Jungle pastels....

I haven't seen too many lately. Are they still pretty popular? And how much are they currently going for? I haven't really seen any at shows.

Jungle Pastel is just the 'long' name for "Pastel". Males average $100 for a 'lower' quality one and females are about $250-$350. Higher quality ones (ones that hold their yellow tint well) tend to cost more for obvious reasons.

Whichever name you use it does seem like there aren't as many pastels for sale this year as you might expect. Suppose this could be a case where last year's low prices caused people to pick other males to breed and not pair their pastel males? Seems like you see more mojave and pinstripe this year.

I think another contribution is that a lot of breeders are holding back almost all of their pastel girls to raise up as breeders replacing the normal girls. You get a better quality clutch with pastel being the siblings instead of normals. Have you noticed the increase in breedable sized normal girls at shows lately? Once most breeders make this transition complete you will see an increase in pastels at shows, probally at lower prices. You will also see a huge increase in pastels het for something.

Wait a minute. I thought that "jungle" was a pattern. Like a swirly type looking pattern. And a "pastel jungle" was just a pastel with that wicked pattern. I thought that maybe you didn't see the Jungles much anymore is because that wicked pattern didn't prove out to be genetic. Am I incorrect?

Yes, kinda. Jungle, according to the BP gurus, is a pattern difference. There are normals that are concidered jungles because of their pattern. The BP world in general just tag that name along with the pastel. Kinda like a lot of people refere to cinnamons as cinnamon pastels. They are not pastels, they are cinnys. I took the question above as what has happened to the pastels since jungle is often added to the pastel. You are also right about the jungles not being proven. It is a random happening that some thinks may be caused by undetermined egg stress.

I was mostly right then. "jungle" really has to do with pattern. Can you still find a "jungle" pastel though for 100 bucks? I may have to hunt for one, cause I fell in love with one 10 years ago......when they were $3000 :O

I think what people used to consider jungles are now just labeled high quality. Like stated above $250 and up for females and $150 and up for high quality males. Lower quality males and females go for $75 - $200.

I also think that people are selectively breeding against the crazy jungle patterns. Not everyone, and I bet half of the people doing it don't realize they are. But so many people prefer a reduced pattern in normals and in many other morphs. So then people carefully pick out good looking normal females (which by their definition may mean reduced pattern), and breed them to their pastel males, and end up with reduced pattern pastels.

One of the early named morphs (the original Ball Python guide) was called "Classic Jungle". It was thought that ball pythons from a jungle range had this bright high contrast coloration (lots of yellow and orange against really dark black) and intricate pattern. As far as I know no one has been able to reliably reproduce these. From time to time I hear of some where the pattern is supposed to reproduce so maybe they are out there recently and just not popular yet.

I think the majority of these are caused by egg stress. Here is one I hatched:

http://snakemorphs.home.comcast.net/...th3Pattern.JPG

He was a small hatchling who didn't absorb all of his yolk.

I think some may have shortened "classic jungle" to just "jungle" but in either case I don't think it's typically genetic.

When what we now call just "pastel" came along it was noted that the color and pattern where somewhat similar to the "classic jungle" so the original name was "pastel jungle". This has proven genetic but you don't always get the really intricate pattern part. Here is my pastel that does show some of the pattern intricacy that probably lead the original name including "jungle":

http://homevtour.home.comcast.net/~h...GMVT01_med.jpg

After pastel jungle aka pastel was proven Greg Graziani was working with a new male he made a case for being genetic based on similarities to pastel jungle. I suppose due to these similarities he named that morph "cinnamon pastel". It ended up proving to be genetic but even though the combo with pastel jungle was stunning (the pewter) we now know the two mutations are unrelated. Both names have now been shorted, pastel jungle to just pastel and cinnamon pastel to just cinnamon.

So, it's a little confusing but maybe the history helps some.