What else can we feed our BPs aside from rodents

i saw from garter snake area that they are feeding the snake salmon?? O.O

Can you feed it whatever you're going to feed it the rest of it's life in the event that it refuses any other food from that point onward?

I don't know about the nutritional stuff, but the above seems to be the prevailing argument against feeding ball pythons unusual items.

BP's are already pickey eaters anyways....so I would find it unwise to feed it anything other the rodents. I am no expert by any means but I would think fish would be lacking some of the nutrients that they need as well as I am not sure how well they would do with the oils from fish.

I wish they were egg-eaters. So much cheaper, right? But I can just see a ball python trying to constrict an egg and having it go flying across the room like Julia Roberts' escargot in Pretty Woman.

last night i fed mine 2 BABY mice that were barely moving. It was a struggle because the snake wants to attack movement. She eventually got them after I prodded the baby mice a little to move (sad), and then I gave her two regular sized mice. She went after those immediately, and actually got them down her body faster.

When I was young I used to feed my garter snakes 10 goldfish - 10 for $1 at the pet store. It was fun to watch the snake swim around in the goldfish bowl with its mouth open, going after them like a dragon from the atari game "Adventure." I also used to feed the garters baby frogs that I caught wild from a sump up the street too. They pretty much ate anything.

My guess is that a snake will eat anything that moves if it is hungry enough. Sure - they get used to eating the same thing but if they're hungry enough they should eat. I think the key, though, with snakes who are used to live feeding, is MOVEMENT. Snakes are predators and want to hunt, unless you are lucky enough to have a snake that is cool with eating thawed frozens.

Ball pythons are hard wired to eat rodents - they aren't going to eat fish.

BTW, what's your definition of baby mice? All my hatchlings get hopper to small adult mice as their first meals.

basic understanding of the animals would allow you to know ball pythons eat rodents, garter snakes, who are not pythons, not the same size, and not from the same continent or climate as ball pythons, eat a lot of fish and amphibians in the wild. and trust me, ive had them, feeding fish is worse. feeder fish also are terribly unnutritious and theres a good chance they carry parasites and such. plus its really really messy, compared to rodents at least

i also start all the balls on rats, thats all they get

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kiddomarc

i saw from garter snake area that they are feeding the snake salmon?? O.O

---

Ball pythons eat Rodents...there is no other option..

the baby mice were smaller than my thumb, vision not developed, very small amount of hair - still pinkish.

as for the other post - just making a comment that if a snake is hungry enough, it will eat whatever small living thing you put in front of him... guaranteed.

I did not comment about which is better food/nutrition source or anything like that.

Quote:

---

as for the other post - just making a comment that if a snake is hungry enough, it will eat whatever small living thing you put in front of him... guaranteed.

---

Sorry, But this is completely wrong. BP's are very picky. Some will only eat ASF's, some rats and some mice. Some BPs wont even give a mouse any attention, let alone striking and consuming it.

Another example are JCP's. Many JCP's wont make the switch from mice to rats. It doesnt matter if its just moving. You can wiggle your finger in front of your BP and it wont strike unless its been scented. Its not just about movement with the snakes. Its about scent. Some BP's will wait for that special chemical sequence to be brought to their jacobson's organ until they decide they want to eat the prey.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintod

the baby mice were smaller than my thumb, vision not developed, very small amount of hair - still pinkish.

---

you should up your prey size a pinky mouse is way to small for a bp, hatchlings start off on hoppers and quickly move up to sm adult mice alot of people even start them off on rat pinks and quickly move up to rat pups.

they waste more energy killing and eating prey to small than they get from them

IMHO, you have to look at the fauna that has been available to them since the beginning of their species. God (nature, or what ever you believe in) has, as it was said earlier, "hard-wired" them to eat food items that are available in the wild. In their African environment, the only valuable food source in abundance would be nocturnal rodents. This is a multifaceted food source. Not only are these rodents active when the pythons are, (or the pythons are nocturnal because that is when the food is active, but I digress) the pythons use the rodent burrows for hides during the blistering hot hours of the day time. While also giving them a secure hide to take the time needed to eat the inhabitants of the burrow. Not saying they don't surface hunt but it is the reason some bp's will only take food when put in a smaller box or dark cloth bag.
So, what you have is really a finely tuned coexistence that has had millions of years to perfect itself. Whether your pythons have been CB for generations or are imported, the python knows what millions of years of success as a species has taught it. Eat rodents.
Also, the very reason that bp's don't require UV lights and bone aids like most lizards is the fact that their bodies have adapted in a way that they extract the nutrients they need from the skeletons of their prey. Reptiles that tend to feed on fish(having mostly cartilage), invertebrates(having exoskeletons made of a matrix of complex proteins, not calcium), and other such food items require sun, or UV basking for proper bone development and health.
In essence, they eat what they eat because that is what has made them successful for millions of years. You don't see Great White sharks eating sea weed or plankton. It just doesn't work for them. The same as gold fish do not work for Ball Pythons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 771subliminal

you should up your prey size a pinky mouse is way to small for a bp, hatchlings start off on hoppers and quickly move up to sm adult mice alot of people even start them off on rat pinks and quickly move up to rat pups.

they waste more energy killing and eating prey to small than they get from them

---

yeah - i noticed the same thing - it took longer to kill/eat the tiny pinky, which was almost too small for the snake to squeeze. This is why I immediately went back out to the store to purchase larger mice (So, in total, she ate two pinkies and two regular). The person I adopted the snake from was a dunce, to the point where I look like a pro in comparison.

I still stick to my initial statement that if a BP is hungry enough, it will eat anything small that moves. Maybe captive bred BPs would allow themselves to starve to death if no mice are available, but the primary goal of any creature in nature is to live, mice or no mice. BPs included.

It's really weird and counters their instinct to survive, but they can and will starve themselves to death. The rats and mice we feed them aren't native to Central Africa, and I kind of doubt they're common. It makes sense for them to fail to recognize them as food. There's a reason ASFs work so well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loonunit

I wish they were egg-eaters. So much cheaper, right? But I can just see a ball python trying to constrict an egg and having it go flying across the room like Julia Roberts' escargot in Pretty Woman.

---

You can't feed chicken eggs to reptiles.. they're toxic. Egg eating snakes are very difficult to feed in captivity because we just don't have the resources to feed them the proper eggs, and chicken eggs are not an option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintod

the baby mice were smaller than my thumb, vision not developed, very small amount of hair - still pinkish.

as for the other post - just making a comment that if a snake is hungry enough, it will eat whatever small living thing you put in front of him... guaranteed.

I did not comment about which is better food/nutrition source or anything like that.

---

You can stick to your statement as much as you'd like, but it still is completely incorrect. Many ball pythons have not thrived and some have perished due to stress or just simply, they never ate regularly. Some snakes will starve themselves to death. There have been multiple instances of such.

Now I'm curious. Why are the chicken eggs "toxic."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintod

as for the other post - just making a comment that if a snake is hungry enough, it will eat whatever small living thing you put in front of him... guaranteed.

---

Sorry - afraid that's not guaranteed with ball pythons - I can guarantee you - they won't eat a fish. They won't even recognize it as prey.

BTW, you definitely need to go up in size on what you're offering your snake.

like humans were susposed to live off of steak and potatos (jk), bps were meant to live off rodents :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintod

I still stick to my initial statement that if a BP is hungry enough, it will eat anything small that moves. Maybe captive bred BPs would allow themselves to starve to death if no mice are available, but the primary goal of any creature in nature is to live, mice or no mice. BPs included.

---

I'm curious to what studies you can cite to back this statement up? Captive bred BP's are no different than wild hatched ball pythons. We're only a few generations removed - their instincts are the same.

You little one looks adorable! But here's just a few things I've learned myself over time.
1. If you feed live, you have to keep a close eye on the snake and mouse. I know everyone had told you that, but my snake ended up getting bite in the eye after a live feeding. She got the rat back good (by eating it), but even then, it was still an accident due to live feed (also, the accident happened while she was constricting).
2. Is that the reptile bark you're using? While I know every one has different opinions on it, I would personally suggest picking up a can of Provent-A-Mite (PAM). I use to have that in my snake enclosure, and she got mites. Currently I use cypress mulch, and it works wonders for me.

Anyways, those where just my own two little tips/pointers. I'm no expert, so don't take everything to heart. I've only owned my snake for three months, but I've learned so much from her, and from here.

Dude, I have personally witnessed dozens of snakes starve themselves to death, wild caught and captive bred both. Lots of animal species when kept in captivity can and will refuse food until they literally starve to death, google it...

There is no way you can say a hungry ball python will eat anything that moves if its hungry enough, because it is simply not true...

Any argument on your part about this will immediately be moot because you obviously are stating your mistaken belief and not a fact...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ham

Any argument on your part about this will immediately be moot because you obviously are stating your mistaken belief and not a fact...

---

Get 'em Ham!!!!

If ANY ball python when it gets hungry enough will eat anything small that moves, how do you explain the baby ball python I have owned for approximately 8 weeks and offered multiple live prey items refused to eat and eventually starved to death.

And why the only other baby who also refused to eat is ONLY still alive because I broke down and force fed it ? Which was NOT a pleasant experience and also why I only did one.

You have absolutely NO clue what you are talking about. To make a totally random, blanket statement like that is quite foolish and immature. :colbert:

Now, if you had said, "I think most ball pythons when hungry enough will eat pretty much anything small that moves." That would have been more on target.

Gale

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loonunit

I wish they were egg-eaters. So much cheaper, right? But I can just see a ball python trying to constrict an egg and having it go flying across the room like Julia Roberts' escargot in Pretty Woman.

---

Now I have that image stuck in my head and I cant stop laughing, lol. :rofl: :rofl:

:rage:Look, I am going to make this really simple for those of you who can't seem to understand this. Ball Pythons are as God made them. Consumers of RODENTS!!! My studies are sound. My understanding of Ball pythons is well founded. Please refer to my post on page 2 of this thread. Long winded as it may be it is correct. If you doubt me, by all means, CONTACT YOUR LOCAL ZOO HERPILOGICAL SPECIALIST, REPTILE SPECIALIZED VET, UNIVERSITY HERPILOGICAL STUDIES DEPARTMENT, OR A UPSTANDING ACCREDITED PROFESSIONAL BREEDER.
Do not doubt this fact! If you force feed a ball python a diet of fish, insects, eggs, or anything else to this effect, YOU WILL KILL YOUR SNAKE!!! Do your research!!! Nothing infuriates me like someone who is willing to endanger a living creatures health or life by telling people who may not know better a false statement like the filth I have read in earlier posts on this thread. If your bp is hungry enough it will eat anything? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!!!! OK, for those of you who think this, starve yourself and then when you are on the brink of death eat feces. See how far you get. Plain and simple, Ball Pythons do not possess the enzymes to digest egg, or fish proteins. Just like humans cannot safely digest feces. Some animals can, but humans cannot.

For the sake of the living breathing animals, do not lead astray those herp keepers here who honestly do not know better.:rage:

But......

What if you scent the fish with a rat or chicken broth??
I think I'm on to something. :O


justkiddingdontkillme

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redstormlax12

Sorry, But this is completely wrong. BP's are very picky. Some will only eat ASF's, some rats and some mice. Some BPs wont even give a mouse any attention, let alone striking and consuming it.

Another example are JCP's. Many JCP's wont make the switch from mice to rats. It doesnt matter if its just moving. You can wiggle your finger in front of your BP and it wont strike unless its been scented. Its not just about movement with the snakes. Its about scent. Some BP's will wait for that special chemical sequence to be brought to their jacobson's organ until they decide they want to eat the prey.

---

I got a couple "BIG" girl BP's, you wanna come wiggle your finger in front of them......dare ya :)

Everyone needs to chill.

All I said was hungry snake (including BPs) + available small pray = din-din.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my wacky, hair-brained ideas of a wild animal eating when it is hungry in order to survive... I've readily offered up that I am a newb at this and don't own or breed hundreds of snakes. Just making an astute general observation about nature, and, in particular, hungry predators.

Check this report out by the way: http://www.anapsid.org/ball.html

Notably, the 3rd paragraph.

Contrast that with Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_python#Feeding

Wiki mentions rodents and also birds as natural prey, while pointing out the captivity and eating problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintod

Everyone needs to chill.

All I said was hungry snake (including BPs) + available small pray = din-din.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my wacky, hair-brained ideas of a wild animal eating when it is hungry in order to survive... I've readily offered up that I am a newb at this and don't own or breed hundreds of snakes. Just making an astute general observation about nature, and, in particular, hungry predators.

Check this report out by the way: http://www.anapsid.org/ball.html

Notably, the 3rd paragraph.

Contrast that with Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_python#Feeding

Wiki mentions rodents and also birds as natural prey, while pointing out the captivity and eating problems.

---

That first link is the most awful thing I have ever read. Just about ALL of it is plain wrong. Excuse me while I go rip this thing apart.

By the way, the WIKI is right. As most wikis are.

I thought so too. I put much more stock in the wiki article. Its just odd that the report is the first thing that comes up when you google "what do ball pythons eat in the wild" - wiki does mention birds though; interesting. must be some fast snakes to catch a bird before it takes off to fly... unless they're eating hatchlings in a nest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintod

I thought so too. I put much more stock in the wiki article. Its just odd that the report is the first thing that comes up when you google "what do ball pythons eat in the wild" - wiki does mention birds though.

---

And some people do feed their ball pythons chicks. Though it makes their poo smell disgusting and isn't as widely available.

Point being, they eat rodents and will sometimes eat birds. That is about it.

You have to realize that I am an attorney; I argue just for fun sometimes.
:o)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintod

You have to realize that I am an attorney; I argue just for fun sometimes.
:o)

---

I can't say I don't like arguing :D

That link is also fourteen years old. Wiki is updated constantly. Imagine the wiki page we could write.

Steve you are so right man, Wikipedia can be great but you need to realize that almost anyone can alter those articles your reading, and who the heck knows what sorta moron is writing those wikipedia pages?

They could totally be false and they dont go through any official fact checking!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ham

Steve you are so right man, Wikipedia can be great but you need to realize that almost anyone can alter those articles your reading, and who the heck knows what sorta moron is writing those wikipedia pages?

They could totally be false and they dont go through any official fact checking!

---

yes but i have noticed wiki has provided 95% correct information on many things that i have vast amounts of knowledge of!

You might also notice most of the quotes in the first article are 15 - 20 years old, hence the inconsistencies.

The longer we have them the more we learn about them, just like with any animal.

Gale

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stevepoppers

That link is also fourteen years old. Wiki is updated constantly. Imagine the wiki page we could write.

---

Good point, I read the date at the top (this year) not the date of the article.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ham

Steve you are so right man, Wikipedia can be great but you need to realize that almost anyone can alter those articles your reading, and who the heck knows what sorta moron is writing those wikipedia pages?

They could totally be false and they dont go through any official fact checking!

---

Wikipedia is actually PROVEN to be more accurate than any single source commentary. I am actually reading a book on the accuracy of Wikipedia. Many college professors also agree that wikipedia is an accurate source.

It has something to do with how groups collaborate. Its pretty cool actually.

Dont get me wrong I use wikipedia all the time, its just u need to take it all with a grain of salt. Just realize its limitations...

Same with any media. Pretty much anyone can publish a book about something they appear to be knowledgeable on. There was that guy who faked his whole life story and pissed off Oprah. Anyone can get an account here and start spewing information with logical but false foundations and become very influential. People are still afraid of balls ingesting substrate, yet no one seems to have ever actually had a problem with it. TV, news, and documentaries are wrong a lot. College professors, doctors, all kinds of "professionals." You have to take anything you didn't learn or prove yourself with a big grain of salt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintod

Everyone needs to chill.

All I said was hungry snake (including BPs) + available small pray = din-din.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my wacky, hair-brained ideas of a wild animal eating when it is hungry in order to survive... I've readily offered up that I am a newb at this and don't own or breed hundreds of snakes. Just making an astute general observation about nature, and, in particular, hungry predators.

---

No offence taken.. however I can tell you that I have (seen with my eye's and held with my hands) baby as well as juvi ball pythons that have starved themselves to death..The idea that a a hungry snake will simply because it is hungry is absurd. Wild caught adult reptiles are notorious for starving themselves to Death.

I understand what you were trying to convey however blanket statements in the reptile world don't hold true..Ever..just some food for thought.

I offered one of my picky eaters a hotdog and he just looked at me like im an idiot.
I'll stick with rats.

My redtailed boas on the other hand will eat anything i put in front of them. There is no doubt that hotdog would have dissapeared in seconds.

i guess now that explains it why ball pythons make a good pet... since they are very picky with what they eat (hard wired to eat rodents) that's why it's not 'usually' aggressive with humans (unless they smell like rodents). very interesting and that totally make sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

No offence taken.. however I can tell you that I have (seen with my eye's and held with my hands) baby as well as juvi ball pythons that have starved themselves to death..The idea that a a hungry snake will simply because it is hungry is absurd. Wild caught adult reptiles are notorious for starving themselves to Death.

I understand what you were trying to convey however blanket statements in the reptile world don't hold true..Ever..just some food for thought.

---

THAT TOO is a blanket statement.. also food for thought :o)

Some of you people absolutely slay me. Nothing is funnier that "watching" some boob attempt to teach using inaccurate, regurgitated facts.

What if I told you I could produce a study that examined the gastric contents of wild ball pythons?

What if I told you that this study determined that some ball pythons were found to have a predilection for birds? A wide, wide range of birds and wide, wide range of mammals. Would that get you to clam up and do your homework before getting into an argument you know nothing about?

Probably not.

Word to the wise - it's hard to school someone when you're attempting to talk around a mouthful of crap.

In addition to ball pythons, for years we herp keepers have been getting snakes to eat animals they wouldn't encounter in the wild. In many, many years of keeping snakes, both wild caught and captive bred, coming in heavily parasitized, stressed and being weaned onto non-native diets, I have never had a snake starve itself to death.

So yeah, to the person who has personally witnessed "dozens" of snakes starve themselves to death - bull spit. You heard me - bull spit.

Lol, ok man, I hate to tell you that its not bullspit, I have seen dozens of snakes starve themselves to death, I work at a reptile shelter, we have hundreds upon hundreds of sick and abused snakes that are confiscated from criminals and illegal smugglers, we deal with alot of venomous snakes that are brought into the country packed into weird objects like tires and other household items, we also got a ton of animals from the importer for PetCo, US Global Exotics, they were really abusing their animals. We got about 600 animals from them, a number of them were snakes ranging from baby king snakes to juvenile green anacondas, we lost probably about half of the animals that came in, many were sick and dying when we got them, but I personally watched every green anaconda refuse to eat until it was dead, as well as a crapload of milk snakes, and ball pythons in particular were impossible to get them eating again, I think every ball we received from them refused to eat even a single meal (they are all dead but 2). These animals may have already been abused and ill, but what else would you call an animal that doesnt eat until its dead, oh yeah that would be starving itself to death...
PS Coral snakes are notoriously picky eaters and if the correct prey items are not found will definitely not feed until they are dead...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintod

THAT TOO is a blanket statement.. also food for thought :o)

---

You're absolutely correct I'm sorry

Freakie Frog, I need your help man, I feel attacked here! Someone called my comments bullspit! LOL

If you've never had a snake starve itself to death, you are just lucky.

I got in a bag of 10 baby balls from Africa. Eight started eating within a few weeks, two would not. I tried live fuzzy mice, hopper mice, pinky rats, fuzzy rats, F/T mice and rats, you name it I tried it. Those two just kept getting thinner and thinner, they seemed to have no idea what food was. I tried assist feeding several times, nothing. I tried paper bags, deli cups, crumpled newspaper in the tubs, overnight... there wasn't a method on the internet I didn't try.

I broke down and force fed one, I about vomited doing it so I stopped at one. That baby is still with me, even though it still will not eat on it's own. The other baby finally wasted away to nothing and died without ever taking a meal.

Don't you dare sit there and tell me it doesn't happen, because it does.

Gale

This is a terrible subject, I can tell you that losing a snake to starvation is terrible, it is not only physically painful for the animal, but it is exruciating to try to deal with, I can speak from experience when I say that is probably one of the most stressful things that could happen to a snake owner, the debate that rages in your head about what you can do to fix the situation is agonizing, its back and forth about whether a force feed is a good idea or not, and the constant attempts to try to get the snake to eat is stressful in itself when it is constantly met by failure. I am sorry you had to go through that Gale, but thanks for backing me up on this one...