Breeding

I got a male bel from someone that bought it from a pet store so they don't know the bels parents are to make it a bel. what will I get if I breed with a normal female?

You should get either all of one type of BEL complex morph or half and half of two different ones.

These are the different morphs in the complex that I'm aware of:
lesser
het daddy
butter
mojave
moca
phantom
mystic
russo het leuc
special
bamboo

Some of these make up pretty white BELs and some make some with a little more color or pattern. There is also always a possibility there are other morphs in there that don't show and you could end up with some combos if there are.

how all those I thought only lesser, butter, Mojave,Russo and phantom make bels

Not every morph in the complex makes a perfectly white snake when mixed with the others, but they are proven to be allelic and the animal with both genes can only pass one gene or the other to the offspring, not both. Both genes work on the same strand basically.

So because of that, Mystic Potions, Lesser Specials and Crystals and so on are also technically BEL as they are in that complex even though they aren't just white with blue eyes.

Here is a rough idea of the colors, but keep in mind yours could be a combo of two different ones. It's unlikely to be any from the last group.


Usually white super:
butter
lesser
russo
bamboo

White to creamy super:
special
mocha

White to silvery super:
Mojave

Stronger color and patterns in super:
het daddy (I've never seen a super, but it likely is the closest to normal of anything in the complex)
phantom
mystic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

Here is a rough idea of the colors, but keep in mind yours could be a combo of two different ones. It's unlikely to be any from the last group.


Usually white super:
butter
lesser
russo
bamboo

White to creamy super:
special
mocha

White to silvery super:
Mojave

Stronger color and patterns in super:
het daddy (I've never seen a super, but it likely is the closest to normal of anything in the complex)
phantom
mystic

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mine is pure white basically and i figured since the mom is normal it would mostly make normals this will be my first time breeding

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jarrodbrooks87

mine is pure white basically and i figured since the mom is normal it would mostly make normals this will be my first time breeding

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In other words, you are assuming that the normal gene is the dominant gene and the white gene is the recessive gene in a dominant/recessive relationship. This is the most common relationship and the safest to assume pending more information.

Latest information is that most of the members of the blue-eyed leucistic (BEL) complex of genes are codominant (aka incompletely dominant) to the normal gene. And many combinations can produce a more or less white snake.

List of known gene complexes in the ball python: https://www.owalreptiles.com/complexes.php

Dominant/recessive relationship:
Genes in pair | appearance
--------------------|--------------
gene 1/gene 1 | appearance 1
gene 1/gene 2 | appearance 1
gene 2/gene 2 | appearance 2

Gene 1 is the dominant gene, and gene 2 is the recessive gene.

Codominant (aka incomplete dominant) relationship
Genes in pair | appearance
--------------------|--------------
gene 1/gene 1 | appearance 1
gene 1/gene 2 | appearance 3
gene 2/gene 2 | appearance 2

Appearance 3 could be more or less intermediate between appearance 1 and appearance 2. Or appearance 3 could be more extreme than either appearance 1 or appearance 2. Or appearance 3 could be the same as appearance 1 in some parts of the body and the same as appearance 2 in other parts of the body.

The relationship between two genes is a relative relationship. It is not a built-in property of a single gene. It is quite possible for one gene to be dominant to a second gene, recessive to a third, and codominant to a fourth member of the gene complex.

This is the fun part now you get to prove out what he is. I would assume it's lesser mojave just because that's one of the more common combinations that I see being used to produce bels. At leat in my experience while vending shows. Also say you come up with just one morph and then normals doesn't mean there's not more genes in there maybe have to be something you try several seasons depending on your odds. Gl and have fun proving him out!

Sean

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jarrodbrooks87

this will be my first time breeding

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I'm going to be a bit harsh here.

You really need to be doing a lot more research into things then. If you don't even understand how the genetics work for something as simple as BEL x Normal, have you done any research into the incubation or care for the hatchlings? Or even how to care for mom in case of an emergency like eggbinding? Could you euthanize a hatchling if you needed to? Get vet treatment for any of them?

Do you know how to get them started on food? What signs to watch out for in health? Do you know where they're going to go when they're older?

There is a lot that you need to consider.
I just had my 3rd clutch ever hatch last week... I already lost one hatchling. Another one has an eye deformity. And a third is probably going to need to be euthanized.
Things can happen that are entirely out of your control and you need to be prepared ahead of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sp0420

This is the fun part now you get to prove out what he is. I would assume it's lesser mojave just because that's one of the more common combinations that I see being used to produce bels. At leat in my experience while vending shows. Also say you come up with just one morph and then normals doesn't mean there's not more genes in there maybe have to be something you try several seasons depending on your odds. Gl and have fun proving him out!

Sean

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It is impossible for a BEL to have normal offspring. Every offspring will have at least 1 BEL gene. In the case some something like mocha or special they may be a bit hard to ID compared to the obvious bamboo, Mojave or lesser. But they will never have a normal in the offspring.

Every baby will be at least a single BEL gene. If there are any other hidden genes they'll show up as a combo in the offspring. Hopefully. Some can skip a breeding...
Or in the case of a het recessive... That's another can of worms and I don't think op is ready for it