Please help!!!!

Zatarra has bubbles in his mouth, is resting his head in an elevated position on his waterbowl a lot, and is wheezing audibly. It's probably an RI, I think. What do I do? Should he go to the vet?? I bet anything they're all booked until next Thursday. I'm terrified he won't make it, I love this guy to pieces. He has to make it.
PLEASE HELP!
I got him from my brother's and now the snake is at my house, it'sw much warmer, ambient temps about 80. What else can I do? Should I go to the vet?
Please please :tears: Help! :(

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...26#post1475626

i'd definitely get him to a vet. better to get him treated so he doesnt get worse.

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Originally Posted by mommanessy247

i'd definitely get him to a vet. better to get him treated so he doesnt get worse.

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Ditto!

I'm worried though, they probably won't have an appointment until next week on Thursday. Will he survive do you think? :(

I can't really tell you whether or not he will make it because I have never dealt with something like this. All I can say is try to find a vet that can give you an appointment as soon as possible. I apologize for not being able to help you more then this. Hopefully, later someone else will have an absolute answer for you.

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

I'm worried though, they probably won't have an appointment until next week on Thursday. Will he survive do you think? :(

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There's not a vet that I know that wouldn't see your animal as an emergency - which this is. Tell them that this is an emergency visit and he needs to be seen right away.

Yes, he needs to be seen and treated by a qualified herp vet.

And what's so "magical" about Thursday? What makes you think (without calling) that the vet won't have any appointments until Thursday? Or will you not have funds until then?

Oh, no no no--the Thursday thing isn't about me at all! The vet that sees reptiles only sees them on Thursdays, occasionally Wednesdays. Even if I go in as an emergency, she isn't there. She's semi retired. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

Oh, no no no--the Thursday thing isn't about me at all! The vet that sees reptiles only sees them on Thursdays, occasionally Wednesdays. Even if I go in as an emergency, she isn't there. She's semi retired. :(

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She's the only vet in the entire area that sees herps? Call some of the reptile stores in your area and find out who they recommend as a vet.

Basically - from your description of how deep it is, he's drowning in those fluids in his lungs. He needs to be seen sooner than later.

I'd call the vet and bring him in for an emergency visit. They will probably charge you an extra fee.

I've actually had a vet turn me away on the phone after we told them it was an emergency. But no GOOD vet will turn you away or make you wait.

There's only one herp vet in Spokane that sees snakes and that's the lady I went to see. I kid you not, I called every vet I could find in the phonebook when Nergal needed to be seen. NONE of them saw herps, and if they did, it was geckos or turtles. Only this lady did. :oops:
Spokane sucks. The nearest area I know of that has a semi-large population, large enough for a snake vet, is Coure d'Alene. I'll look it up. I live in the side of the state closest to Idaho, and there's NO large cities on this side--everything is by Seattle on the opposite side. :mad:

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

There's only one herp vet in Spokane that sees snakes and that's the lady I went to see. I kid you not, I called every vet I could find in the phonebook when Nergal needed to be seen. NONE of them saw herps, and if they did, it was geckos or turtles. Only this lady did. :oops:
Spokane sucks. The nearest area I know of that has a semi-large population, large enough for a snake vet, is Coure d'Alene. I'll look it up. I live in the side of the state closest to Idaho, and there's NO large cities on this side--everything is by Seattle on the opposite side. :mad:

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I sent you a list of vets in Washington - start making calls and ask them for referrals in your area. Call your herp society, pet stores, zoo's, etc and ask for referrals in your area.

Here's a herp vet that's not a woman in Spokane:

Kevin Fricke
Spokane Valley Animal Hospital
14319 E. Sprague
Spokane 99216
509-926-1062

and another:

Mike Perry
Spokane
(509) 535-3551

Lol--we have no zoo! XD We had a zoo in the 90's but it shut down after a year or so of business. It was rated one of the top 10, I believe, in the list of "World's Worst Zoos". I think we had some elk (natural to the area....) a bobcat or tiger, both of whom got sick and had to be shipped off somewhere else, and some birds or something. It was awful. Lol! I'll call though. Thanks so much for the lists! :)

What can I do in the meantime to keep him safe? Temps are around 80 still, I kept the heater on all night. What else needs to be done? I'm worried.

Are you saying the high temperature is 80 or just the cool side?

Ambient temp.

His UTH doesn't work that welll-it's two small ones side-by-side instead of one 20 gallon size, which is his tank size. :/ So I don't know about his hot spot. We have a lamp on that side so maybe his hot spot is about 85 ish?

For a hatchling, that is pretty low. Try to bump up the temperature on the hot side to about 92-94. If you have to, get a little space heater and run it in the room to bump up the temp of the entire room to bring the tank temps up. This is what I have to do in my animal room during the winter because the temp drops so much in this house.

I have the space heater on, I can't turn it up any more. I have so many wires going in my room to all the tanks that if I turn it up higher than 80 degrees it over powers the circuit and everything shuts off for about 5 minutes. :/
I could try but if it shuts off I'm scared cuz then my fish will die. LOL. :(
Should I turn the lamp up?? Or...hmm....what can i do....:(

BTW he's about 6 months old ish.

You have a heat lamp and a UTH on the tank, PLUS a space heater and the temps are still only in the 80's? It must be freezing in your house. I have a tank set up for my newest ball and with only a heat lamp and no space heater running, I still got the temps up to over 80 degrees with the room temperature only around 70-73. I'd get a stronger bulb for the lamp or get a better UTH.

you keep asking what to do. these people seem to have told you what to do. They said take it to a vet. OH btw it's thrusday have you contacted a vet?

I am on hold with vet...lol
i keep asking what to do in the MEANTIME in case they can't see me right NOW is all. i know people have told me what to do. i said thank you, too. it was on page 2...:rolleyes:
also have to go to pawn shop. i only have like 30 bucks til the end of the month. i have some crap to pawn off and hopefully i'll make about 150$ to get him in. turns out my brother doesn't have any money right now because he's about to have a baby with his gf. so we have to pay if we want him to go. though they might chip in a little. honestly i just want this snake to survive. sorry this is from my phone. the no capitals is bugging the heck out of me.

vet didn't answer. left a message.

In the meantime, keep him as warm as possible. Try to get the temps in the tank to warm up a bit. Get him into the vet TODAY. I don't think he'll die today but there isn't much you CAN do until he gets to the vet.

If you are having to pawn off items to get money to get him into the vet, you might want to re-think taking on the responsibility of having this snake, especially if he is sick. You need to be able to care for this snake without having to worry about if you'll have the money to provide him with vet care if he needs it, and provide him with the proper heating requirements.

I would raise the temperature a bit. Don't cook him, mind you ;)
But def. no "cold" spots or drafts in the tank. If its glass, then cover it with towels.
Keep the humidity moderate, I wouldn't mist or keep anything moist. Just leave a big enough water bowl in there to keep some humidity up.

Give him warmth and ABSOLUTE SECURITY. Cover him up, leave him be aside from quick check ups, peeking in. Stress can wreak havoc on the immune system and he has went through a lot. Cooler temps at your brothers, moving, handling, etc etc

Well, thats what I would do until you can get him to the Vet !

I wouldn't have had to pawn stuff if I had known he was this bad off. I just thought he wasn't eating, I didn't know he was so sick.
I spent the remainder of my money on getting a tank for one of MY snakes so she could be alone since my mom wouldn't buy a tank. :( if I hadn't done that....i would have money.
no! i can't bear to let him out of my sight. I can't even sleep. I have to get up and check on him. I have to take him myself and make sure he's ok. I don't know why but I connect with him. I love him so much. He can't leave. I don't want him to. I just don't know anymore.
i'm kinda sorta hating life right now for this. why can't it be me and not him? :tears:

deep breaths are good. :salute:

Try not to get upset. In the end though, you need to consider what is in the best interest of the snake. Just because you've become attached to him doesn't mean you need to keep him even if you can't provide him with everything he needs. (Also, having access to a herp vet is very important when you have reptiles. If you don't have a vet who can see your sick or injured snake, then what do you do if something happens? Just like this.)

If the vet doesn't call you back soon, I'd call them back. Tell them it is an emergency (even if you are just talking with the person at the desk) and that you need to bring your snake in TODAY.

Keep in mind, it's only 6:30 in the morning in Washington right now. It was 5:45 when you tried to call earlier. I don't know any vet offices (other than the rare dedicated animal emergency clinic) that answer phones that early in the morning.

Shelliebear,
I do commend you on all that you are trying to do for this poor animal. Keep calling the vet and you will evetually get through. Jaybunny is right though, if you can't afford the vet visit then it is seriously time to think about doing what is best for the animal. I know this is heartbreaking to hear, but the snake should be given to someone that has the means and finances to take care of him. I wish you the best of luck though hun!

Have to agree with others - don't love him literally to death. I know you're attached, but don't let that attachment prevent you from doing the right thing by him, which is to find someone else who does have the means to provide for him without having to pawn things off to do so.

But I'm a bit confused, because you initially told me that money wasn't the issue?

Money isn't. I have some video game stuff I don't use I can pawn for money. I have money to feed them. I didn't plan on having to make an emergency vet visit because I didn't know he was that sick. I think it's my fault. All mine. :(
I'm going to try to get a job....I'm so close to being 18. I want to see if I can go live with my brother or something and get a job that way. :confuzd: While living at home and being under 18 I'm not allowed to get a job per my mom's rules.

I don't want to give him up! How can I possibly trust that other people won't let this happen when somebody I DID trust already tried to keep him healthy and he got sick? M ybrother is a good person and works hard, and this happened anyway. How can I possibly give them to someone else and not know they're being taken care of? Can't that be just as awful as having a little less money than I need to afford them perfectly?

So you are allowed to take on the responsibility of animals but you are not allowed to get a job to make money to care for them? :confused: I would sit your mom down and talk to her about you wanting to get a job. Tell her that you want to be able to provide your animals with the best possible care and to do that, you need to get a part time job to earn a little money. If I were the parent of a 17 year old, I would take that as a sign of maturity and help you find a job. :confused:

The key thing is that even though you didn't expect to have to make an appointment for a sick snake, when keeping animals, you should expect that at some point, they will need a vet visit (not so much with snakes, but I think the point applies). Have that money ready as a "just in case". My husband and I learned this the hard way. We have many animals and we don't make all that much money. Last year we had some money issues and right around that time, our ferrets all got a virus. We lost two of them, but we had to pay the vet with money we really didn't have to spend and even then, we didn't pay them the day of the appointment (they allowed us to pay later, which we are so thankful for.) Now we know that any of our animals could come down with something or become injured and we are ready in case that happens.

You are doing all you can for this little snake and that is wonderful, but you need to understand that caring for an animal is not just being able to pay for food and bedding. What happens if your power goes out? How will you warm your snakes? What happens if your heat bulb fails or your UTH overheats? These are all things you need to think about if you are going to keep this snake. I would seriously sit down with your mom and tell her that you need to get a job.

Replying to your most recent post: You may not want to give him up, but that may be in his best interest. If you are worried for his safety, then re-home him to someone who knows what they are doing. Don't give him to just anyone. I have rescued snakes before from people who could not care for their snakes properly and those snakes are now doing wonderfully. There are people out there who know what they are doing. Tell them about this forum. Print out some caresheets.

I can't get a job because "I didn't even graduate high school, what makes me think I can possibly hold down a job."
:/
I want to care for them so bad and I know I need a job to do it. My birthday is February 15th and then I could get a job...:(

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be whiney, but I do think a lot of people will judge me based on how I care for my animals and my dedication. I just want to explain that until February it's not my choice. I swear I'm willing t odo anything for my animals. At this point I'm restricted in what I can do.
Soapbox done. :P

The most responsible thing you can do right now is just to find someone that has the means and the finances to care for that poor snake. There has got to be someone that can take him. While you may be attached to him you also need to realize that he is not going to get better if he does not recieve medical attention ASAP.

Again, I'd sit your mother down and talk to her. Getting a job without finishing high school can be hard though, even if you are 18. Most places require a high school diploma or its equivalent. Maybe you could compromise with her. Tell her that you'd like to get a job and in return for being allowed to do so, you'd like to take online classes to get your GED. If your mother is providing you with money to feed your snakes (since you have games and such, I'm assuming she is the one buying them for you), maybe tell her that if you were allowed to get a job, she wouldn't have to purchase items for your snakes. Show responsibility. Show her you are mature enough to handle a job.

Replying to your most recent post: No one is going to judge you for things beyond your control. You took in a snake because you are a good person and you cared, but you find yourself unable to provide everything the snake needs to be healthy and happy. No one is going to judge you because of that. If they do, they are stupid. BUT, you do need to think about what is best for the snake. If you cannot provide proper care, you need to find the snake a new home. I know its hard. You become attached, especially when you are having to put so much effort and care into an animal that is sick and needs you. But in the end, it is up to you to do the right thing for the animal.

I'm trying to sit on my hands and not reply, but here goes anyway...

You are young, but even at your age you know responsibility. You aren't doing the snake any good by giving in to hysterics about how much you love and connect to him and can't leave him be...

His temps are not good, as a matter of fact, you aren't even SURE what they are. The snake has a lot of stress, due to non-ideal husbandry, moving, handling, etc etc. This stress CAN kill if you don't manage to turn things around.

Since you love him, do whats best for HIM. Not yourself. Saying "why can't it be me, not him" makes no sense. How can you take care for others, when it would be you that would be down...

Your best bet for now would be to make him a SMALL quarantine enclosure, I used to do that for sick rescues. Get a rubbermaid container, put some air holes in, put it on a heating pad (human ones are fine) Make sure only half of the container sits on the heating pad and CHECK THE TEMPS several times before putting the snake in. You can get a digital thermometer with probe for that purpose. I placed the sick rescue on a soft and thick bath towel for substrate, since it was cushy and held the warmth nicely. Plus it gave the snake a sense of security, being able to kind of burrow a bit into it. The container was then covered by another towel.

Again, its important to make sure the temps are correct !!!! Put the probe on to the hot spot. The smaller container will make the snake feel safe and it will hold the temps much better and not have drafty cold areas, like a glass tank might. A

Get the heating pads with "settings" . They are only like $15 or so...they usually have a soft cover and won't melt the rubbermaid. Put it on the low setting or better yet, connect it to to a dimmer or rheostat.

You cannot afford to "guess" the temps or "assume" they should be in acceptable ranges.

Getting a quarantine setup does take some funds, but really not that much at all. Also make sure the lid closes securely. Check the temps throughout the day, make sure they stay stable. I know I keep stressing all that, but it is that important...

If you cannot provide what the little one needs, and you say you love him, then love him enough to let someone else save him.

Put your time and efforts into finishing high-school ( GED )so you can eventually take care of yourself and all your beloved animals without worry. I know you can do it :)

Good luck with the little one.

My mom doesn't pay for much, I live at her house with my fiance. He is the one who pays for almost everything.

....though my dad is close to losing his job, my mom is very sick with Lupus and Sjogrens, and they don't make much money, so I don't know how much longer we'll be able to stay here anyway. We'll probably have to move into an apartment eventually if I don't get out of here first....

Not to be harsh, but if you are mature enough to have a fiance and these animals, you are mature enough to have a job.

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Originally Posted by zina10

I'm trying to sit on my hands and not reply, but here goes anyway...

You are young, but even at your age you know responsibility. You aren't doing the snake any good by giving in to hysterics about how much you love and connect to him and can't leave him be...

His temps are not good, as a matter of fact, you aren't even SURE what they are. The snake has a lot of stress, due to non-ideal husbandry, moving, handling, etc etc. This stress CAN kill if you don't manage to turn things around.

Since you love him, do whats best for HIM. Not yourself. Saying "why can't it be me, not him" makes no sense. How can you take care for others, when it would be you that would be down...

Your best bet for now would be to make him a SMALL quarantine enclosure, I used to do that for sick rescues. Get a rubbermaid container, put some air holes in, put it on a heating pad (human ones are fine) Make sure only half of the container sits on the heating pad and CHECK THE TEMPS several times before putting the snake in. You can get a digital thermometer with probe for that purpose. I placed the sick rescue on a soft and thick bath towel for substrate, since it was cushy and held the warmth nicely. Plus it gave the snake a sense of security, being able to kind of burrow a bit into it. The container was then covered by another towel.

Again, its important to make sure the temps are correct !!!! Put the probe on to the hot spot. The smaller container will make the snake feel safe and it will hold the temps much better and not have drafty cold areas, like a glass tank might. A

Get the heating pads with "settings" . They are only like $15 or so...they usually have a soft cover and won't melt the rubbermaid. Put it on the low setting or better yet, connect it to to a dimmer or rheostat.

You cannot afford to "guess" the temps or "assume" they should be in acceptable ranges.

Getting a quarantine setup does take some funds, but really not that much at all. Also make sure the lid closes securely. Check the temps throughout the day, make sure they stay stable. I know I keep stressing all that, but it is that important...

If you cannot provide what the little one needs, and you say you love him, then love him enough to let someone else save him.

Put your time and efforts into finishing high-school ( GED )so you can eventually take care of yourself and all your beloved animals without worry. I know you can do it :)

Good luck with the little one.

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:gj: Zina that was well said.

You have been having a lot of issues lately due to not being allowed to have a job. Your housing for the snakes just about a week ago and now this poor sick baby.. I know you love your snakes, but is it really fair to them that they suffer because of whatever reason prevents you from caring for them? You said How can you trust some one else to keep him healthy, but he is in danger of dying as it is now.. so what is the harm in giving him the best chance you can?


Did you get in contact with a vet?

He has an appointment at noon. Am rounding up money to see if we can make it, if not, he has to go to someone else. :(

Also, I would love to have a quarantine setup with a tub. He has to be in a tank. While I am stuck living here my mom will not allow the snakes to be in tubs. I am sorry I have to keep playing that card but no matter how many times I tell her to read these replies, she won't listen or read them. I am ridiculously limited in what I am allowed to do. I think they probably would be better off somewhere else unfortunately.
I wasn't saying "why not me". I was saying, "what if not me", because I try to keep them healthy and so far they are. This is my brother's snake, not mine. My snakes go to the vet when they need to and are healthy. I think I am trying to take on too much mentally and financially right now. I need to stop.
Despite not having money my snakes eat every week. They go to the vet. I'm just not allowed to put them in tubs. :rolleyes:
I think I might just stop posting here. I know everyone must think I'm a crappy owner. No matter what I do for my babies, it's not enough.
Kids are easier to pay for. It's sad but there are state funded programs for kids. Name one state program that will help me get insurance for my pets so they can see a doctor. There aren't any. :(
It's not fair. Animals are a commitment not just a pet. I'm trying so hard to treat them as such and it makes me feel horrible that in all of your eyes I'm coming across as a selfish owner, a young brat who doesn't want to give up what she can't afford.
I'll do what I can and not what I can't for once....
I don't want to trash my rep though. :(

going to pawn shop. back later. he has to make it. he didn't do anything. :( I'm not letting him go without trying my best. but if i have to he'll go.

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

Also, I would love to have a quarantine setup with a tub. He has to be in a tank. While I am stuck living here my mom will not allow the snakes to be in tubs. I am sorry I have to keep playing that card but no matter how many times I tell her to read these replies, she won't listen or read them. I am ridiculously limited in what I am allowed to do. I think they probably would be better off somewhere else unfortunately.
I wasn't saying "why not me". I was saying, "what if not me", because I try to keep them healthy and so far they are. This is my brother's snake, not mine. My snakes go to the vet when they need to and are healthy. I think I am trying to take on too much mentally and financially right now. I need to stop.
Despite not having money my snakes eat every week. They go to the vet. I'm just not allowed to put them in tubs. :rolleyes:
I think I might just stop posting here. I know everyone must think I'm a crappy owner. No matter what I do for my babies, it's not enough.
Kids are easier to pay for. It's sad but there are state funded programs for kids. Name one state program that will help me get insurance for my pets so they can see a doctor. There aren't any. :(
It's not fair. Animals are a commitment not just a pet. I'm trying so hard to treat them as such and it makes me feel horrible that in all of your eyes I'm coming across as a selfish owner, a young brat who doesn't want to give up what she can't afford.
I'll do what I can and not what I can't for once....
I don't want to trash my rep though. :(

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first of Kids arent any easier.. I have one.. trust me on that.. even with state funding ( which isnt as easy to get or keep as you might think) So maybe not the best example to use...

You dont seem like a horrible pet owner... you seem like some one who due to circumstances is overwhelmed. If you are not in control of the circumstances then it is hard to be completely in control of your life. I think that people on here are trying to voice their opinions and offer you options. No one wants to hear that their pets might be better off with some one else.. but at times it is something that at least needs to be voiced. People arent trying to be malicious or mean when they tell you those things.. they are thinking from a non emotionally connected point of view for what they see as the best interests of the snakes.

I hope you do get the money together to get him to the vet since he is a very sick guy. I also hope that you can see the posts on here weren't personal attacks but suggestions from people on the outside. Everyone on here has a deep love for snakes and wants what is best for them, that is all.

Good luck

Im sorry but:

First: you need to know the temps in your enclosure. You should have AT LEAST one thermometer PER TUB/TANK.

I have one in my boas tub, two in my leos tub, and 2 in my savannah monitors tank. (the only in the boas is a double thermometer, has a probe that can read hot side temp, and then you place it on the cool side to see the cool side temps)

That thermometer cost 7 dollars. PLEASE go buy, one, or two, or however many you need to have atleast one in each enclosure


Second: PLAN

I am not older than 18, and I already have plans in place should anything happen to my animals. I do NOT have a job, BUT the plan is that I am going to pay off my mother for all the feeders she buys me and any vet costs that are needed when I get my job

those are things you have to plan for BEFORE you get pets. If I knew my mother wouldnt buy me feeders or help me with vet bills, and then let me pay it off when I get a job, I would have never even gotten one pet

I dont mean to sound mean or rude but you gotta greatly improve your care for these animals or give them up.

Sorry

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

I think I might just stop posting here. I know everyone must think I'm a crappy owner. No matter what I do for my babies, it's not enough.

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Hon, all we can do is react to what you post here. And I don't think anyone thinks you're a "crappy owner"....I believe you are projecting your own thoughts and fears onto everyone else and assuming they feel the same. What ~I~ see is a very young person who has gotten in over her head and is afraid to consider the hardest choices. ALSO, what ~I~ see is a young woman who loves her animals dearly. That does NOT equate to a "crappy owner."

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Kids are easier to pay for. It's sad but there are state funded programs for kids. Name one state program that will help me get insurance for my pets so they can see a doctor. There aren't any. :(
It's not fair. Animals are a commitment not just a pet.

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I'm sorry, but I really take exception to this. Kids are easier to pay for? Are you freakin' kidding me? I've got three...JUST three...and I spend about $1000+ a month on groceries alone. That doesn't include clothes...school supplies...the myriad of other school expenses no one ever talks about...doctor visits...dentist visits...hair cuts...entertainment ('cause goodness knows kids today gotta be entertained!)....TOYS....furniture...linens............ Shall I go on?

Why on earth should the "state" (ie: ME and everyone like me who pays taxes) pay for your PETS??? Yes, they ARE a commitment....but they are a commitment that YOU CHOSE to take on. You didn't HAVE to get anything at all. I know you WANTED them....but that does not mean you HAVE to have them.

It's time to face some hard facts. YOU are a good person...I've no doubt about that. You've got a warm, sweet heart. But you've also got a tremendous amount of growing up to do....and growing up begins with making hard choices that HURT.