Bamboo Spider Pastel pairing? And a few other questions

Hello! I recently picked up a male Bamboo Spider Pastel for an absolute steal because he is three years old and his breeder was holding him back but could not get him to properly eat and therefore is very small. Weigh in yesterday was 400 grams.

He hadn't eaten in over two months when I got him but after six days in my care he took down an ASF with zero issues for me. As long as I can keep him eating regularly and get him up to size I intend on breeding him. I've never bred before but seeing how stunning he is just sparked something in me.

I have kept reptiles for close to 20 years but just recently got back into ball pythons. Seeing the amount of morphs available now is honestly overwhelming. I don't even know where to start! I've found a few pairings that I thought would make some awesome babies but unfortunately most of them also had spider in them and I'd like to avoid crossing spiders.

Also on the spider note, how does that affect multiple gene animals? I know spider x spider is generally regarded as bad but would the same issues be present in say crossing a bumblebee to him? On the calculator it shows quite a few possibility of super spider and I really don't want to end up with stillborn or having to euthanize snakes. Should anything with spider just be avoided?

I've played around with the morph calculator a little bit and even that's a bit daunting as I'm not familiar with the genetics of a lot of these morphs. Any ideas on good pairings would be greatly appreciated!

One other note on his genetics. One parent was bamboo, the other was super pastel lesser spider. I'm not super familiar with how the lesser gene works, but I do believe he shows some visible signs of lesser as well. Compared to others I've seen of his morph, the brown is very faded. He has a lot of yellow though. His patterning is mostly a line along his head and back, the rest of him is pure white and he has very blue eyes. Any insight on this?

If he had Lesser and Bamboo he would be near pure white with blue eyes, so he doesn't have Lesser.

Spider x Spider is going to do the same thing regardless of if one is in a combo or not but 99.9999% of any issues that would happen would be the single gene spider hatchlings having an especially bad wobble or Super Spiders will be dying in the egg long before hatching. You can breed Spider x Spider, but 1/4 eggs are going to go bad on you. Once in a great while, people get a Super Spider to actually hatch and then it dies soon after. A lot of people misunderstand why it's bad, so I thought it would help to explain that. So it's not that much of a no-no, but most peopel still don't want to because it's not as productive when you lose 25% of your eggs.

Now certain other morphs + Spider can cause hatchlings that do hatch but often need euthanized so things you really want to stay away from breeding with a Spider are: Woma, Hidden Gene Woma, Sable, and Champagne. Some people have said Spotnose cause problems with it too but I don't have enough reputable information to say for sure on that one.

I'd stay away from Blackhead because it undoes a lot of the Spider pattern if a BP gets both and isn't a good representation of either morph.

It really depends what type of morphs most appeal to you what I might recommend breeding him with. If you like BEL (blue-eyed leucistic), breeding him with a Lesser, Mojave, or Phantom would give you 1/4 BEL. If you like funky patterns you might try breeding him with a Pinstripe. If you like pastel oranges and yellows you might try Banana or Coral Glow (++ if you can get Enchi and/or Yellow Belly in there with it).

Thank you for the response and all the good info!

I wasn't sure about the lesser so thank you for confirming.

That's kind of what I thought with spiders. From what I've gathered, it seems that single gene spiders seem to have more issues than multiple genes. My boy has zero noticable wobbles or corkscrews. I'm definitely going to avoid crossing spider back in. I know it's a little controversial to breed spiders at all but I personally think most spider combos seem to be just as healthy as any other morph and I love what they do in combos. Just don't want to deal with dead babies.

I am aware of the issues with those other morphs as well but I'm not a fan of any of those really. Not for the issues, I just prefer lighter snakes with more patterning.

With all that said I'm not a huge fan of pure white snakes either. I didn't even realize bamboo was in the BEL group until I started doing more pairings on the calculator last night so thank you for confirming that as well! I do love bamboo but will probably avoid anything that makes BEL. Banana was one of the pairings I tried last night and really liked the results. I didn't even think of pinstripe but that looks like it's could throw some really cool combos! Or a banana pinstripe even. Banana bamboo enchi are gorgeous though! For simplicity sake, I think I might even just go super pastel. It's a cheap fun project and I like the 1/8 odds better and I'm a big fan of everything it could throw out.

Thank you again for your response! I've got a lot to think about now before I head to my next show later this month!

I tend to agree with nikkubus banana spiders are very attractive but you'll probably be looking at a decent price tag for a female banana. I would personally stay away from the bel because you won't know what is in it with all those Genetics. You may end up with a bel and not want to pair it with another spider because it may have spider. Although lesser pastel spiders are gorgeous.

Off the top of my head I personally might look for something like a pastel or super pastel or pastel enchi. All of those will be relatively inexpensive and that would give you a nice mix of attractive combos and single gene animals. Heck you could probably pick up several of those that are hatchlings for 300 bucks or less.

Also from my experience the wobble varies doesn't matter what Genetics are in them. My lesser pastel spider has the worst corkscrew out of all 8 of my spiders. At least in my experience it's random. Also keep in mind that just because there is wobble doesn't mean that they don't have a quality life. Sometimes it's just a lil harder to feed the ones that are really bad.

(Please no comments from spider haters, everyone has their own opinions and am just trying to help the op understand the morph from my personal experience)

I haven't noticed any better or worse from Spider in combos vs just Spider either but I have a limited pool of data. None of mine have ever had even a moderate case, it's always been extremely subtle. The worst case I've had (and it's still only noticeable during pre-strike and if you intentionally turn her upside down with eating) is my Enchi Pastel and she doesn't even have any of the morphs known for wobble :P I really think husbandry plays a big role because stress does make it worse.

If you like the lighter animals, Banana combos would be great, but sp0420 is right, female Bananas are not cheap. You could always hold back a lovely Bamboo combo female from this boy x Super Pastel or something like that and get a nice powerhouse Banana male to go with her down the road though!

Thanks for the input! I have actually decided against banana. As much as I like the combos it could make, I agree females can be spendy. Plus I have a female het pied that I'd like to pair with banana pied down the road! I think I've settled on super pastel for this guy, all of the possible outcomes from that are right up my alley. I can probably get a nice female or two for pretty cheap at a show later this month as well!

I also agree with what you are both saying about spiders. I'm glad this forum is more open minded about it. It's actually why I came here, I figured people would be more open. Mention that you even own a spider other places and people will tear you apart! I don't think a wobble or corkscrew means lower quality of life, especially if you are capable of handling the more severe cases. Some people's arguments can get pretty nonsensical. I think a lot of people who are very "opinionated" on spiders just heard their favorite YouTuber disapprove of them and just follow along.

I'm glad I can come here and have a reasonable discussion about it without being called immoral. People who say those kind of things really need to take a look at the ball python market and even the reptile trade as a whole and reevaluate what it is they are actually trying to argue.

I know exactly what you mean. There are a few people here who are against it, but it's not often that I see them attacking over difference in opinion the way they do elsewhere. I am very grateful for that!