Why is it wild BP's lay more eggs?

I have read in a few places that people got a w/c gravid female and she laid almost a dozen eggs, OR more.
So why is it a CB female lays 4-7 eggs?

Carol
:confused:

I have no idea, however, I would guess that in spite of all our hard work to replicate their natural environment, we haven't quite gotten it exactly right yet.

they are bigger snakes?

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Originally Posted by Jenn

I have no idea, however, I would guess that in spite of all our hard work to replicate their natural environment, we haven't quite gotten it exactly right yet.

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True it could have several factors the type off prey item the amount of prey offered, the nutritional value of the prey offered, Amount of rain, or lack their of, elevation above sea level, hell it could be something in the water.

In dog breeding, breeders use the inbreeding coefficient to determine whether or not breedings are too close. When we inbreed or 'linebreed', eventually the puppies are physically weaker, smaller, less vigorous. They don't have as strong of a reflex to nurse, they aren't as fast, etc. So you use inbreeding coefficients to avoid the super tight breeding. Another symptom of closely bred populations is decreasing litter sizes.

In basenjis, we can go to africa and bring back native dogs to increase the genetic diversity of the breed. The native dogs are unfailingly more instinctive and hearty babies, hearty nursers, etc. The mother's have stronger mothering instincts than tight linebred mothers. The native dogs also produce giant litters. American stock basenjis produce an average litter of four or five. When native dogs are bred in or used exclusively as native stock the litters are averaging much bigger-- 8, 9, even 10 puppies.

I would assume that snakes have similar genetic issues. Inbreeding anything too closely for too long will decrease the heartiness of the babies and decrease litter sizes, etc, etc, etc. Good reason to use wild snakes in the gene pool!

Except, most of our morphs we see being produced are codominant, needing very little inbreeding. One male codom can breed as many as 6 unrelated females.

It's my opinion that our captive snakes are fat and weaker than wild snakes. Makes sense don't it? We stuff them to get them up to weight, and they also don't have the range or have to search for food, leaving more fat deposits around the organs instead of lean tough muscle. ;)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

It's my opinion that our captive snakes are fat and weaker than wild snakes. Makes sense don't it? We stuff them to get them up to weight, and they also don't have the range or have to search for food, leaving more fat deposits around the organs instead of lean tough muscle. ;)

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While this was only my first year breeding bps, with the corn snakes, I try to "exercise the females" especially during breeding season. I try to have each one out 2-3x's a week for 15-20 min. Very easy to do, I just get one out, watch TV then put her away during a commercial break, and get out another one.

Since doing this, I've noticed that most of my first time breeders have been laying larger clutches. Now because its their first year I can't really compare it, but I used to get 8-12 eggs on average from first year breeders, and now I'm getting 16-20 from them. It may just be a coincidence and I've gotten lucky, but I think that having them lean and fit is playing a role.

Next year when I'll be breeding more bps, I'm going to work them into an exercise regimen as well.

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

I have read in a few places that people got a w/c gravid female and she laid almost a dozen eggs, OR more.
So why is it a CB female lays 4-7 eggs?

Carol
:confused:

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Carol, without a proper long term study I don't think we can assume that W/C's generally lay larger clutches. Just because a few do doesn't mean that all do or that a captive bred and born female, of an appropriate size, isn't just as capable of dropping a large, viable clutch.

Remember too, most people will brag on the internet about their successes with these W/C gravid females but they rarely tell you about the flipside. I have a "flipside" female BP here. A W/C imported while gravid female that dropped her eggs then never ate. She went through two owners before coming into our hands and she's been work to bring her back. That work is with absolutely no guarantee that this snake will ever breed in captivity.

Don't get me wrong, Danu is worth every single moment spent on her rehabiliation but this whole idea of grabbing up gravid imports thinking you'll get huge clutches and an easy route to a breeding female always worries me.

maybe cos no one can actually determine how old a wc female is.

like snakes tend to lay larger clutches on their 5th year compared to their 2nd year. that's what the barkers said in their book.

maybe that wc is around 20 yrs old,who knows?

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Originally Posted by munding

maybe cos no one can actually determine how old a wc female is.

like snakes tend to lay larger clutches on their 5th year compared to their 2nd year. that's what the barkers said in their book.

maybe that wc is around 20 yrs old,who knows?

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In my opinion, Raymond hit the nail on the head. Alot of the 4-7 egg clutches you see from CB or Farmed females, are from these females at 2-4 years of age. Many of these WC females that are 3000 plus grams are probably at least 8 years old, and upwards, possibly approaching 20 years old. They are stronger animals, that have probably had numerous years off, and have more follicles when they start breeding. Therefore leading to larger clutches of eggs.