Collecting wild animals...

With what seems to be like a peak time of the year where folks are seeing wild herps I thought it would be interesting to see how people felt about the idea or action of taking an animal from the wild and keeping it as a captive.

This topic is not for pushing what is necessarily "right or "wrong" or to pick out individuals who may have done this. Rather discuss your point of view or where you stand on the issue.

I could check all the boxes....everything is conditional however....much more specific than just a general answer...

I think its fine.....If the animal is being produced in captivity, there is really no need to take it from the wild; however, some animals are not readily available in captivity so if you are interested in keeping a native species and have no access to it other than to go into the wild and catch it....why not? However, before attempting to care for a wild animal, you should have the experience and knowledge to provide for the animal.

Only if the required legal basis are covered (license to collect native animals etc)....legal issues should ALWAY be covered for ANY animal a person buys. Anyone that owns or sells an animal in violation of the law is WRONG and should be locked away.

I don't think native herps should be taken for captivity....by ignorant keepers. It takes some skill to care for a wild caught reptile; however, the majority of 'keepers' that take animals from the wild have no skill what so ever. The animals we keep currently were at one time taken from the wild, but it was only those skilled in the care of reptiles that were able to establish them.

I may or may not keep a native herp captive if found.....It depends on the animal. I have the necessary licenses for my state to take non-protected reptiles from the wild. I also feel that I have the knowledge to care for the animals if I wish to do so. If I wanted to keep a local species and could find no one that breeds the animal, I would take a locality specific pair from the wild and breed them. As a reptile keeper, I would feel that it is my responsibility to make this animal available as captive born and bred so the next person that comes along will have a choice before taking another animal out of the wild.

I think its fine as long as you are not selling them to others. I have kept lots of reptiles and amphibians that I caught growing up, its part of what got me loving herps. My friends and I spent countless hours catching whatever we could find, we setup great habitats for them and when we got tired of them we just let them go. To me it will be a sad day when you cant catch and keep any wild herps, those are great memories of being a kid that i hope my kids can have as well.

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Originally Posted by djansen

....when we got tired of them we just let them go.

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This is not a good practice.

Once an animal is removed from the wild, the chances for survival are not as great and not to mention the countless other issues that could arise. I would recommend that once you take an animal from the wild....you make sure it remains in captivity the rest of it's life.

I've never really kept a wild herp really before. Though growing up, my mother, father and I use to take in hurt animals and rehabilitate them. We raised a lot of baby birds that had fallen out of their nest. We also took in a lot of box turtles that had been hit, or found crossing the road, or just in the wrong place for a box turtle to be. Once the turtles were back to health or were in good enough health we released them or moved them to a place where they wouldn't been seeing any roads or cars any time soon. As for the birds, we did let them all go once they were eating on their own and flying.

I think if the animal species isn't doing to well in the wild then yes it's fine to take them and try to help out their numbers. If you find a wild herp and just want it because you either think it's cool or because you caught it then I'm against that. If you find a hurt herp and want to help it out and help it back to health then I'm all about that. If you need to care of that hurt wild herp for the rest of it's life then I don't see a problem with doing that either if you are able to provide that animal the correct husbandry and environment in your home.

I don't see why people NEED TO have wild corns, kings, frogs, lizards, etc specially when you can get just about any kind of herp or morph at a local reptile show. Why take something out of the wild when you really don't need to do so? Doesn't make to sense to me when people do those kind of things.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

This is not a good practice.

Once an animal is removed from the wild, the chances for survival are not as great and not to mention the countless other issues that could arise. I would recommend that once you take an animal from the wild....you make sure it remains in captivity the rest of it's life.

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while i agree partly to what you are saying, i really doubt if i catch a garter snake or tree frog near my house, keep it for a while and let it go its going to forget how to live and eat. Reptiles cant be tamed like a dog or cat and forget how to survive, its instinct. why do you think most baby sakes are so nippy when they are born? even captive hatched, they are born like that.

I did it as a child (garter snakes, toads, frogs etc..), I always loved herps. But now with such a large collection of CB animals I would be very concerned of passing some kind of illness that the CB animals would not be able to handle. Of course endangered species should always be left alone so they can repopulate. After all , all the animals we collect came from the wild. Everything must be done responsibly, which isn't always the case. Here in the deserts of California we have desert tortises and it is illegal to take them from the wild because once they have been removed(even for short periods) thet will never survive in the wild again. Apparently they completely loose there natural navigation skills and forget where their dens and food/water sources are and the release all there water reserves and would die in the dry desert heat/sun. They end up becoming recuse animals and must live under human care for the rest of their LONG lives. I don't know about other species but it's something to think about when releasing animals back into the wild.

I have a big soft spot for an injured animal of any type that has a chance for survival but needs a little TLC... However, only would I bring a wile animal into the home for rehabilitation purposes. We've had big issues in our area with there not being enough wildlife rescue programs and have had to do this(with success I may add :) ). They are severly overburdened in our area and they only take in a few species, and only if they are positive that the animal has 100% survival rates, otherwise they put them down.

As a kid though, I was always trying to bring home snakes, newts, frogs - anything I could find really!

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Originally Posted by djansen

while i agree partly to what you are saying, i really doubt if i catch a garter snake or tree frog near my house, keep it for a while and let it go its going to forget how to live and eat. Reptiles cant be tamed like a dog or cat and forget how to survive, its instinct. why do you think most baby sakes are so nippy when they are born? even captive hatched, they are born like that.

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I never said that reptiles will 'forget' their 'instinct'. They just have a lower chance for survival.

There are two types of wild animals: those that are established in their environment and those that are not established in their environment.

The animals that are not established in their environment are at a greater risk of dying than an established animal.

A captive 'wild' reptile is not established when you release it....therefore, it has a low chance of success...I am not saying that the animal can not establish itself in the wild again....I am just saying that it is not the easiest thing to do.

...but lets forget about wild caught animals for a second....

What is another reptile that is not established in it's environment? A newborn.

When it comes out of the egg all it has only pure instinct to go by....no established shelter, no established food source, no established routine and it are 'prey' to alot of animals.

What chances of success does a hatchling snake, lizard, or turtle have in the wild? 100%? 75%? 50%? or 10%?

I know that most of us realize how dangerous it is to be a young animal in the wild. Does all the danger come from the lack of size and learned behavior? or is it more of an 'establishment' issue? I wonder.

Now compare a wild hatchling to a released wild caught captive? Both have only instinct to go by.....both have no established shelter, food source, or routine. Both have preditors that will kill them given the chance.

Once you remove an established animal from its environment, it has to start all over again when reintroduced. Instinct is just a tool.....it does not provide food, shelter, and protection.

This is a great discussion. I enjoy the topic. Good thread Mr. Warren ;)

.....lets cover some of the 'other issues' that I mentioned in my first post as well...just fuel for thought?

When keeping a native animals in captivity, we have the chance of exposing them to illnesses and parasites from exotic reptiles in our collections. Once exposed then released, the animals could spread the exotic problems into native populations. What would this do to the wild populations?

What about natural locality issues? Reptiles have great variety in nature. A snake may look a little different in coloration than another of the same species just a 10 miles down the road. Sure they may not differ enough to be subdivided into a different species or subspecies, but the two are definately different. Natually the two animals would never cross each others path.....but a person catches one, keeps it as a captive, then releases it on the same stretch of roadway.....but in the region with the snakes with different coloration. What will the new genetics do to the wild population in that area if it were to breed? Mixing color 'morphs' in captivity happens all the time, but is providing the opportunity for it to happen in nature any different?