Market crashers

Why is it that everything is going up in price,gas,food,ect.,while at the same time I see people lowering the price on thier animals? It makes no sense to me.:confused:
I guess its just supply and demand. More small breeders(like me) flooding the market with pastels,spiders pins,ect. I understand that. But even recessive's have come down quite a bit in the last year.

Because when you're in a "hobby" market that has a lot of small breeders that CAN and DO sometimes carry a bit of weight in market pricing... the hobby seems to be the first thing that goes when the economy is taking a crap and people need that money to spend on necessary living expenses.

But I agree, and Larry and BT said it best, we're paying more to care for these animals, should they not be increasing in value?

As far as the recessive market, we're talking about morphs that have been out there for a handful of years now, plenty of time to spread them around...they're bound to drop also as they come into that more affordable range.

I really do think morphs like albinos will hit a plateau in price. Between 07 and 08 I noticed that albinos didn't drop all to drastically.

Dave I wouldn't blame it on the small breeders particularily. There's been some big players that played hell with the BP market in the last year or so.

I figure it this way, why mess up a market you yourself want to be part of just to make a fast buck. It's not like me holding a snake until I get what I consider an appropriate price for it is devaluing that snake. Every day it's here it's eating, growing, representing the quality of it's genetics and becoming I figure even more interesting for a buyer to purchase as it matures. So I spend some cash on feeding and housing it while I wait for the right buyer. I'd rather do that then screw up a market, and my friends in it, just to quickly line my own pockets.

Big time or small time breeders - I don't think it matters really. For me and my family what matters is the value we personally place on these snakes and the value of our time, care and years of planning to produce a hatchling. If a person sees them as only scaley dollar signs, then I think some very poor long term decisions get made. You have to know your bottom line, that's only smart business sense but for me anyways, that bottom line cannot be the driving force in why we ever decided to breed or sell a snake in the first place.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Dave I wouldn't blame it on the small breeders particularily. There's been some big players that played hell with the BP market in the last year or so.

I figure it this way, why mess up a market you yourself want to be part of just to make a fast buck. It's not like me holding a snake until I get what I consider an appropriate price for it is devaluing that snake. Every day it's here it's eating, growing, representing the quality of it's genetics and becoming I figure even more interesting for a buyer to purchase as it matures. So I spend some cash on feeding and housing it while I wait for the right buyer. I'd rather do that then screw up a market, and my friends in it, just to quickly line my own pockets.

Big time or small time breeders - I don't think it matters really. For me and my family what matters is the value we personally place on these snakes and the value of our time, care and years of planning to produce a hatchling. If a person sees them as only scaley dollar signs, then I think some very poor long term decisions get made. You have to know your bottom line, that's only smart business sense but for me anyways, that bottom line cannot be the driving force in why we ever decided to breed or sell a snake in the first place.

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Well said. I agree 100%. I have not sold any snakes. I would like to keep them all.:D. However,it would be nice to at least make enough to pay for the rat food.;)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Dave I wouldn't blame it on the small breeders particularily. There's been some big players that played hell with the BP market in the last year or so.

I figure it this way, why mess up a market you yourself want to be part of just to make a fast buck. It's not like me holding a snake until I get what I consider an appropriate price for it is devaluing that snake. Every day it's here it's eating, growing, representing the quality of it's genetics and becoming I figure even more interesting for a buyer to purchase as it matures. So I spend some cash on feeding and housing it while I wait for the right buyer. I'd rather do that then screw up a market, and my friends in it, just to quickly line my own pockets.

Big time or small time breeders - I don't think it matters really. For me and my family what matters is the value we personally place on these snakes and the value of our time, care and years of planning to produce a hatchling. If a person sees them as only scaley dollar signs, then I think some very poor long term decisions get made. You have to know your bottom line, that's only smart business sense but for me anyways, that bottom line cannot be the driving force in why we ever decided to breed or sell a snake in the first place.

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I totally agree. I mean think about it, when those eggs start hatching do you think of the money that your getting? NO! Your thinking about how beautiful those babies that you worked SO hard for are, and how amazing the moment is.

I don't want to breed in the future for money. Money is of course a nice + after all your hard work, but the experience is worth millions to me. I love these animals, not because I want to make some money, but because I want to see if I can assist in creation of new beautiful creatures that thrive.

But just because money isn't that important to me doesn't mean I'll lower the prices insanely! I will watch the market, and attempt to contribute my amount to stabilization.

I think its pretty simple... there are many breeders out there that dont want to hold back 10 snakes because they cant sell em... easy fix... drop the price to where people will bite at em and away we go... This goes hand in hand with the "selective breeding" post... Many of the snakes that are way underpriced are at the bottom of the quality scale.

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Originally Posted by Dave763

Why is it that everything is going up in price,gas,food,ect.,while at the same time I see people lowering the price on thier animals? It makes no sense to me.:confused:

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there are several reasons, but this is a hobby and this is just fun money for a lot of people. as people have less disposable income, breeders will be forced to drop prices in my opinion. most people i know that are into snakes are not wealthy by any means... me included. :O

on the flip side, the actual market aspect of this whole hobby does have a bubble and it will pop, just like the housing market - that i can guarantee you. especially when most people that pay big bucks for snakes have intentions of breeding, rather than just collecting. :gj:

I don't breed, but here's my opinion for the 1/2 cent it is worth...

As much as we love snakes fact of the matter is that they are pretty close to the very bottom of importance and things we need to have. Innumerable things come before them which means that I have a great number of other stuff to spend money on before I will buy snakes. For instance gas, food, health insurance, rent/mortgage, household bills, taking care of the current animals I have. Everything else seems to keep going up in price (especially gas). Snakes just get the short end of the stick out of necessity.

Now seems like a good time for those who are interested in breeding in the future to get a few nicer morphs at lower prices because eventually the market will pick backup and the prices on snakes will rise again.

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Originally Posted by jknudson

Because when you're in a "hobby" market that has a lot of small breeders that CAN and DO sometimes carry a bit of weight in market pricing... the hobby seems to be the first thing that goes when the economy is taking a crap and people need that money to spend on necessary living expenses.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by jknudson

But I agree, and Larry and BT said it best, we're paying more to care for these animals, should they not be increasing in value?

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This sounds good at first, but maybe Larry and BT forgot their economics - Ball pythons aren't a commodity. They are "normal" goods. As people make more money, they demand more of them. As people make less money, they demand less of them. Combine that with the increased supply, and you've got a significant price drop.

I'd also argue that with the cost of energy, food, etc, going up, people have less money to put into housing, feeding, and breeding the animals, so the whole "breeder's value" in some of the animals could be going down as well.

Some great food for thought here. I'm not a breeder but I have a considerable amount of money (for me) tied up in snakes. I accept that I may never make a dime from breeding BP's, and in fact, they will continue to cost me much more money each year to keep them warm and fed. If I can recover just a little of my costs I would be very happy. But the bottom line for me is that when the US dollar finally tanks, at least I will have some cool snakes to play with.