Some pics and a question

Is he a healthy size? He's about 1 1/2 years old. 4 1/2 feet long. 1842 grams (4.06 pounds). Also.. What is he (BCI or BCC)?

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...5/img_8699.jpg

This one is from a few weeks ago.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/5/9/0/5/1023.jpg

Anyone?

Wow, that is a good weight for that age - it must be a BCC but I am only guessing by the weight.

My almost 2 year old RTB BCI is only about 900 grams.

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Originally Posted by L.West

Wow, that is a good weight for that age - it must be a BCC but I am only guessing by the weight.

My almost 2 year old RTB BCI is only about 900 grams.

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definitely not a BCC. He's a Colombian BCI.

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

definitely not a BCC. He's a Colombian BCI.

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Remember that sometimes it depends on the individual animal, their eating habits and the like. Some just grow faster than others.
But if could hazard a guess, i'd say BCI.

oh, and he's gorgeous by the way :D
i'm looking to get one real soon as well. they're beautiful animals.
have to convince the wife though...which shouldn't be too hard as it only took me a day to convince her to let me get our BP.

How can you tell?

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Originally Posted by reptile_lover07

How can you tell?

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i was told that it deals with the saddles, head size, and tail coloration but then again you cant always rely on that because there are some instances where BCC and BCI are crossed.

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Originally Posted by snakeyes

oh, and he's gorgeous by the way :D
i'm looking to get one real soon as well. they're beautiful animals.
have to convince the wife though...which shouldn't be too hard as it only took me a day to convince her to let me get our BP.

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Thanks. :snake:

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Originally Posted by SGB_74

i was told that it deals with the saddles, head size, and tail coloration but then again you cant always rely on that because there are some instances where BCC and BCI are crossed.

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This may be a stupid question.. But is there any way to know for sure?

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Originally Posted by reptile_lover07

Thanks. :snake:



This may be a stupid question.. But is there any way to know for sure?

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Trust me he's a Colombian BCI. You can just look at him and tell.

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

Trust me he's a Colombian BCI. You can just look at him and tell.

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From his saddles?

I honestly believe he is a BCC or a cross. Most likely a BCC. He has only 14/15 saddles before the red of the tail begins. The red of the tail is very long and starts very early as compared to BCI. He does not have a cross or crucifix on his head. It is only a single stripe. The sides of the tail are very marbled with the little circles of red swirling and white or cream in between those. The saddles are mostly connected with a line running both sides of the snake at the bottom of the saddles. And the nice red diamonds all along the sides below the saddles with white spots. In all honesty it looks like a guyana. They are very similer to a surinam. You are very lucky if that is what you have there :)

These are all things to look for in a BCC. The only truly definative way to tell though is by doing a scale count.

w00hoo will tell you for sure but Im pretty sure he will agree with me.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I honestly believe he is a BCC or a cross. Most likely a BCC. He has only 14/15 saddles before the red of the tail begins. The red of the tail is very long and starts very early as compared to BCI. He does not have a cross or crucifix on his head. It is only a single stripe. The sides of the tail are very marbled with the little circles of red swirling and white or cream in between those. The saddles are mostly connected with a line running both sides of the snake at the bottom of the saddles. And the nice red diamonds all along the sides below the saddles with white spots. In all honesty it looks like guyana. They are very similer to a surinam. You are very luck if that what you have there :)

These are all things to look for in a BCC. The only truly definative way to tell though is by doing a scale count.

w00hoo will tell you for sure but Im pretty sure he will agree with me.

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That "BCC" has no peaks or a red tail.

Can you please get a couple close up pictures of the head? Id like to see the top of the head and the side of the face.

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

That "BCC" has no peaks or a red tail.

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Not all guyanas and surinames have peaks. My male from vin russo has no peaks with a half body stripe. My female only has a peak or two. Every other one of her saddles connect to form little guitars.

Having peaked saddles is actually a very bad thing to base it on. Most BCC will not have peaks. The ones that do will fetch a higher price. Try to find some pictures of entire litters and you will see what I mean.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Can you please get a couple close up pictures of the head? Id like to see the top of the head and the side of the face.

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I might have some. Let me go see. Do they need to be recent?

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Originally Posted by reptile_lover07

I might have some. Let me go see. Do they need to be recent?

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No they dont. But if that snake has "eyelash" markings, even very faint or small ones than its definately a BCC but this is also something not every single BCC will have.

Another thing IS the size. He does look to be very rectangular shaped. Also a good indicator. If he is a cross, he took after the BCC. If you have future breeding plans try to find a definate suriname or guyana to breed him to.

Just saying BCC's don't have light colored saddles or an orange tail.

Ok. Let me know if you need better ones. These are both a few months old.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/5/9/0/5/1022.jpg


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/5/9/0/5/918.jpg

Here is an older photo of my female. She is not as clean as my male. She is covered in those pepper spots including on her belly. Does your boa change colors? BCC can change color depending on time of day and mood like many other locality boas. The only thing that makes me think he may be a cross is the color of the tail like darkcomesoon points out but Im giving you the benefit of the doubt. The head shots will help.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...5/dscf0990.jpg

Huh.. Thats weird. You can really see his color there. He does have pink on him that I can see but his base color is strangely creamy orange. It looks like he almost has eyelash markings but not quite. Its very hard to tell. I bet he is a cross. Everything else points to BCC.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Here is an older photo of my female. She is not as clean as my male. She is covered in those pepper spots including on her belly. Does your boa change colors? BCC can change color depending on time of day and mood like many other locality boas. The only thing that makes me think he may be a cross is the color of the tail like darkcomesoon points out but Im giving you the benefit of the doubt. The head shots will help.

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Posted the pics. We haven't noticed him changing colors.

BCI allday.:2cent:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Here is an older photo of my female. She is not as clean as my male. She is covered in those pepper spots including on her belly. Does your boa change colors? BCC can change color depending on time of day and mood like many other locality boas. The only thing that makes me think he may be a cross is the color of the tail like darkcomesoon points out but Im giving you the benefit of the doubt. The head shots will help.

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It might help to mention... The other boa (his brother or sister) had an orangish tail too. More orange then mine.

Its unusual that he has so many BCC traits but a couple things dont add up. Take a look at this thread I'm posting from another forum about scale count. The poster that states that it can be confusing because the scale counts of different boas can overlap is right on the point of crosses, but it is a proven way of identifying. In fact its sometimes the only way to tell a surinam from a guyana. Then again these two often interbreed in the wild since surinam and guyana are part of the same land mass.

Use a good shed skin to do the count and do it a few times to be sure you have the right numbers.

If the scale count says BCC then I say its a cross. There are 5 different BCC that I personally know of. Im sure there are more. But none of them are quite so orange in color as yours is.

http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/boa...le-counts.html

This may be helpful to you. A scale count sheet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...scalecount.jpg

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Its unusual that he has so many BCC traits but a couple things dont add up. Take a look at this thread I'm posting from another forum about scale count. The poster that states that it can be confusing because the scale counts of different boas can overlap is right on the point of crosses, but it is a proven way of identifying. In fact its sometimes the only way to tell a surinam from a guyana. Then again these two often interbreed in the wild since surinam and guyana are part of the same land mass.

Use a good shed skin to do the count and do it a few times to be sure you have the right numbers.

If the scale count says BCC then I say its a cross. There are 5 different BCC that I personally know of. Im sure there are more. But none of them are quite so orange in color as yours is.

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Ok. We counted the scales 242 the first time and 240 the second time. Also, I took some pictures of his belly and tail. I'll post them in a minute.

He is a really nice looking BCI, most definitely. Check out Rio Bravos true red tails.
http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/boas_trueredtails.htm
He is a really good size to. Even male BCI can get quite large, mine's dad was a good eight feet.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Huh.. Thats weird. You can really see his color there. He does have pink on him that I can see but his base color is strangely creamy orange. It looks like he almost has eyelash markings but not quite. Its very hard to tell. I bet he is a cross. Everything else points to BCC.

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He has pink/creamy orange along his belly too.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Here is an older photo of my female. She is not as clean as my male. She is covered in those pepper spots including on her belly. Does your boa change colors? BCC can change color depending on time of day and mood like many other locality boas. The only thing that makes me think he may be a cross is the color of the tail like darkcomesoon points out but Im giving you the benefit of the doubt. The head shots will help.

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His belly is spotted too.. especially towards the tail. What do you mean by changing colors exactly?

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...5/img_8701.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...5/img_8703.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...5/img_8704.jpg

He's actually more pink/orange on his belly then those show.

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Originally Posted by reptile_lover07

Ok. We counted the scales 242 the first time and 240 the second time. Also, I took some pictures of his belly and tail. I'll post them in a minute.

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You just counted the ventral scales?
You also need to count the dorsal scales.

I'm a little bit torn on this one, because the coloring is definitely BCI looking but the saddles and the style of pattern is very BCC..

Probably a cross, they are pretty common afterall.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

You just counted the ventral scales?
You also need to count the dorsal scales.

I'm a little bit torn on this one, because the coloring is definitely BCI looking but the saddles and the style of pattern is very BCC..

Probably a cross, they are pretty common afterall.

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~Agreed.. Count the other scales and compare the 3 sets of numbers to the graph. All that speckling is very pretty. That and the light eyes are also a possible BCC trait. Maybe its a BCC crossed with a hypo BCI?

By changing colors I mean from light to dark and vice versa. The pink/orange areas would get more pink while the darker areas would get much darker. The light version would mean the snake looks a couple shades lighter.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

~Agreed.. Count the other scales and compare the 3 sets of numbers to the graph. All that speckling is very pretty. That and the light eyes are also a possible BCC trait. Maybe its a BCC crossed with a hypo BCI?

By changing colors I mean from light to dark and vice versa. The pink/orange areas would get more pink while the darker areas would get much darker. The light version would mean the snake looks a couple shades lighter.

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Light eyes are not a BCC trait normal BCI's have the same color.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

You just counted the ventral scales?
You also need to count the dorsal scales.

I'm a little bit torn on this one, because the coloring is definitely BCI looking but the saddles and the style of pattern is very BCC..

Probably a cross, they are pretty common afterall.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

~Agreed.. Count the other scales and compare the 3 sets of numbers to the graph. All that speckling is very pretty. That and the light eyes are also a possible BCC trait. Maybe its a BCC crossed with a hypo BCI?

By changing colors I mean from light to dark and vice versa. The pink/orange areas would get more pink while the darker areas would get much darker. The light version would mean the snake looks a couple shades lighter.

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Then, yes. He does change colors throughout the day. How am I supposed to count ALL the dorsal scales?

Counting scales is not 100% when checking for BCC or BCI.

There is not one thing about that snake that says BCC. He's a BCI.

Go over to www.redtailboa.net and post up pictures. Then see how many people say he's a BCC. :rolleyes:

Also, the pattern of the saddles is called circle back. Not a common BCC trait. It is seen more in BCI.

He's a BCI one hundred percent I used to keep BCC"s forever weight scale counting aren't accurate because theres so many scales you always end up with a number close to the one you want. The colours are browned out the red in a BCC is RED!! and the white between on the tail is WHITE!!!! you get to know about the BCI and BCC diffrences as you look at alot of pictures redtailboa site is awesome used to be there all the time until I parted with the reds and went into the balls

Heres my old female about 5 yrs old ............ the saddles are there but differnt aswell I will message you with the pic I cant add it

Looks like a Key West Boa to me!

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Originally Posted by shaunb79

Looks like a Key West Boa to me!

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Isn't he too dark and speckled to be a Key West boa? They're mostly gray.

You should really go over to redtailboa.net and post some pics of your boa there. The folks on that site could give you some really useful info, and I can assure you they will know what local your boa is.

The only people I'm seeing with true experience with different varieties of these animals is saying it has BCC traits.

Everyone else, having one or two BCC or BCI in your collection is not enough for comparison. Just because your snake had one trait does not mean all the rest will.

You know what I would do? Message Jimisnakes.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

The only people I'm seeing with true experience with different varieties of these animals is saying it has BCC traits.

Everyone else, having one or two BCC or BCI in your collection is not enough for comparison. Just because your snake had one trait does not mean all the rest will.

You know what I would do? Message Jimisnakes.

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You know what? This is the best reply yet. Look up jimisnakes and vin russo. Send them both pictures. They are the 2 people that have more experience with the different boa localities then anyone else here. If you send them these pictures they will tell you what you have.

If I was you, I would send Jeff Ronne an email about your Boa! It really looks like a Colombian "type" Boa and maybe a KWB to me!

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

You know what? This is the best reply yet. Look up jimisnakes and vin russo. Send them both pictures. They are the 2 people that have more experience with the different boa localities then anyone else here. If you send them these pictures they will tell you what you have.

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Ok!

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Originally Posted by reptile_lover07

Isn't he too dark and speckled to be a Key West boa? They're mostly gray.

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KWBs only start out with a baby grey color!

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Originally Posted by shaunb79

KWBs only start out with a baby grey color!

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Oh ok.

i dont know if this may help you or not but take a look.

http://i43.tinypic.com/axzck8.jpg

Hi,

Can I ask where that pic came from, where it is stored online and who it belongs to?

The tinypic link hides its location but we still do not wat to hotlink from other websites without permission.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Can I ask where that pic came from, where it is stored online and who it belongs to?

The tinypic link hides its location but we still do not wat to hotlink from other websites without permission.


dr del

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it came from a forum that i'm also a member of, i believe its called constrictors.com here's the thread which is where the chart is posted.

http://www.constrictors.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=26437

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Can I ask where that pic came from, where it is stored online and who it belongs to?

The tinypic link hides its location but we still do not wat to hotlink from other websites without permission.


dr del

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as far as where its stored online i don't know, i saved the pic from that forum and hosted via tinypic. if i did something wrong in posting the chart then could you delete the post for me.