So what is the math behind a punnet square?

So I was playing around with some thing today, and was attempting to make a punnet square calc. but for the life of me, I can't figure out the math behind it, i only took up to high school trig tho lol.

I can do them on paper easily, but when it comes to make the computer understand what I want, I'm at a lost.

I have made the genetic wizard on www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/ and to play with the genetics that way wasnt an easy task. (not for me anyways)

The first version took me about 30 hours to make...

Now the second version is only and I havent got all the genetic rules incorporated yet, because of some genes that acts crazy when mixing.

yea, also it doesn't add %'s which really bothers me lol, other than that its great. I just wanted to expand on it, add rules, add %'s, have it so you can type in the morphs, not have to scroll through them. Your wizard is by far the most recommended tho, I'd personally like a different layout, so thats what i'm doing.

well I came up with a method today, going to attempt to make it work, We shall see.

Edit guess yours adds %'s now, you've made an update since I last played with it

I would assume its just simple Matrix calculations. What language are you writing this in? Search for a Matrix library for your language of choice and read the docs for it.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

yea, also it doesn't add %'s which really bothers me lol, other than that its great. I just wanted to expand on it, add rules, add %'s, have it so you can type in the morphs, not have to scroll through them. Your wizard is by far the most recommended tho, I'd personally like a different layout, so thats what i'm doing.

well I came up with a method today, going to attempt to make it work, We shall see.

Edit guess yours adds %'s now, you've made an update since I last played with it

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It has had % in every version, this time its just better at adding the results together...

Which design would you like to see ?

Thomas

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

So I was playing around with some thing today, and was attempting to make a punnet square calc. but for the life of me, I can't figure out the math behind it, i only took up to high school trig tho lol.

I can do them on paper easily, but when it comes to make the computer understand what I want, I'm at a lost.

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I don't know anything about programming, i do believe this guy got it right. See what you think.

http://geneticcalculator.traxxtec.de/en/rechner.aspx

Realize there are a number of different snakes, just remember to click on Ball Python or you will go to corn snakes.

Not a complete list, but better than anything I've seen so far. Seems to be accurate too.

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by thb

It has had % in every version, this time its just better at adding the results together...

Which design would you like to see ?

Thomas

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that was the part that really bothered me, but you fixed it. atleast for alot of them

I like typing in things better than scrolling through a list
like this one....http://www.geneticswizard.com/ its just a general calc tho, not made for snakes

you notice yours crashes for some things, like breed a banana + something x banana + something or a zebra + something x zebra +something

also zebra pastel says its a codom but when i breed zebra x zebra it spits out 25% normal/50% zebra/25%normal?

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

I don't know anything about programming, i do believe this guy got it right. See what you think.

http://geneticcalculator.traxxtec.de/en/rechner.aspx

Realize there are a number of different snakes, just remember to click on Ball Python or you will go to corn snakes.

Not a complete list, but better than anything I've seen so far. Seems to be accurate too.

Jim Smith

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I already notice the german calc is missing "banana" is it outdated?

soo - if you can do them on paper, why not stick to it?

i either: use my head, or pen and paper - can't be assed with those genetics sites - takes too long
by the time you've found the site/typed in the info/etc - you could probably already have the answer on paper
also - you'd have a written record of your findings, so shouldn't need to re-visit the site?

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Originally Posted by alan1

soo - if you can do them on paper, why not stick to it?

i either: use my head, or pen and paper - can't be assed with those genetics sites - takes too long
by the time you've found the site/typed in the info/etc - you could probably already have the answer on paper
also - you'd have a written record of your findings, so shouldn't need to re-visit the site?

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once you go past 3 genes, its faster to use the calc, im not drawing 64 boxes lol. personally, I can still do 3 in my head pretty fast, but not alot of people can. its nice to have a full layout calculated for you, nice a neat, no boxes to add up and all that.

When you start doing super pastel/spider/pin/het hypo to a pastel/pin/hypo/black pastel, your looking at alot of time. lol

None of the other calculation tools you have shown works better than World of Ball Pythons Genetic Wizard...

geneticcalculator: small list of animals, and it doesnt work correct with dominant genes, and iam pretty sure that it would run into the same problems as ours with the crazy genes.

geneticswizard: same problem as our with the crazy genes, and its has no list of animals, so I think its pretty hard to use.

So we cant conclude that right there is no perfect calculator online for Balls ;)

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Originally Posted by thb

So we cant conclude that right there is no perfect calculator online for Balls ;)

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yet ;)

Sorry guys, I have no idea how to test this other than to post it, hopefully I get this figured out soon and then i can post the site link so people can help me troubleshoot it.

Alrite guys, here the skeleton version, so go ahead and tear it apart and lemme know whats screwed up. I tested it on firefox 3.6.13 and IE 8. so if you use another browser and have problems lemme know. Also just need comments on how it works as far as functions, layout, and accuracy, I will make it look better sometime later. just grabbed a default web template lol.

some things I still have to add:

Make auto suggest work with arrow keys, you click on em with your mouse right now.
Add Rules for complexes
Add combo names (ex. "Homozygous Pastel" replaced with "Super Pastel" or "Pastel/Spider" with Bumblebee)
Side notes for complex genes

http://matchheadstudios.com/mattsroot/genetics.php

Sweet calculator. Must be quite some programmer behind it.

It looks like good start :)

Here are some things:

- Morph list is small
- It doesnt calc the genes together (het albino, het albino should say homo albino)
- It prints homo (super) with dom x dom breeding
- It works wrong with the crazy genes.
- You are missing combo names ( as you wrote your self )

These calculators are all cool little bells and whistles, but it takes the fun away. I love sitting down and doing ball python Punnett squarse. That is part of the fun in the hobby. Ball python genetics to date are pretty simple and straight forward. Now I am trying to work into corn snake genetics, these buggers are confusing due to cross interactions and such. I guess the crosses are kinda like the Leucistic complex in balls, but we will see if I can get my head wrapped around them.

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Originally Posted by thb

It looks like good start :)

Here are some things:

- Morph list is small
- It doesnt calc the genes together (het albino, het albino should say homo albino)
- It prints homo (super) with dom x dom breeding
- It works wrong with the crazy genes.
- You are missing combo names ( as you wrote your self )

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i have every single proven base morph on the list, unless you see one I missed? lemme know


seems to work to me?

all doms should have a homozygous form, just it will look like the heterozygous version, only proven ones are the congo and pinstripe tho. all the other ones are unproven.

still gotta work on the complex stuff and replace combo names yea

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Originally Posted by Gloryhound

These calculators are all cool little bells and whistles, but it takes the fun away. I love sitting down and doing ball python Punnett squarse. That is part of the fun in the hobby. Ball python genetics to date are pretty simple and straight forward. Now I am trying to work into corn snake genetics, these buggers are confusing due to cross interactions and such. I guess the crosses are kinda like the Leucistic complex in balls, but we will see if I can get my head wrapped around them.

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once your doing 3 genes it can get annoying, pewter/lesser x pewter/lesser, your looking at 64 squares and alot of combining

Make enough lines where people can breed two 5 gene snakes. :D

Looking good so far!

That seems BROKE. :D


I put the het albino male and the homo albino female on different lines... if you put them on the same line it works properly...

Eventually it would be nice to not see homozygous at all (it would be implied) and just "het" instead of heterozygous.

I think I confused myself! Nevermind!

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Originally Posted by wax32

Make enough lines where people can breed two 5 gene snakes. :D

Looking good so far!

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Well i set it up for worst case scenario, 7 genes all hets, if i go 8 it times out, so i left it at 7. takes a while to receive data from 7 lol

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Originally Posted by wax32

I put the het albino male and the homo albino female on different lines... if you put them on the same line it works properly

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yea no reason to type albino twice :), Ill look into something that doesn't allow you to do that i guess lol

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Originally Posted by wax32

Eventually it would be nice to not see homozygous at all (it would be implied) and just "het" instead of heterozygous.

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working on that right now, atleast omitting the homozygous part, im leaving heterozygous tho, more people need to understand what het means lol. It bothers me when your trying to explain genetics to someone and you mention a "het pastel" and someone pips up and says "you can't have a het pastel, its co-dom".....-_-... obviously you don't know what het means. i mean it would say just pastel or yellow belly, but it will say heterozygous albino and what not

i also got my own domain now, figured id get one at some point, so why not now?
http://www.owalreptiles.com/genetics.php

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Originally Posted by wax32

Make enough lines where people can breed two 5 gene snakes. :D

Looking good so far!

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1,048,576 Combos. No thank you.

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Originally Posted by wax32

That seems BROKE. :D


I put the het albino male and the homo albino female on different lines... if you put them on the same line it works properly...

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Thats saying that they are two different traits. Plus there is no fix for this the problem being.

Albino Homo, Het
Albino Het, Homo

So is it Homo, Het. Homo, Homo. Het, Het. Or Het, Homo

You can pound any calculation you want in to a calculator and it will give you the correct answer.. to what you pounded in. Irrelevant of what you wanted.

Also this must be left open because if two different genes cause the same thing and might be both called the same or similar they will still have to be treated different.

alrite, if I'm gonna screw it up, this is most likely where, I added a check box to use trade names and also a check box to abbreviate heterozygous and homozygous. I'm sure I missed alot of names and I wrote a database of over 300 changes, so im sure I added a space where it didn't belong or something, so if something doesn't display right, or a combo is wrong or anything, lemme know.

I saw you got your own domain... I think EVERYONE ought to have one. :D

I'm liking the combo names... when applicable. I'll play with it some more and see what I see. :D

Rarrrrrrr....

Sometimes Albino drops the "o" and sometimes there is no space behind a comma. Little details...

By the way I listed albino on the same line for male and female on that one and it listed Albino and Homo. Albin. Dunno

Super Pastel, Albino, Genetic Stripe, Ivory, Sunglow, Firemon, Homo. Albin

Is sunglow hypo albino? seems like albino is getting listed three times in the same animal.

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Originally Posted by wax32

Sometimes Albino drops the "o" and sometimes there is no space behind a comma. Little details...

By the way I listed albino on the same line for male and female on that one and it listed Albino and Homo. Albin. Dunno

Super Pastel, Albino, Genetic Stripe, Ivory, Sunglow, Firemon, Homo. Albin

Is sunglow hypo albino? seems like albino is getting listed three times in the same animal.

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copy and paste just the parents and ill take a look at it, its the first table in the "post on ball pythons.net" par

nvm didn;t noticed u posted the table above lol ill look into it

yup I had some spaces where the didn't belong, thx for pointing that out, should be fixed now, lemme know if you find more. and btw yes a sunglow is an albino hypo

I have the feeling that the punnet square calculator makes use of simple mathematics. I would request him to do the mathematics on paper, scan it and upload it so that we will be able to know the secret behind it. Anyway I found the genetic calculator pretty difficult to use. I couldn’t follow the language.

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Originally Posted by montano

I have the feeling that the punnet square calculator makes use of simple mathematics. I would request him to do the mathematics on paper, scan it and upload it so that we will be able to know the secret behind it. Anyway I found the genetic calculator pretty difficult to use. I couldn’t follow the language.

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I emailed every genetics calculator, reptile related or not, on the math behind the punnet square and got no response from anyone, expect some guy telling me to figure it out myself (actually what he said I would get another infraction for repeating). So thats what I did. But after getting no help from the community in this area, im not giving out the source code, tho it will be free to use. btw it wouldn't fit on one piece of paper.

What did you find difficult about it, do you not understand heterozygous and homozygous? I was thinking it would need a "how-to". most people don't get genetic explained to them correctly. lemme know what got you stuck and ill explain it.

im still working on getting the complexes to work, I got it to the point where it will do like butter/lesser x lesser correct and butter/lesser x mojave/mystic. just it get confused when both animals have the same complex with the same gene lesser/butter x butter/mojave. still working that bug out then I will update the original calculator. but I am working on it, just havn't had much time.

m...m...math?
AAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

:bolt:

Alrite, I added complexes. Let me know if something seems screwed up.

http://www.owalreptiles.com/genetics.php

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Originally Posted by montano

I have the feeling that the punnet square calculator makes use of simple mathematics. I would request him to do the mathematics on paper, scan it and upload it so that we will be able to know the secret behind it. Anyway I found the genetic calculator pretty difficult to use. I couldn’t follow the language.

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if you wanted to do it on paper yourself... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square

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Originally Posted by montano

I have the feeling that the punnet square calculator makes use of simple mathematics. I would request him to do the mathematics on paper, scan it and upload it so that we will be able to know the secret behind it. Anyway I found the genetic calculator pretty difficult to use. I couldn’t follow the language.

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Well this is the math iv written out. Its a simple punnett.
http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/...ydb/punnet.jpg

If your wondering about the calculator:
http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/...eticcalc-1.jpg
or something close to that.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ksort_anim.gif
I might change to American flag sort for speed.

This seems to need a bit more tweaking... some of the combo names overlap or something:


Male:|Sterling Bee
Female:|Emperor Pin
3.125%|1/32|Super Pastel, Butter, Cinnaspin
3.125%|1/32|Super Pastel, Butter, Cinnapin
3.125%|1/32|Butter, Killer Blast
3.125%|1/32|Butter, Super Blast
3.125%|1/32|Super Pastel, Cinnaspin
3.125%|1/32|Super Pastel, Cinnapin
3.125%|1/32|Killer Blast
3.125%|1/32|Super Blast
3.125%|1/32|Butter, Sterlingbee
3.125%|1/32|Butter, Sterling Pastel
3.125%|1/32|Super Pastel, Butterbee
3.125%|1/32|Super Pastel, Butter
3.125%|1/32|Sterlingbee
3.125%|1/32|Sterling Pastel
3.125%|1/32|Killerbee
3.125%|1/32|Super Pastel
3.125%|1/32|Cinnamon, Queenspin
3.125%|1/32|Cinnamon, Emperor Pin
3.125%|1/32|Queenspin
3.125%|1/32|Emperor Pin
3.125%|1/32|Pinstripe, Pewterbee
3.125%|1/32|Pastel, Cinnapin
3.125%|1/32|Spinner Blast
3.125%|1/32|Lemon Blast
3.125%|1/32|Butter, Pewterbee
3.125%|1/32|Butter, Pewter
3.125%|1/32|Queenbee
3.125%|1/32|Pastel, Butter
3.125%|1/32|Pewterbee
3.125%|1/32|Pewter
3.125%|1/32|Bumblebee
3.125%|1/32|Pastel
||Table and Calculation By OWALReptiles

Am I misunderstanding? Killer Blast/Super Blast the same thing? Is Sterling Pastel the same as Sterling?

By the way, awesome job with the calculator!

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Originally Posted by wax32

Am I misunderstanding? Killer Blast/Super Blast the same thing? Is Sterling Pastel the same as Sterling?

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thats why I made this page
http://www.owalreptiles.com/tradenames.php

Killer blast = super pastel/spider/pin
Super blast = super pastel/pin
Sterling Pastel = Sterling = Super pastel/cinny

and thanks

I just reread what you wrote, are you possibly looking at cinnapin and cinnaspin?
cinnapin = cinnamon/pinstripe
cinnaspin= cinnamon/pinstripe/spider

Okay I might not be clicking the correct things but,

When I try het. Piebald female X het. Piebald male I get Error message. It should be basic 25% normal, 50% het Piebald, 25% Piebald correct?

Again it could be the silly human over here:taz: just let me know if my wits have gone begging!

Awesome programming!

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Originally Posted by texanborn

Okay I might not be clicking the correct things but,

When I try het. Piebald female X het. Piebald male I get Error message. It should be basic 25% normal, 50% het Piebald, 25% Piebald correct?

Again it could be the silly human over here:taz: just let me know if my wits have gone begging!

Awesome programming!

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I only have 2 error message, one is if you put 3 gene of the same complex in one snake (ex. mojave/lesser/butter) and the other is if you have the same trait in the calc twice, which im assuming is what you have.

for that pairing you just need to put piebald in one line and click the male het and the female het on that same line. then click breed

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Originally Posted by texanborn

Okay I might not be clicking the correct things but,

When I try het. Piebald female X het. Piebald male I get Error message. It should be basic 25% normal, 50% het Piebald, 25% Piebald correct?

Again it could be the silly human over here:taz: just let me know if my wits have gone begging!

Awesome programming!

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

thats why I made this page
http://www.owalreptiles.com/tradenames.php

Killer blast = super pastel/spider/pin
Super blast = super pastel/pin
Sterling Pastel = Sterling = Super pastel/cinny

and thanks

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http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/killer-blast/

I thought Killer Blast = super pastel pinstripe = super blast

http://www.constrictors.com/Collecti...allPython.html
http://www.constrictors.com/Collecti...allPython.html
http://www.youtube.com/user/thecrest.../1/rLKBl9JzR_0

Thanks! Clears things up. I think the photos on the link I gave actually have spider in them... I guess that guy made a mistake. :D

By the way this list:

http://www.owalreptiles.com/tradenames.php

is really cool. Any way you could sort it totally alphabetically instead of breaking it up into single/double/triple+ morphs?

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Originally Posted by wax32

By the way this list:

http://www.owalreptiles.com/tradenames.php

is really cool. Any way you could sort it totally alphabetically instead of breaking it up into single/double/triple+ morphs?

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I guess I could add some headers above each single/double/triple/ect. might make it a little easier to read.

Thanks OhhWatALoser! I figured it was me clicking the wrong thing!:gj:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I guess I could add some headers above each single/double/triple/ect. might make it a little easier to read.

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That could work too... but some might not know if a morph is single/double/triple/ etc., ya know? Just trying to keep it simple.

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Originally Posted by wax32

That could work too... but some might not know if a morph is single/double/triple/ etc., ya know? Just trying to keep it simple.

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ctrl + f is gonna be the easiest way to find what your looking for no matter how i organize it, there over 300 changes.

maybe if i had a search box on top of the page....maybe ill look into that