Super Fire ID Help

Hey guys, pairing was dragonfly x fire pinstripe: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wi...4&female=58,84

These 2 are clearly super fire, but they likely also have pinstripe and/or pastel. They have not yet shed.

#1
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...mg/S9054_l.jpg

#2
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...mg/S9055_l.jpg

Looking at just the super fires together gives:

12.5%	super fire
37.5%	super fire pinstripe
12.5%	super fire pastel
37.5%	super fire pastel pinstripe

With the super fires can you visually distinguish them when they also have pastel or pinstripe? Or do you have to breed them to know?

Would you sell them as 75% chance of pinstripe plus 50% chance of pastel?

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arizonareptile_com

Would you sell them as 75% chance of pinstripe plus 50% chance of pastel?

Thanks!

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So first off it would be 66% pinstripe not 75 second I don't know of any way to tell when a super fire if the pin is there other than breeding and you would really list them as a possible pinstripe just because. That's what I would do anyhow. the super fire pins really not going to add a whole lot to it same with pastel it would be possible pastel possible pinstripe I just hatched a clutch of super black pastels that are possible pinstripe possible spotnose and that's how they get marketed

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kool! cute! congrats! i'm in the same boat. i just had 2 Super Fires as well. one has splotches and the other is clean. i see that u have splotchy and another w/ really faint yellows.

here's mine:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/qd3Bpwj.jpg

:)

i think imma black light them for fun but will be listing them when they're ready as Super Fires poss. other genes. the only way to guarantee the genes if they came from other Supers or prove/breed them out.

I do love the splotchy super fires too many other combinations make a solid white snake

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Thanks guys.

@StillBP, why 66%?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arizonareptile_com

Thanks guys.

@StillBP, why 66%?

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50% chance form each parent just like a recessive het. 50%x2=66%

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I guess I'm not sure what you're referring to, the chance of not getting super pinstripe from among the pinstripes?

If both parents are pinstripe wouldn't 75% of the babies be pinstripe (and 75% of the super fires as well?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StillBP

I do love the splotchy super fires too many other combinations make a solid white snake

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Gotta love a solid white snake:cool::snake::cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arizonareptile_com

If both parents are pinstripe wouldn't 75% of the babies be pinstripe (and 75% of the super fires as well?)

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In this case, I would personally list them as super fire poss. Pinstripe unless you can visually confirm markings with a blacklight on the babies.
There's really not a way to reliably % base the pinstripe gene as co-dom traits don't play by the nice rules that recessives do.

The 66% is usually in regards to recessives traits. Co-dom are more tricky. The individual odds are generally listed as 100/66/50 regarding animals carrying recessive genes.

Breeding a visual to a recessive, all normal appearing babies will be carrying the gene, so 100% het.
When you breed resessives, even though the odds of getting a visual is 1 in 4, the normal looking babies are considered 66% het chance. It's the odds of those 3 that don't end up visual: 2 het and 1 normal. Statistically speaking.
When breeding a recessive to a normal, the odds of the baby carrying that gene is 50%

It’s a gamble but I would guess that #2 is pastel. Once they shed check them out under a black light and you may see some pattern. Either way, these guesses should only help you decide if you want to hold one back over the other and should be sold as “possibles”. Because of the possible factor, I would price them at the higher end of price range for super fire and show pictures of the parents.