :P

Excuse me I think I need to go lie down with a cloth over my head till the hurting stops.


dr del

I think I'll opt for an herbal remedy.... how much more confused could I really get. :P

Thanks though, that theory is really something else.

Here is a "Dinker" that I picked up at a local pet store a few months ago. I'm begining to wonder if he could be a Harlequin?

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...y/DSC_0132.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...y/DSC_0270.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...y/DSC_0275.jpg

Thoughts?

I was talking to my buddy who purchased his pair from VMS, he told me that there are a couple of distinguishing characteristics that they told him about at the time of purchase.

-"Key-holes" normally present in the 1st 1/3rd of the stripe (starting at the head), he wasn't sure if he was told that they all absolutely have to have them or if it is just common.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...n-keyholes.jpg

-Two black stripes, one on each side, running down the base of the tail and encompassing the tip of the tail. (In the picture, it only shows one side... and my thumb is covering part of it. But there are dark parallel stripes that join at the base of the tail.) Again he wasn't sure if this is a must-have on a wide-stripe or more of a "het-pied marker" kind of deal.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...equin-tail.jpg

-They often exhibit "floating alien heads" at the bottom 1/3 of the snake.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...uin-aleins.jpg

- A blushed out head... as you can see above.

The snakes that my buddy owns also exhibit these traits and he talked to the people from VMS for quite a while when he bought his pair, which is where he learned about these traits... I would imagine that there are plenty of normals who would show these patterns as well, so who knows if its just a coincidental thing or if these are some of the things to look for? I figured it was worth posting anyways.

Interesting thread. We have a dinker Harlequin girl. She has only produced one offspring (pictured below) which we kept as a hold back so this is still in the works. Last season she was paired with a yellowbelly but slugged out. When we first got her from Outback I contacted Dan Wolfe - http://dwherp.com/Photo%20Gallery.htm - He has a morph he calls a Rio, (which is very cool!) and I wanted his opinion on this girl. I don't have belly shots but she has the "railroad" makings down her entire belly.


http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...ll-1-2-2-2.jpg



Hold back dinker female with very rich, dark colors.

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...ll-1-2-5-2.jpg



Here is another striped dinker project. We are thinking a whole different direction with this girl though, not Harlequin. Her colors are completely different.

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...ll-1-2-9-1.jpg



To the OP: Your new girl looks like a great dinker project. :gj: Could prove out for you.

I will chime in here only briefly, busy day here at PE and SYR : )

We started working with some "wild stripe" stuff back in the 90's. The epitome of the dinker project, at the time. We hatched a couple of fully striped babies, but this was before the Ball python morph craze, so I didn't recognize the significance of it. I sold one of those full PE stripes to Tracy at VPI, way back when.

We raised some, including partial stripes, and while VMS Sean was working here at PE, he picked up some of that line.

I don't know when they became "Harlequin", but I have never referred to them that way. At this point, we just call them PE Stripes.

I STILL don't understand how they work. There is a great variance in the amount of striping, from full stripe, to partial stripes, to no stripes. That keyhole feature comes into play often as well. But it is all so unpredictable.

We really started making some progress with our "Double Het Ghost PE Stripes". We bred a PE Stripe (not a fantastic one, just a mostly striped one) to a Ghost/Hypo. Those babies all looked normal. After raising them up for 6 or 7 years, we bred them back together and got PE Stripe Ghosts. The striping still varies animal to animal, or doesn't appear at all. Some of those Ghost PE Stripes are pictured below, along with some of the better PE Stripes.

We have also done Pin PE Stripes and Lesser PE Stripes...

Ghost PE Stripe from 2010- from normal appearing Double Het parents:
http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...ale%204-11.jpg

http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...ale%204-11.jpg

The best "plain" PE Stripes appear like this:
http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...pe%2011-09.jpg

This is where it turned weird a couple of years ago. We started hatching out stuff from this same Double Het Ghost PE Stripe line that started looking like Tri Stripes.

hatched a couple of years ago:
http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...010-10%201.jpg

http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...010-10%202.jpg

And the best one yet, hatched in 2010:
http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...ale%204-11.jpg

Now I REALLY don't know what is going on : )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

And the best one yet, hatched in 2010:
http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...ale%204-11.jpg

Now I REALLY don't know what is going on : )

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So this came from breeding double het PE Stripe/Hypos?! WOW! :O Makes me consider breeding our "harlequin" girl with our male hypo next season instead of a yellowbelly and holding on to the clutch.