Anyone interested in a club?

I'm just throwing ideas out here, and having been met with a very cold shoulder by the rat community, would anyone want to make our own little club or whatever for us rat breeders with herps.

I've seen some pretty sick rats being raised as feeders, and non of them carry any good genetics to speak of, so if you wanted to start breeding lines that will last for generations, where are you supposed to get them? You may have a lucky break and buy some from a Mom and Pop store that are clean, but you have no idea about the history of that rat, or what to expect from it.

I know not many breeders for feeders keep track of that stuff, but I want rats that aren't going to give out after a year and have some knowledge of their background.

My main goal is to again, breed animals that are healthy, and can stay healthy for generations. To breed out and away from high risk colors or rats. This is where my main interest in genetics lies. I would love to breed rats that are just pets for myself, which is mainly what my breeders are. I love those animals, and they are very close to us, and I want also the friendliest rats that i can get.

As for breeding for fancy rats as a whole, I would leave that to other more experienced breeders. I don't even think I could get a foot in the door if I wanted because no one would sell to me because of the herps.

I ask you a question, if every society and club is toward progress of breeding healthy animals, and ridding disease from rats, would you also want those of us that breed for both purposes to achieve the same? Yes we may feed them as well, but most herp breeders also view their Breeders as pets. And when they do sell or give those rats from their lines, would you then care if the animal was sickly from inbreeding? Or healthy from selective breeding, because the breeder was knowledgeable and only bred those that met good standards?

In trying to progress positively as a whole in the rat hobby, I'm trying to get in and also breed my rats to the same standards.

Does this make sense, or is it sorta not even worth it at all??? Let me know what you think.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I'm just throwing ideas out here, and having been met with a very cold shoulder by the rat community, would anyone want to make our own little club or whatever for us rat breeders with herps.

I've seen some pretty sick rats being raised as feeders, and non of them carry any good genetics to speak of, so if you wanted to start breeding lines that will last for generations, where are you supposed to get them? You may have a lucky break and buy some from a Mom and Pop store that are clean, but you have no idea about the history of that rat, or what to expect from it.

I know not many breeders for feeders keep track of that stuff, but I want rats that aren't going to give out after a year and have some knowledge of their background.

My main goal is to again, breed animals that are healthy, and can stay healthy for generations. To breed out and away from high risk colors or rats. This is where my main interest in genetics lies. I would love to breed rats that are just pets for myself, which is mainly what my breeders are. I love those animals, and they are very close to us, and I want also the friendliest rats that i can get.

As for breeding for fancy rats as a whole, I would leave that to other more experienced breeders. I don't even think I could get a foot in the door if I wanted because no one would sell to me because of the herps.

I ask you a question, if every society and club is toward progress of breeding healthy animals, and ridding disease from rats, would you also want those of us that breed for both purposes to achieve the same? Yes we may feed them as well, but most herp breeders also view their Breeders as pets. And when they do sell or give those rats from their lines, would you then care if the animal was sickly from inbreeding? Or healthy from selective breeding, because the breeder was knowledgeable and only bred those that met good standards?

In trying to progress positively as a whole in the rat hobby, I'm trying to get in and also breed my rats to the same standards.

Does this make sense, or is it sorta not even worth it at all??? Let me know what you think.

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I think you might hit Joanna up shes our Rat queen :D

That sounds like a good idea, and what the fancy rat community has been trying to do for decades. We're trying to better the species by selective breeding, not ruin it and breed them just because they are pretty(same with the mice too-the pretties are often the more neurotic ones). Pretty doesn't necessarily mean healthy.

I think people who breed for feeders need to look at what is going into their snakes. Crappy lines produce crappy prey items, and those crappy prey items are going to eventually be detrimental to your snakes. Some people may not even be aware of megacolon and other health problems, such as cancer, in their lines because the offspring are not allowed to grow up to show these undesireable traits. What happens usually is that these animals are then sold or given to another breeder, and these bad traits start popping out. Adult breeder animals can no longer be used, entire litters have to be euthanized for health issues, etc.

Also, I do wonder why people who breed rats as feeders for their snakes, why they choose the pretty rats who then, in turn, breed poorly. Why not choose the pink eyed white rats who are excellent mothers and give very large litters? The snakes don't care what color those prey items are, and it's just going to be snake poop anyway. I know they may be more pleasing to look at, but when production suffers because you want to keep the pretty american blue blazed rat as a breeder? Doesn't get anyone very far and it isn't improving the species as a whole.

Ok.. /off soap box

Had to vent for a second ;) I think this is a very good topic you brought up.

I'm really all for this. I know personally how hard it is to find a good breeder rat when you A. know nothing about rats B. Cant buy any from a show breeder or rescue C. Don't know what to look for.

Being brand new in breeding myself, I've been all around google and yahoo trying to find all I can about genetics and coat color markings. If I do find a detailed page, they only have half the story, so all my information is coming from several different sites. All of whom don't condone rats as feeders. This is something I would like to work on and compilate for newbies or even seasoned rat owners.

I'm really about making a one place for educating people on simple genetics, what to look for when buying, and maybe a listing of quality producing breeders that will sell to you because you either own snakes or want to breed your own rats for feeders. People that aren't so worried about the pretty ones, but more in the longevity and quality of life in these animals.

I'm somewhere at the mid-point of a lot of this fancy vs plain, feeder breeder vs show breeder rat thing I think. While I agree that for pure production likely as Becky stated, the pink eyed whites are a good bet. I also breed for looks as well as production. Production for the snakes, looks, well...just to please myself I suppose.

You have to find that balance though and be pretty strict on culling or removing from the breeding group adults that aren't healthy or producing healthy offspring. There's just no point to producing sickly, small litters just because they are "cute". Doesn't make sense for either type of breeder to do so. I keep a pretty tight view on whose breeding with who around here. I like to know which pairings produce what I'm looking for....big, healthy litters delivered easily by the female rat, that grow into top feeders. With the numbers I'm working with that isn't a huge strain on my brain LOL. If I was breeding in the 1,000's of offspring...well that's another whole ball of wax.

It's funny though, so much is said about "pet store rats" and yet my two top and most consistent breeders, who are both over 2 now and still going strong (though of course no longer being used as breeders) were from a pet store. Granted this was a small, private shop that bred all their own rats but still it is quite possible to get a decent rat from a store...just be extremely picky about the store, the rat and what rat you breed it to. Statistically though over the long haul I saw a lot more illnesses, etc. back when we got a most of our breeders direct from the stores. Once we started raising our own next gen breeders that just really dropped right off. To keep our genetic pool "deep" though I carry a quite large number of unrelated/not closely related males for a colony of our size.

Personally whatever you're breeding for (breeder, feeder, a certain "look), heck whatever creature you're breeding, you just need to have a bit of common sense about it really. Farmers have known and done this stuff for years. We just get a bit bent out of shape when anything "pet" is mentioned and then a whole bunch of silly lines get drawn.

The atmosphere your talking about is is near exactly how the asf rat forum is conducted. Its not all that active but slowly growing. Most people there now are breeding for food but more importantly for quality. Sometimes I feel like I work harder on my rodent colony than I do my snakes...it does take alot of work to maintain the highest level of quality. I also enjoy breeding rodents for colors and patterns even though anything that is of interest to me will not likely ever leave my collection or be shown as a show animal. Its sad that some can't understand that even though rodents are used for reptile consumption that they are cared for with just as much hard work if not more than those who keep them as pets.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

The snakes don't care what color those prey items are,

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Ha. I do have a few snakes that are color picky. It is a rarity, but I have heard of it before from other people, but did not believe it until I saw it first hand. My Pied female will not eat a rat unless it is solid white. I have a Normal female that is 2 1/2 years old, and weighs 700 grams, because it took me a while to figure out that she won't eat anything that has white on it. Just my two cents, and is far from the norm, but it does happen.

LOL Tim I always hesitate to mention a color preference too but we have one snake that seems to be that way. Saoirse, one of our WC adult females, will absolutely refuse to strike at any rat other than a dark self colored rat or a very low white berkie type (basically a dark colored rat really). Anytime we've offered her anything else other than an overall dark colored rat, we get a refusal. Offer her the "right" color, she nails them in seconds. Very odd!

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

The atmosphere your talking about is is near exactly how the asf rat forum is conducted. Its not all that active but slowly growing. Most people there now are breeding for food but more importantly for quality. Sometimes I feel like I work harder on my rodent colony than I do my snakes...it does take alot of work to maintain the highest level of quality. I also enjoy breeding rodents for colors and patterns even though anything that is of interest to me will not likely ever leave my collection or be shown as a show animal. Its sad that some can't understand that even though rodents are used for reptile consumption that they are cared for with just as much hard work if not more than those who keep them as pets.

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I guess thats what i'm going for. Chris [bf] really works with the snakes more often than me [I get to clean their mess in the mornings >.<] and I deal with the rats. I spend A LOT of time with the rats. They do take a lot more effort and attention than the snakes, but, I care alot about them. I make the big decisions, and i try to pair them up with the best combination health and color wise. I guess I don't know if anyone was really that interested in combining efforts, but it was an idea.

If you think it would help I could add a section for domestic rats on my asf rat site. Otherwise if you'd like to start your own forum/site I have a very affordable package for hosting ;)