Am I cruel for doing this???

I put two of my males - Gambit and Khaoz together on the floor to see them "battle". I've never seen this type of BP behavior, and with my latest little "photo fiasco" of them, pooping on me....I thought I might just see what they'd do if I put them together.....It became clear after even a few minutes that one clearly was the "winner". It was a fascinating thing to see! But now that I saw it, I'll likely not do it again, because even though Gambit was the winner, he was nervous and agitated for the rest of the day.

Yes. That's cruel. It's no different than putting two dogs into a pit to fight.

really? pits destroy each other, snakes don't

no, I don't think it's cruel. Some breeders do it to induce breeding behavior.

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

I put two of my males - Gambit and Khaoz together on the floor to see them "battle". I've never seen this type of BP behavior, and with my latest little "photo fiasco" of them, pooping on me....I thought I might just see what they'd do if I put them together.....It became clear after even a few minutes that one clearly was the "winner". It was a fascinating thing to see! But now that I saw it, I'll likely not do it again, because even though Gambit was the winner, he was nervous and agitated for the rest of the day.

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Lets put it this way, if I told you what i thought of you for doing this I would get kicked out.........:colbert:

I don't think it's cruel per se but I def wouldn't condone it. I can't imagine it doing any good for the owner or the snakes. I don't think it'd do any real harm in the long run but, as you noticed, it would be quite stressful!

How is that cruel? I mean it's probably not a good thing for the snakes, I'm sure it does stress them out some but I don't see it being cruel or anything like a freakin dog fight!

Not sure I would call it cruel. But I would call it thoughtless.

Males are put together for combat to induce breeding. That is instrumentive and has a goal. No, the animals are not going to be at risk as a result (as least not that I know of).

A bit of pushing and shoving not such a big deal. I do that everyday on the metro. I poster, I stand my ground, I defend my space. Big deal.

You did it just to see... I would call that a bit reckless IMHO.

As for the comparison to pit fighting. That sort of parallel lacks merit and is just a bit too hysterical.

Bruce

I don't see how this is "cruel" in any way. Unless there's something about ball-python combat that I'm not aware of. It's not like dogs fighting and tearing each other apart. The snakes don't injure each other, so far as I know. If they do, then please explain and I'll alter my opinion.

I think folks are making a bit of an assumption that such combat is "stressful" in a detrimental way for the snakes. How do you know the snake was "stressed" after the fight? Maybe it was jazzed up...lookin' for a lady..."feeling good" about having done something it would do in nature but rarely gets to do in captivity.

While I completely understand and encourage creating as stress-free an environment as possible because of the circumstances of captivity....I also don't feel that occassional moments of "stress" are bad for the animals....in fact, I think it would be good for them. Constant stress of having to live with another male that wants to battle....BAD...without a doubt. But having a chance to interact and "battle" on rare occasions....I just can't see that as a bad thing, so long as there is no significant risk of injuries. How do we know such moments, carefully dolled out and supervised, are not a beneficial environmental enhancement? :confuzd:

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Originally Posted by JLC

I don't see how this is "cruel" in any way. Unless there's something about ball-python combat that I'm not aware of. It's not like dogs fighting and tearing each other apart. The snakes don't injure each other, so far as I know. If they do, then please explain and I'll alter my opinion.

I think folks are making a bit of an assumption that such combat is "stressful" in a detrimental way for the snakes. How do you know the snake was "stressed" after the fight? Maybe it was jazzed up...lookin' for a lady..."feeling good" about having done something it would do in nature but rarely gets to do in captivity.

While I completely understand and encourage creating as stress-free an environment as possible because of the circumstances of captivity....I also don't feel that occassional moments of "stress" are bad for the animals....in fact, I think it would be good for them. Constant stress of having to live with another male that wants to battle....BAD...without a doubt. But having a chance to interact and "battle" on rare occasions....I just can't see that as a bad thing, so long as there is no significant risk of injuries. How do we know such moments, carefully dolled out and supervised, are not a beneficial environmental enhancement? :confuzd:

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Agreed.

I'd call it cruel, because you did it just to enjoy the spectacle. Sparring males to induce breeding behavior has a purpose, while just doing it to watch does not.
I don't think it's harmed the snakes though. A bit of sparring, then seperating them is not in any way comparable to the damage done in a pit dog fight. However, I think the comparison might be made for enjoying the pit fighting and enjoying two snakes fighting. What's enjoyable about two animals battling each other?
All in all, probably no harm done, but not something I would condone at all.
All above is just my opinion, only my opinion, based only on my own ideals and limited brain cell power. Some settling may have occured in transit, however contents should be measured by weight, not by volumn.