New to BPs please help!

Hi all

I am going to be asking about the same issues that always come up, ie. temp in a glass tank, humidity, etc. I have read many posts on these same subjects, but will ask anyways so that hopefully I can fix my specific situation! Plz don't get annoyed and bear with me!

I wish I'd discovered this forum prior to getting my BP but unfortunately I didn't. My little guy, Malcolm, is about 5 months, from a pet store.
I have had him for just over a week and I adore him and want to do everything possible to keep him happy and healthy. The good news is that he is eating fine. I fed him 2 days after I brought him home, as he was due for a feeding according to the pet store, and 5 days after that. Both times he struck at the mouse (f/t) after about 3 secs of me dangling it in front of him, constricted, and ate it right up. (Although the 2nd time he missed the mouse and bit me first, so I now will use tongs!) So he is eating no prob. However:

Here is my overlong explanation- sorry for such a long post I am just freaking out!!!

When I brought him home, the pet store sold me a 20L 'critter cage' with 1 75watt infared bulb. I was told this would be enough to heat the tank and create the proper gradient. (I also bought two hides, water dish, log thingy, plastic plants etc. I think my tank set up is fine, I am just having real trouble with my temps.)

I set up the tank with the 75w bulb, with my little dial thermometer, and could tell immediately that the temps were too low- in the low 70s on the cool end and in the 80s just under the lamp. I needed to bring up both sides.
I contacted the store, who told me to buy a 100w bulb instead. I installed the 100w bulb, which bumped up the hot side to the 90s, great, but the cool end was still low 70s. After a day or two the humidity seemed to evaporate also. (I'm using a bark mulch substrate that the pet store sells in plastic bags.)

I was getting frustrated, so this is when I found this forum. I bought two proper thermometers (I'm in Canada, couldn't find Acurrite, so I bought "National Geographic" indoor/outdoor thermometers, which are the same thing, dig display of indoor, outdoor temps plus humidity.) I bought two thermometers. This made it clear that my hot temps were 90s right under the lamp and low 70s on the cool end, plus my humidity was under 40.

What to do! So I went out and bought an exo-terra Rainforest UTH. Size small, 4 watts. I plugged it in and foil taped it to the bottom... and the temperature didn't budge. Seriously those exo terra mats do nothing... I don't understand. I didn't have a dimmer, but could barely feel a temp increase on the pad itself. Nothing that even registered on the probe against the glass under the substrate.

So next, I went to a different pet store to buy a bigger size UTH. The sales assoc. plugged a medium and large size of exo terra Desert UtHs into sockets for me so I could see they heated up correctly. Neither of them got even remotely warm, just the slightest little increase. We waited for 5-10 mins before the sales assoc. had to admit that they really weren't doing much. She plugged in a Zoo Med brand and it immediately heated up, so I bought that one. (Any reason why all those exo terra brand UTHs didn't work for me? That's a small Rainforest pad, a med and large Desert pad, from two different stores- same results?) I also bought a dimmer from Home Depot.

I switched my bulb back to 75watts, I plugged the dimmer in, to my new Zoo Med UTH and let it warm up on my floor with a thermometer probe on it, until it reached 90 and seemed to stay there. I stuck the Zoo Med brand UTH/dimmer under my tank. I didn't use foil tape because it kept getting tangled and stuck together and I was frustrated and just wanted to get my snake warm. So I used the adhesive.

I buried one thermometer outdoor probe under the substrate and let the indoor sit near his warm hide. Now the hot side Substrate temp was 90 and the hot side ambient temp was 86ish. (right under the 75w bulb). On the other side however, the substrate temp was low 70s and the ambient temp was low 70s. Nothing changed on that side.

So I went back to the store and bought ANOTHER Zoo Med UTh, plus a dimmer. (This was beginning to cost me so much money, plus time, plus stress on me not to mention my poor snake) I set these up under the cool side of the tank.

This is when I started to have problems- Before I went to bed the substrate temps were both around 96... on both sides. I couldn't seem to change one with out both sides begin affected. So I lowered the dimmer on the cool side a bit, and the dimmer on the hot side a teensy bit. In the AM, Both sides read 74 as the substrate temp. So I raised both a teeny bit, then went to work. At around 4:00 my mother called my at work to tell me they both read 105%! I freaked out, told her to dim them, and raced home after work.

When I got home, they were both reading 74. I turned one off, and left one on... after a few hours I turned it up again. It stayed around 88 (which was fine for now) for hours... Right before I went to bed I checked and it still read 88.... I checked again 30 mins later and it read 115 degrees!! It's nuts, I feel like the temps on the thermometers keep jumping... they aren't climbing up and down so I can regulate, they are just reading one thing, and then jumping to another 15 degrees different, so it's impossible for me to tell where I should keep the dimmer!

I don't understand, I am not moving the switch on these dimmers more the the tiniest millimeter. How come the temps are sliding up and down like this?

My poor snake, I don't know what to do, because these temps are sliding all over the place under him and I feel so worried! I have to work during the day and I am so stressed out about him being ok.

At this point I unplugged the UTH and let it cool down. The tank was back to where it started, with the 75w bulb, under the bulb the hot side was 86 and the cool side was 74, both substrate temps were 72. I left this overnight, but before I left for work I turned on one UTH, made sure the dimmer was close to the middle so it couldn't overheat. Now I feel like that was a terrible mistake and I might be cooking my poor snake. This is the small size 10-20 Gallon Zoo Med UTH. I don't know how it could get too hot, especially with my dimmer down close to the middle, but I'm still worried.

I have ordered two herpstat proportional thermostats from beanfarm, another $350.oo... waiting for them to arrive. When they do I plan on hooking one up to my hot side UTH and setting it to 90, and hooking the other up to my cool side UTH and setting it to 80.

However, will this affect my ambient temps on my cool side? Will I have to run another heat lamp on my cool side (as well as my 75w infared on my hot side) That seems like it will wreak havoc on my humidity- which is my OTHER issue- Humidity was fine at first, new substrate, lots of moisture, and my 75w bulb. After I switched to the 100w, the humidity disappeared. I insulated the back and sides with black foam core and put a towel on the top of the screen. I read that a towel doesn't keep humidity in so I put foil on top, shiny side down, but I'm not really sure how to attach it- should I be taping it on, or does just placing it on top help?

I bought Fluker's Moss (is this spaghnum moss?) and dampened it and put it in the cool hide. I dampened another piece and put it in the middle of the tank. I mist whenever I can, this always bumps the humidity up for like 10 mins, then it's back down to 37ish. I bought a room humidifier from Canadian Tire for 50$... that releases warm humid air, it made my whole room humid but didn't affect humidity in the tank! My snake is about to shed because his belly is turning slightly pink, and with all the fuss over the temperature I feel like he deserves a good shed. I am so worried about him and what the sliding temperatures and low humidity are doing to him. He always sits in his hot hide and never even visits the cool side of the tank. He recently has been curling up behind his hide under a plastic plant pressed against the walls of the tank, which terrifies me that the UTH will get too hot and heat up the glass and burn him.

Can you tell I'm worried! Ha.. sorry to write so much. I have read many of your posts and would really appreciate your advice. I know giving up the tank and getting a plastic tub is something I could do -but I really like my tank and I just bought it and it wasn't cheap... so if I could salvage the tank it would be great. Will Malcolm (my snake) be ok?

First off, wow that is one long post. im just gonna list some stuff off cuz its easier and faster.

>Get rid of the bark, it can have wood mites and is toxic to the snakes if ingested. plus its crap for substrate. I would suggest aspen or paper towels, they will hold humidity longer and are safer for the snake, and are easier to clean up.

>As for the UTH, the packaging on the ZooMed ones specify on the packaging what size tank they reccomend it be used with. even though you may not see a temp increase if you can feel it on the glass it is working. what i do is either set it near or under the hot side hide and a 75w bulb over the top and my temps are fine. you also should get a damp towel and cover 3/4 tank lid to help keep the heat and humidity in.

>also those dimmers are crap and a total waste of money, that is why most get thermostats asap.

>also im not quite sure where you have your probes, if you have them under the substrate you need to move them, what is the actual tank temp not the floor temp?

>from my experience with my first bp, i hade a 20gal zoomed UTH with a 75watt lamp, aspen, 2 hides, and a large water bowl and never had any problems with temps or humidity. and when a shed is about to happen i just throw in some wet moss into a hide.

Thanks.. sorry again for the long post.

Thanks for the reply... It's v. frustrating that I have a similar setup (ie. 20L tank, ZooMed 20Gal heat pad, 75w bulb) and yet my temps and humidity are way off. I have two hides, and a medium water bowl.. I will try a longer one.

I am going to swap out my bark mulch for newpaper/papertowel and potentially aspen.. I just feel like my snake has gone through so much in the past week that re-doing his environment can wait a day or two.

thanks again... you are helping!

Oh -
My thermometer probes are currently under the substrate to measure the temp of the glass... is that wrong?

Nope, that's just where they should be. :)

And a combo of Newsprint paper and aspen is what I use, and it's great. Helps make cleanup a lot easier as well.

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Originally Posted by Katstjames

Thanks.. sorry again for the long post.

Thanks for the reply... It's v. frustrating that I have a similar setup (ie. 20L tank, ZooMed 20Gal heat pad, 75w bulb) and yet my temps and humidity are way off. I have two hides, and a medium water bowl.. I will try a longer one.

I am going to swap out my bark mulch for newpaper/papertowel and potentially aspen.. I just feel like my snake has gone through so much in the past week that re-doing his environment can wait a day or two.

thanks again... you are helping!

Oh -
My thermometer probes are currently under the substrate to measure the temp of the glass... is that wrong?

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The #1 thing you can do to try and keep humidity in a tank is cover most of the lid somehow. Either aluminum foil or plexiglass will work. Lamps are really not needed (BPs are nocturnal and having a heat lamp on them stresses them out more than anything) and if you're running a UTH as well as the lamp it's probably going to be overkill. Glad to hear you got a thermostat though! 2 thermostats on a 20L is not really necessary but it can't really hurt anything. If I may make one suggestion, the best thing I found for keeping the hot side temp as well as the cool side temps up when I had my BP in a tank was a Radiant Heat Panel. RBI sells them and they work amazingly well plus they don't zap humidity.

Good luck and if all else fails for humidity you might consider a plastic tub. They're not exactly pretty but they're perfect for controlling temperatures and humidity plus they're cheaper so as your snake grows you can just upgrade the tub.

Quote:

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My thermometer probes are currently under the substrate to measure the temp of the glass... is that wrong?

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I know this got an affirmation but I would think you'd want to measure the temp where the snake sits, especially if you're using bark. I use 2-3 inches of aspen and the UTH-created temp is much warmer beneath it. I bury the cords but keep the probes on or near the top.

Nope! ;) Measure the temp on the glass. Some balls burrow into the substrate and if the glass is too hot they can be burned!!

To the OP: Great job for hanging in there and trying a million things to get it right!! The Herpstat will help immeasurably. You might also try wrapping your tank with foam board or cork or rigid pink insulation to assist with keeping temps where they ought to be by decreasing heat loss through the glass.

Keep up the effort and let us know how things are going :)