Spins and shakes in Spiders

In another thread I stated that ALL spider ball pythons demonstrated the spins and shakes trait, and that it was genetic and apparently neurological. I was asked whether I had ever seen a spider with this condition, even though I had already stated that I have one. I didn't mention that my son has a spider that we acquired at about the same time, that I have NOT seen this trait in. I was also asked whether I had personally checked ALL spiders for this condition. Obviously not. I have researched it, though, because I am very interested in spiders.

Now, I officially retracted my statement from the other thread because I felt there were more important issues to deal with in that thread than whether all spiders have this condition.

So, here it is -

Based on my research, and what I have perceived to be the general consensus of spider breeders, all spiders have the genetic "defect" that causes spins and head shakes, and some demonstrate it more than others.

I have even heard/read very reputable spider breeders state emphatically that anyone who breeds spiders and says that their spiders do not have this trait should be avoided. Please note that this is me repeating what I have heard, and not a personal attack on anyone in this forum.

Now, please feel free to flame me for all your worth.

Thanks,
Steve

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

I have even heard/read very reputable spider breeders state emphatically that anyone who breeds spiders and says that their spiders do not have this trait should be avoided. Please note that this is me repeating what I have heard, and not a personal attack on anyone in this forum.

Now, please feel free to flame me for all your worth.

Thanks,
Steve

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Steve, no flames here - just would like to know what breeders said that anyone who breeds spiders and said that spiders do not have this trait should be avoided?

I think the discusssion was that not ALL spiders spin. I plan to make my spider purchase from Adam, because I trust him and I'm very happy with my prior transactions with him.

very well said we have all made mistakes. Just see my screw up on the hoggie bite thread talk about sticking your foot in your mouth.. LOL. As you said very reputable breedesr have said that it is something to avoid. I wonder if its from excessive imbreeding?

My only problem with the statement was that you said ALL so many times....then moved on to MANY. Without documented cases from all spiders(or at least the majority), I really don't understand how comments like that can be made. Spinning can also occur in other ball pythons as well...not just spiders...did you come across that in your reading?

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

Now, please feel free to flame me for all your worth.

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Why do you keep mentioning getting flamed? Thats not how we roll in these parts....we are all here to learn ;)

Here are a few more thread about this.....

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I did a quick search of the site for "spider" and "spinning" and found these threads that might help ...

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=28437

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=24736

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=27328

-adam

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

very well said we have all made mistakes. Just see my screw up on the hoggie bite thread talk about sticking your foot in your mouth.. LOL. As you said very reputable breedesr have said that it is something to avoid. I wonder if its from excessive imbreeding?

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Thanks. Just want to clarify something, though. The breeder(s) I was referring to weren't saying that the TRAIT is something to avoid. In fact, they were stating that if you like spiders, buy one. The spinning/shakes does not seem to affect their ability to lead normal, healthy lives. They were saying that if a breeder states that HIS spiders don't have this trait, he should probably be avoided.

Steve

Like I stated in the other thread.
I have an aditional spider ball named Sam who exhibits NONE of the symptoms. Obviously he does not have it "just a little". I could take the "It is genetic and more common in the line of spider balls, and can crop up without warning". But not that all of them spin to some extant, because not only does Sam not, but several other spiders I have observed in person also do not.
Spinning in spiders is a hot topic, but I don't think anyone is going to flame you. Disagreeing is not flaming. I'd like to discuss the spinning. My plan was if Hepburn made it to adulthood, to locate a male spinner to breed her with FOR RESEARCH and let the University study the offspring. NOT for sale of any of the offspring obviously. Only for a research group to see how they progress, MRI's etc whatever the studies entail. The University vets were in favor of studieing her as she grew to see what the spinning did or didn't do, and she has not increased NOR decreased any of teh symptoms of spinning since I got her in january.
I tried to get information about this but didn't go far in inquiries.
Wolfy

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

They were saying that if a breeder states that HIS spiders don't have this trait, he should probably be avoided.

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Likewise could be said about breeders that state that ALL spiders have this trait. It's all marketing.

-adam

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

...Why do you keep mentioning getting flamed? Thats not how we roll in these parts....we are all here to learn ;)

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"WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! I have 2.2 spider's that will breed for me next season and i have never seen them do this.

So to say they ALL HAVE THIS IS WRONG!"


"Have you ever actually seen a 'spinning spider'? Do you know that 'spinning' can occur any just about any ball python but is only commonly talked about with spiders because it is sometimes more common with that trait and people like to talk? Have you personally checked ALL spiders for this condition to be able to make such a comment?"

No problem. I understand that people have strong feelings. My use of the word "flame" was not intended to offend you. Actually, it was more intended to re-direct the "heat", as it were, to this thread so that Wolfy's thread could get back on track.

Steve

Daniel1983,

In the other thread, you asked -
"Do you know that 'spinning' can occur any just about any ball python but is only commonly talked about with spiders because it is sometimes more common with that trait and people like to talk?"

Yes, I am aware that it can occur in bps other than spiders. In fact, I have seen it in one or two of my "non-spiders".

Steve