ID PLease

I was sold this ball python was told it is a super pastel Gargoyle. Does anyone see Gargoyle? I think I may have been ripped off. I am thinking it is a pewter. He has a green tint coloring to him. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If he isnt what I was told then I know I paid way to much.

https://imgur.com/a/6C2bNGu

I'm not familiar with the lace black back/green pastel... And I'm not really seeing anything to compare to online so hopefully someone with experience pops up.

Did the breeder mention the pairing at all?
For me it looks like there's maybe lesser/butter in it? Like a lesser pewter or super pastel mojave cinny.
It doesn't look like the side pattern and back stripe are as busy as gargs I've seen posted... But on the other hand, beeps can have such high variations on their patterns at times that it can be hard to tell at times. And may be a lower expression of the lace black back for example....

I’m seeing Gargoyle and also the coloration effect that super pastel would have on the gargoyle. The lightening of the dark combination may give off a hue depending on the line of pastel that was used in the combo. The dorsal appearance seems consistent with a gargoyle /pastel combo to me. The scrambled lateral scales patterning coincides to me also. A beautiful reptile. Did the breeder/ seller guarantee the genetic makeup?

It looks like a Killer Gargoyle to me, especially in the area closer to the tail where the alienheads get especially funky looking. Try using morph market search logged in with "all" selected instead of just "for sale". Some have really washed out patterns like you would expect in a Pewter, but the ones where you can see pattern usually have alienheads with the "eyes" stretched bigger and the upper part of it kind of spiking up in areas. Cinnamons tend to have nice round or flat tops to the side pattern instead.

Examples from MM:

Killer Gargoyle
https://d20zyr0oabjxc2.cloudfront.ne...8803242CD33BF3

Sterling
https://d20zyr0oabjxc2.cloudfront.ne...D0E48647C7EE81

Found the breeder who hatched him. Told me mom was pewter but doesn't know what dad was first pic is mom second pic the babies he is the bottom of the tub

https://imgur.com/a/qE4KOkY

https://imgur.com/a/eN6XDWp

No unfortunately

Honestly, the breeder not knowing what dad was is a big red flag to me. Especially if this was being advertised as a garg from the start. Sure, sell it as a "Sterling Pastel + ??" but to breed pewter x ?? and just say Garg is really not a good thing to do.
If the breeder doesn't know what the genes are...the only way for you to know for sure will be to raise this little one and test breed it out.

Nikkubus and Albert added some good input on the look of the baby, so hopefully it does prove out as a lace black back, green pastel or HRA in the end. They've both have good eyes for this sort of thing.

Yeah I am learning the hard way.



UOTE=Armiyana;2770924]Honestly, the breeder not knowing what dad was is a big red flag to me. Especially if this was being advertised as a garg from the start. Sure, sell it as a "Sterling Pastel + ??" but to breed pewter x ?? and just say Garg is really not a good thing to do.
If the breeder doesn't know what the genes are...the only way for you to know for sure will be to raise this little one and test breed it out.

Nikkubus and Albert added some good input on the look of the baby, so hopefully it does prove out as a lace black back, green pastel or HRA in the end. They've both have good eyes for this sort of thing.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking that dam looks more HRA ( Het Red Axanthic) ? and the sire could be Cinny (Cinnamon pastel)? Great looking clutch and you really see the pastel influences in the siblings on top in the photo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

I was thinking that dam looks more HRA ( Het Red Axanthic) ? and the sire could be Cinny (Cinnamon pastel)? Great looking clutch and you really see the pastel influences in the siblings on top in the photo.

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I was thinking the same thing. She has some really funky side pattern going on and from what I can see in the picture has complete black back besides the neck. Cinnamon can have black back, but it's not a staple for them, they often have some broken dorsal striping.