New to the hobby an starting a small colony

So i grew up on a farm an still have plenty of farm animals but in the last year i started to keep tarantulas and that was the stepping stone into snakes, and now i am dipping my hand into breeding ball pythons slowly, i def dont plan to get rich honestly just the interest in mixing morphs and seeing the clutches will be enough for me as long as i can sell the hatchlings so i dont end up with an over stock of snake lol. I found very fast that rats aren't cheap where i live. 5$ for med. live or frozen price is the same, and since at the moment im feeding only a few snakes ordering in bulk isn't a great way to save plus the shipping not to mention a lot of places online are sold out of med rats at the moment. I plan on building a small rack and putting it in my goat shed away from the house so they will have some extra warmth from the goats and the smell wont be an issue if the weather gets too cold i have the intent to house them inside during the winter in the garage. I had also thought about hangin cages like i use for my rabbits with wire bottoms so all the dropping fall onto the ground for easy cleaning or natural composting for the warm months as this would cut back bedding and smell.
Currently i have only been buying rats to feed but last week i bought a large (barely bigger then med.) male and female to start my breeding i want to pick up some actual nice feeders from a reptile show coming up in oct im hoping the feeder stand will be set up like last time but for now im only planning on small scale 1-2 females an a male. plan to breed them let them nurse and take the weaned ones into a grow out bin rebreed the females and repeat. So far i know one of my pythons will eat frozen. I picked up some of the recommend brand of food however its not the F6 its Rodent diet type same company, but i also was looking into a different feed. I use chicken feed ground fine for my roaches and superworms and it works better then the over price roach chow at 15$ per 50lb cant beat that, and one of the biggest issues we had was rats and mice in the chicken feed at the farm until we got cats so i did alot of looking and compared to F6 at 35$ per bag the hog feed is 15$ per bag and seems to be a pretty close sub.
So i plan to build a simple rack tubs arriving today, right now my rats are in quail cages. I want to look into like i said outside hanging cages to cut back the bedding cost (atleast 8months of the year) and test hog feed to see if that is a good alternative to the costly brand plus the shipping. I have been looking for any info on how much rats eat the breeding age any first hand experience even with bedding and F6 still will be cheaper to raise my own over 5-6$ a rat and the quality would be better.

I've never heard of having rats in a wire hanging cage, so no feedback on that. I don't think it will work while you're breeding, though. They aren't like rabbits, that give birth and raise their babies in one spot. I also don't know how their tiny feet will handle the wire. They need the bedding to make nests, and will need a lot of it to stay warm in the winter. Especially any babies, as in my experience, mothers will completely cover their babies with bedding so that they have a warm pocket.

I bought an 8 or 9 cu ft bag of aspen for $37, and with how little I've used in 2 bedding changes, I think it will last me a good year. I currently have one 4 tier rack with black tubs from Tractor Supply, and change the bedding as it starts to smell or look dingy. Which is maybe every 1-1.5 weeks for 1-2 adults. Probably every day once all the babies are making messes. haha

The first time I started raising rats, I had just albinos in a wooden 5' cage with a wire mesh front. I gave them deep bedding that only needed to be changed every few months with 2 females, one male, and their offspring (the male was kept separate when he wasn't breeding so as not to overbreed the females). In the winter, I'd make their bedding about half as deep as the cage is so they could stay sufficiently warm. They were in the back of a carport out of the sun and wind, and did quite well even in the negatives. This go around I'm going to keep them inside, and as of right now they're in that 4 tier homemade rack system I mentioned above. The rats hardly smell imo, except on cleaning day, so it doesn't bother me at all.

A couple things of note:

1) Wire bottom cages are not at all good for rats. They can develop a condition called bumble foot and your babies can easily fall through of get hurt. Below is a picture of my breeding setup:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...rack_thumb.jpg

This is large cement mixing tubs from Lowes. The construction is cheap pine lumber painted black. Half inch hardware cloth is stapled to the upper section over the tub to keep the rats in.

The rack on the right of the image is 50g or so Sterlite tubs that are modified to hold a water bottle with a dremel and hardware cloth. These are my grow out bins for feeders being raised up and/or future breeders.

2) It is worth the time and effort to source pet quality rats from the beginning. Paying $30 each or more for starting stock may not seem like a deal, but in the long run it's worth it to not have to breed out maternal aggression or other undesireable traits.

3) Unless you're planning on feeding 10+ snakes, you may be better served with buying frozen. Breeding rats is a commitment to my time every week that measures a few hours. I also sell my excess feeders and make money at it, so that helps account for the time too.

Hope it helps you out.

Paul

Rats like to nest and babies will fall through the wires not to mention if they did not it would be very uncomfortable for animals that small and fragile.

Housing them outside or a barn that is open (I assume it is for the goats) will attract predators and field mice that carry parasites (internal and external) and other diseases that will affect and potentially kill your colony, not something I would feed to my snake.

You can get Pine shaving from TSK for $5.99, 1 bail allows me to do more than 18 rat tubs and 10 birthing rat tubs and 20 mice tubs a week, so it's not a big expense.

Feed wise you need to watch your fat and protein content and of course food that sits on the top of the hardware cloth is what you are looking for as well (this will eliminate food waste)

You want to separate your females before they give birth because back to back breeding, (pregnant while nursing) will take it's toll very fast, smaller babies and smaller number.

Use this as a rack guide:
http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rat_rack.html

If you have a shop, put the rack in it. You know damn well the goats will F' your rat cages up. They will headbutt it, stand on it or just knock it over just to see them.

If you have a pump house that you heat the rack will work there also.

What's your ballpark location. Some of "us" might be close for ideas or help.
Good luck!

Most 18% hog feed works fine an so will dog food (dye free). Some hog feed has metal added that will mess up your rats breeding/litter size. If breeding BPs ASF are better to raise. Unlike rats ASF won't outgrow the snake.

The hanging cage was ajust an idea and like rabbits they would have wooden boards to prevent foot problems and nesting boxes. The 6$ pine shaving bail from tractor supply store will this work i seen alot of about pine shaving causing health issues? As far as the goat barn i have the barn separated my herd cant reach the food storage side which is where i had planned on installing my rack so it wont be damaged by the goats and the barn isnt opened to animals and i dont have any wild rodent problems as i actually hate wild rodents and keep an mouser cat for just that reason. I would just buy frozen but most of the places i found online are out of stock or 29$ shipping which would just be left on my door until i get home, plus only one of my pythons eats frozen at the moment so i do need live and the local store is 5$ each. Breeding my own just seems like the easiest choice as i can freeze the extra and i will need live pups to feed any hatchlings in the future so just the logically choice as my local store only adult rats not pups. Thanks for the input i will most likely be moving the rat rack into the garage in the winter an depending on the smell they may end up staying there i just know the ones i get from the local store are reek but that may be simply the way they keep them.

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about pine shaving causing health issues?

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I have been breeding 5K to 7.5K of rats and mice for 12 years now using pine and never had an issue, pine found in store like tractor supply is kilned dried.

95% of people breeding rats for food use pine without issues.

What about those pine pellets for horses i see alot of ppl use them with the pine shavings

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Originally Posted by miller17015

What about those pine pellets for horses i see alot of ppl use them with the pine shavings

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With rats only if the babies are over 2 weeks old and you still need to use shaving for nesting.

Pellets are very absorbent and cut on the smell however babies that are under 2 weeks of age will inhale the dust when broke down, clogging up their nostril and leading to increased loses (tried it), so I only recommend that you use this when the babies are old enough.