Haggling prices at shows....What's your take

Our Iowa show is in a couple weeks and I was just thinking about how people love to haggle prices. I'll admit I'm a haggler, but I haven't been comfortable with the idea of haggling in the ball python world with snakes that are more than fairly priced. I was talking with some people after the Tinley show and they couldn't believe I paid asking price. I was a bit taken back because the prices were more than fair. For an easy example, if someone has a nice pastel female and they want $150 I'm not about to offer them a lower price. Call me crazy, but I consider it an insult to the breeder when they already have the animal priced low. Even if the price is a tad higher than average, if the animal is better quality than average how can you argue?

So anyhow, where do you stand? Do you haggle all prices at shows, does it depend, or do you just pay the asking price if it's reasonable?

If the animal is one that fits into my breeding plans and is a good representation of the morph and fairly priced I pay asking price. If it something that I have been wanting and could use but I don't necessarily need it for this season I will haggle.

I can understand the logic in that.

I feel breeder's have somewhat of an advantage: 1) a lot of people who don't know much about pricing are at the shows 2) the potential customer has a lot of pressure on them (fear of the animal being sold to someone else, and just being overwhelmed with all these beautiful animals) 3) having all this cash in your pockets makes it that much easier to pay for what the breeder is asking

Don't get me wrong, some of these morphs take years to make and are rare so some asking prices are reasonable. But I feel a lot of breeders know they have the upper hand so they list the price a bit higher, not to mention they also list the price a little higher so when someone comes to try and bargain, they lower the price to a more regular price. It's typical business. If I want to sell item A for $50, I'd list it for $60 so people offer me $50. Now if I want to sell if for $50 and offer it for $50 then they will offer me $40, now I lost $10.

I've done both, but am more than fair when I haggle on price. I'm not going to insult the breeder with a lowball offer. If the price has a $50 in it, I'll try to haggle down (example: if it's priced at $750, I'll offer $700 for it). If the vendor is giving me their full attention and answering all of my questions, I would be more inclined to paying full price.

Bottom line is I know exactly what I want going into a show, and know what fair market price is for it as well.

I can understand haggling a bit with the higher end morphs, as long as it's reasonable. There's a lot more room to haggle with higher end morphs than pastels, spiders, pins, mojaves etc.

If you haggle. Haggle in pairs.

Im not going to sit and try to talk someone down on a price if im buying just one animal. If im buying 2-3 then i try to talk them down as you have more room to since your not just buying the one animal.

I only make offers lower than asking price under one condition only: Their asking price is more money than I have budgeted for that show.

There's no harm in saying "I only have $200 to spend, and your snake is priced more, so I can offer you every penny I have to spend." The worst they could say in return is "no thanks".

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

If you haggle. Haggle in pairs.

Im not going to sit and try to talk someone down on a price if im buying just one animal. If im buying 2-3 then i try to talk them down as you have more room to since your not just buying the one animal.

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I agree, when I buy 2 or more I will haggle. The only time i haggle on a single like for example a guy today offered me a breeder male lesser for 400 but he said he would haggle on him if I really wanted him.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Our Iowa show is in a couple weeks and I was just thinking about how people love to haggle prices. I'll admit I'm a haggler, but I haven't been comfortable with the idea of haggling in the ball python world with snakes that are more than fairly priced. I was talking with some people after the Tinley show and they couldn't believe I paid asking price. I was a bit taken back because the prices were more than fair. For an easy example, if someone has a nice pastel female and they want $150 I'm not about to offer them a lower price. Call me crazy, but I consider it an insult to the breeder when they already have the animal priced low. Even if the price is a tad higher than average, if the animal is better quality than average how can you argue?

So anyhow, where do you stand? Do you haggle all prices at shows, does it depend, or do you just pay the asking price if it's reasonable?

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I can understand that you don't feel comfortable haggling on bp's at shows, but I really think that is part of the excitement. I hate to admit this but I haggle on every bp I purchase. It doesn't matter who I am buying from. Now I am not saying that if the breeder refuses to haggle that I will walk away. I just want to get the most for my money.

Also another thing is when u choose to haggle the breeder.

There is more room to haggle a breeder in a few months once they have tons of babies rather than try to haggle on some of their older more well started animals during breeding season.

Almost all morphs except the very ugliest and the cheapest will gain value with every feeding for up to two years (or more).

Just an FYI for you guys out there, when I set my prices on my ball pythons, unless it's a pastel, all of my prices are always firm :D

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

I can understand haggling a bit with the higher end morphs, as long as it's reasonable. There's a lot more room to haggle with higher end morphs than pastels, spiders, pins, mojaves etc.

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On the other hand......
If there are 100 or so pastels, or spiders, etc.... between all the vendors at a show, I'm more likely to let someone haggle me down a few bucks on one of those snakes.

If I have the only "BELs" or albino spiders, etc.... I'm much more likely to hold my price.

It's all about supply and demand.

I've found that most Americans don't know how to haggle. They either get insulted, don't understand the game, or give up too soon, or, worst of all, get embarrassed.

Depending on the person, how they present themsleves to me, how the animals are presented, day, time of day, my mood, I may or may not haggle. Usually I do. I also enjoy being haggled by someone who knows how it's done. It can actually be fun.

I never knew you could haggle snakes :P until hubby and I went to an expo and the breeder told us always ask if they will take less. I wanted to try my skills out today but hubby said no more snakes until we get our house :tears:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I've found that most Americans don't know how to haggle. They either get insulted, don't understand the game, or give up too soon, or, worst of all, get embarrassed.

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I agree 100%

There is a big difference between asking for a deal on a trio, or $50 off a $500 animal.

It's the guys that offer $25 for female pied that drive me crazy!:O

Its called negotiating! I do it all the time but I also go to shows knowing what animals I want and what price I am willing to pay and if I can't get what I want for how much I have allocated myself I am prepared to go home with nothing. It also depends on the breeder. I will not pay more for a animal just because it is from a big breeder yet their prices are usually higher then the small guy that has a couple dozens snakes.

Oh I always haggle at any type of show. It does not matter if the price is right or not. It never hurts to try. Sometimes it works other times not. If I really I want it and the price is fair I'll get it anyway. If I save a few bucks then that is great to. I know when I go what I am looking for and what it cost. If the price is not right it stays...

As a seller I don't mind hagglers, it tells me that they are really interested in the animal. What I do mind is people belittling my animals to try and get a better price. You pull that stunt and your price just doubled.

Now do I haggle..the only time I will ever haggle or make an offer is when I am buying a group of animals that total allot of money would I haggle a 1.2 spiders no but would I make an offer on

"0.5 pied
1.3 clown
1.3 G-stripes
1.0 Albino spider
1.0 Chocolate"

sure whats the worse that can happen they say no and I pay full price..

Rule of thumb I never make an offer on an animal I'm not willing to pay full price for..

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

Almost all morphs except the very ugliest and the cheapest will gain value with every feeding for up to two years (or more).

Just an FYI for you guys out there, when I set my prices on my ball pythons, unless it's a pastel, all of my prices are always firm :D

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My thoughts exactly. I know most people are used to haggling in this business, but when I eventually start selling BPs I have no intentions of lowering my prices. If that means I have less customers and have to hang on to babies longer... fine. I'll just raise the price every couple hundred grams until they eventually sell.

I'll probably give nice discounts for cash payments, local pickups, and repeat customers, but that's different. The only time I've even asked for a break on my own purchases was when I thought one of them was a bit overpriced, not because I wanted to screw the seller.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I'll just raise the price every couple hundred grams until they eventually seller.

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It's a business decision to be negotiable on your prices. Sure the more weight they gain the more they are worth. But you also have to feed them, clean them, and heat them. That all costs money. If you can justify the extra profit by doing so then by all means go for it but I think when you actually play with the numbers sometimes you would be better off accepting an of let's say 750 on a snake you have listed for 800. Or even counter with 775. Just saying.

I don't know. I guess I figure that if I lose a sell because I won't go down $50 then the snake is probably better off anyway.

I haggle prices on most things I buy. The worst you can hear is no. Most sellers appreciate it as long as you're being realistic and serious. Haggle does not mean lowball. People with disrespecting lowballs aren't haggling. They are being rude. I can see how a seller would be offended by such offers. I respect the person I'm haggling with at all times. I know what I'm willing to pay for any given item or animal and if I choose to haggle then I'm serious about buying. Sometimes I will haggle and still pay full price if the item is exactly what I want at a fair market value. I also don't like when people haggle and then tell you they will think about it. In my book, the haggling starts over when you leave the table. If you decide on a mutually agreeable term then you shake hands and proceed with business. These are all best practices I have learned over years of haggling a variety of things.

This all payed off great when I bought my first BPs. I got the breeders last pastel female for free and saved a decent chunk on my cinnamon female because I asked and added her on before the other three shipped. On the flip side, the seller did well too because he can ship all 4 animals at the same time to one location and clear space for his 2011 hatchlings. It was mutually agreeable and we both ended up happy. I'm happy with things so far so I'm already considering adding two more snakes! That is how haggling can end if you both respect the rules. Very interesting topic! Thanks for starting it up :)

Regards,

B

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

In my book, the haggling starts over when you leave the table. If you decide on a mutually agreeable term then you shake hands and proceed with business.

B

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I agree with this 100%. There is nothing I hate more the getting an email with an offer then accepting and getting a response of " well I don't have the money right now". Then why'd you make an offer. Can't stand it!

I will occasionally ask if that's the best price. But only if it's something that I am on the fence about. I work in a motorcycle shop where pretty much every customer complains and tries to haggle price.....and I HATE it. If you have what I want, when I want it, I will usually pay what you are asking no questions asked. If I've only budgeted so much, I'll try to negotiate if its within reason. I don't expect someone to knock 50-100 bucks off just because I've shown interest. I've passed on some animals I would like bc I couldn't get them down to what I wanted to spend, but I've also gone back to the atm and pulled out a little extra if I knew it was worth the extra.

I have haggled on every BP I've bought!! I agree its part of the fun of the shows....I also try to go to the shows on the last day to see whats left and to get a better deal. :D Its all in good fun and normally I buy 3-4 at a time so I know there is really some wiggle room...

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Rule of thumb I never make an offer on an animal I'm not willing to pay full price for..

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Agreed ;).

I agree with Mike....its negotiating. Just don't be insulting!!

I also agree with Freaky....

Rule of thumb I never make an offer on an animal I'm not willing to pay full price for..

Only for me....I never negotiate on an animal that I dont fully intend to buy...even if the price stays the same. (ohhhhhhhhhhh did I just give myself away...lol)

Once I went to a reptile show not looking to buy another ball python, I asked some questions about one of the pastels someone was selling. The guy lowered the price REALLY low for me, I felt embarrassed because I wasn't interested in buying, I just wanted to look. I made it clear I didn't have the supplies necessary but kept saying she was very pretty. I didn't have the space, the money, etc. So, I didn't take it but it's kind of funny how when you act like you don't want something, people will give it to you.

The guy who sold me my pastel lesser had an attitude to him like, "I'll just keep her if I don't sell her". So, I didn't haggle the price, but I realized he was actually very surprised I was buying the snake. I'm not sure if he did it on purpose or if he was serious, but it worked! Plus, she was average price anyway and gorgeous.

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Originally Posted by mdjudson

Sure the more weight they gain the more they are worth. But you also have to feed them, clean them, and heat them. That all costs money.

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I've done some calculations based on classified prices going back some years. In 2008, it was financially beneficial to hold on to pastel females and sell them at 750-1500 grams after factoring in feeding and heating costs. Right now you'd probably break even. Spider and pinstripe females might still bring in profit by raising them up for a year or a bit more. $500-$3000 female morphs should gain the most value %-wise based on hatchling price. Above the 3 grand mark for hatchling prices, I can't find data on the market price for the same animal a year or two later.

The one cost I did not factor in is TIME, because for my calculations, I don't care, this is a hobby and I don't need to be paid to play with my snakes.

I don't generally do a lot of haggling at shows. I do usually spend A LOT of time talking to someone about an animal, enough time that I either get OFFERED an original discount, or get a repeat customer discount. If I can't afford an animal I'll offer to do a payment plan.

I'm not a good haggler (or a good poker player for that matter :P ) What I will do is ask if a breeder will go half on shipping through (basically knock 25.00 off or so). I've had good success with that.

I haven't read all of the posts here but I will say haggle if you have the skill...but do not be surprised or offended by those who may look at you and say no thanks. If you do not have the skill another way you can possibly get a better price is to select the animals you want and then just simply ask "Is this the lowest you will go". You will be surprised what that simple question will do to motivate a discount from the breeder.

If I think a snake is reasonably priced, I will pay that price. I normally don't haggle prices. If I really want a snake that I think it overpriced, then I will ask them to come down.

This is an interesting thread and because haggling or negotiating is second nature to me, I've never thought about it as anything to be considered. I use a lot of logic in my negotiating tactics however. The sales definition of negotiating, btw, is: giving either party permission to say no.
For me personally, I never go to a show to browse. I always know what I'm looking for before I pay the admission to get in. A good example is the enchi male I grabbed last month at the Cleveland show. I had been looking on Kingsnake for a month or more for a nice enchi male and just kept my eyes out. The going rate was around $200-$300 plus shipping. I went to the show not expecting to find one let alone get a deal, but I found a nice male who was already in the 300 gram range. I knew he was probably on the high side of my range and I had $300 in my pocket. I asked the price and the seller said $300. I nodded and asked if he'd consider taking $260. He hesitated, so I explained that I'd been looking for an enchi and had found several for around $200-$225 that would have worked, but add shipping and I'm up to $250/$275. By offering the $260 to him, he still makes more than the lower end animal I would have bought, gets cash instead of Paypal, and makes the sale on the spot. It was a win/win for both of us. I think he felt ok knowing I had done my research and made a good case for the lower offer. I wasn't just haggling to haggle. I'll, of course, buy from him again as well. He worked with me so I'll happily work with him again.

Jim

The secret to haggling is to appear that you have no more than a mild interest in the product and that you don't really care if you get it or not.
If you present that image and start to walk away, the seller will more often than not start offering you a lower sales price.
If you appear very enthusiastic about the item that is for sale, you will encourage the seller to hold out for full asking price.
I haggle.

All great points. Maybe one day I'll change my mind on haggling BPs, but I still think I'll pay asking price if it's realistic and I'm only making a small purchase.

I wouldnt say haggle, but I do ask what is the best price they can do?

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Originally Posted by Herp_Herp_hooray

I wouldnt say haggle, but I do ask what is the best price they can do?

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That's the beginning of a haggle. Playful banter and witty repartee should follow when both parties know the game.

I haven't purchased enough to haggle. It's not like buying a car. However, when I bought my pastels I was ready to pay the full purchase price for the pair of them. They were sold to me for $50 under what it would have cost me to buy them separately. Package deals are great. Knowing this, if I purchase any more in the not so distant future I will haggle for a single snake and see if it works. Worst thing that could happen is they don't sell it to me and I walk away.

Also knowing what multiple breeders would sell the same snake for helps. One breeder may be selling, say a Spider female, for $300 and another breeder selling the same type for $250. Gives you something to work with.

Most breeders I know on a personal level; slightly increase their prices for shows, expecting to haggle. This way the buyer gets to haggle and the dealer still makes out pretty well.

If I see a nice animal for a reasonable price...I will not hesitate to pay asking price.

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Originally Posted by jamesa2580

This is an interesting thread and because haggling or negotiating is second nature to me, I've never thought about it as anything to be considered. I use a lot of logic in my negotiating tactics however. The sales definition of negotiating, btw, is: giving either party permission to say no.
For me personally, I never go to a show to browse. I always know what I'm looking for before I pay the admission to get in. A good example is the enchi male I grabbed last month at the Cleveland show. I had been looking on Kingsnake for a month or more for a nice enchi male and just kept my eyes out. The going rate was around $200-$300 plus shipping. I went to the show not expecting to find one let alone get a deal, but I found a nice male who was already in the 300 gram range. I knew he was probably on the high side of my range and I had $300 in my pocket. I asked the price and the seller said $300. I nodded and asked if he'd consider taking $260. He hesitated, so I explained that I'd been looking for an enchi and had found several for around $200-$225 that would have worked, but add shipping and I'm up to $250/$275. By offering the $260 to him, he still makes more than the lower end animal I would have bought, gets cash instead of Paypal, and makes the sale on the spot. It was a win/win for both of us. I think he felt ok knowing I had done my research and made a good case for the lower offer. I wasn't just haggling to haggle. I'll, of course, buy from him again as well. He worked with me so I'll happily work with him again.

Jim

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Off topic...Did you by this animal from Carl? I go to this show all the time and know a few of the breeders pretty well.

You can haggle show prices? O.o Well damn, I feel like a newb. XD Though I gotta say, I couldn't have asked for a better price on my new boa. Paid $50, everyone else was asking $100+.

I guess if it was fairly priced, I'd pay that, if not, I'd haggle a bit, but not enough to "get a steal" or anything, just until it was what I thought the animal was worth.

I have bought most of my snakes from local shows. Mentioning "Carl" if this is the same Carl that does the Taylor MI show I have received many great deals from him without asking! I recently picked up a black pastel ph hypo at the show for a great price. Told the vendor I had been watching the snake on a few classifieds and wanted her. Simply asked what the best price was, he gave his best price and it actually floored me. Was not expecting it to be so low. Went home with her if course.

Busting chops for a discount on one animal is not that appealing, from the selling standpoint. We work very hard to have outstanding animals. They are not specially priced, they are market priced- fair, and a great value. Still, it isn't hard to haggle 5%...

Grouping a few animals together and getting a group discount, no problem at all, happy to do it.

Saying that you like our Pied WAY better than the guy's Pied across the room, but his is $200 less, can you match it? Not cool.

There is absolutely a type of customer that would rather get an ugly/garbage/skinny/stuck shed/whatever animal and pay 20% less than get a gorgeous, feeding, visually outstanding animal for the price marked. That is fine, but I don't chase after those customers, and they don't hurt my feelings when they walk away.

The discerning customer that wants high quality, thriving, visually outstanding animals? Love those folks.

What DOES annoy me:

"I already spent $1000 over at Breeder X table, can't you drop the price on this $600 animal for me?". What you have spent at the other guy's table has nothing to do with what you are spending at mine : )

or

"I bought this dirt cheap monitor lizard from Mites R Us and between shipping, the vet visit, and worming meds it has cost me $250. Now it is dead. Can't you do me a better price on one of your monitors?"

It doesn't happen a lot, but it DOES happen. Crazy. Every time.

I don't haggle, I've just never been comfortable with it.

I see. I want. I buy.

I haggle everything...haha.

Everyone is negotiable....there's no reason not to try.

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Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

Busting chops for a discount on one animal is not that appealing, from the selling standpoint. We work very hard to have outstanding animals. They are not specially priced, they are market priced- fair, and a great value. Still, it isn't hard to haggle 5%...

Grouping a few animals together and getting a group discount, no problem at all, happy to do it.

Saying that you like our Pied WAY better than the guy's Pied across the room, but his is $200 less, can you match it? Not cool.

There is absolutely a type of customer that would rather get an ugly/garbage/skinny/stuck shed/whatever animal and pay 20% less than get a gorgeous, feeding, visually outstanding animal for the price marked. That is fine, but I don't chase after those customers, and they don't hurt my feelings when they walk away.

The discerning customer that wants high quality, thriving, visually outstanding animals? Love those folks.

What DOES annoy me:

"I already spent $1000 over at Breeder X table, can't you drop the price on this $600 animal for me?". What you have spent at the other guy's table has nothing to do with what you are spending at mine : )

or

"I bought this dirt cheap monitor lizard from Mites R Us and between shipping, the vet visit, and worming meds it has cost me $250. Now it is dead. Can't you do me a better price on one of your monitors?"

It doesn't happen a lot, but it DOES happen. Crazy. Every time.

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I get that - completely! I don't have the animals that you do of course, but even at the pastel level. I selectively breed, and I produce NICE pastels. I hate if someone comes to me and says "but XYZ has their pastels priced at X - can you match it?"

No - I cannot. If you liked XYZ's price, why didn't you just buy from them, instead of asking me to match their price? Apparently you like the quality of mine better - and I grade my pastels. I might match a price on a low grade animal, but NOT on what I consider an A grade animal.

As a buyer, I've never haggled a price. If I like an animal, I'll generally pay the asking price. I'm extremely picky about my breeding stock. When I breed, it's to improve the mutation or make the nicest possible combo's that I can. Essentially, I'm breeding for my number one customer - ME. And since I'm so picky, I want to produce only the best that I possibly can.

I'll also wait as long as a year and a half to find "my" perfect example of a mutation. Took me that long to find my black back AND floating pattern cinnamon. That pickiness paid off in spades when I produced black back AND floating pattern babies that were spoken for before they even had their first shed. :) At a high grade animal price as well.

I must say, that this topic is wonderful. It's been a great read from the beginning, and it's nice to see perspectives on both the buting and the selling ends.

Personally, right now I'm just a hobbyist, but I'll end up being a small project breeder in time. Though in regards to being a buyer, I'm a coin toss on if I haggle.

When I go to a show, I generally have a plan on what I want, and how much I feel like spending, but I always browse to see if something is a must have. Then really I'll haggle if the person looks like they would be willing.

Generally I will always ask if the dealer will go any lower, but I'm not much good at haggling. Too shy. :rolleyes:

I accidentally haggled a Spider het Albino down to $200 at my last show. I had asked the guy if he had any regular het Albinos, and all he had was the Spider. I told him I only had $200 on me currently (which was true) so I would think about it and come back later, but he said he would take the $200.

I don't think I would do that in the future though, at least not on purpose. It would be dishonest, and I am fine with paying full price for a good animal.

Of course you should haggle, and if you're a seller you should expect to be haggled!

The price of an item is determined by what a person is willing to buy it for, this is plain and simple. Now of course a seller is always going to want the most for it, so they should put it at the highest amount they think they can get for it (and there is nothing wrong with this in the slightest); but there is so much competition in this field that if you aren't willing to negotiate you might just lose that sale. Losing a sale is losing profit, and is generally bad practice in almost any business :rolleyes:.

Now of course emotions get involved and people think their animal is better then others when it is so ironic that your competitor probably thinks the same about his own stock; but hey if they are willing to negotiate and you aren't, guess who's getting a bigger paycheck at the end of the month? Sure you can say your snake is a better example of the morph, your snake has better patterns, etc, but that is entirely subjective and short of extreme examples most people are going to be willing to get that mojave with a little less blushing if it means saving them 15-20% on their purchase.

Then again, when it comes to questions like this I have the business in mind. If you don't care about your profit as much at the end of the month then you might think the other way but generally speaking people who go to these shows are going to take care of my snakes so I don't really have that kind of concern in my mind.

Now how much I'd drop my price to is another question entirely lol.