Refused The Mouse

I purchased a 2 month old ball python from a breeder about 3 weeks ago. He was feeding her live hopper mice. But I have then switched her over to frozen with no issues up until this point. Right now she is in a 10gal enclosure w aspen bedding, hide on the warm side and a hide on the cool side. The ambient temperature currently is 78*F and a humidity of 63%. I am assuming she has no issues w the the enclosure being that she comes out of her hide like clock work everyday when I get back from work. Now here is my dilemma. She refused her mouse yesterday. 2 things have happened prior to this. 1. I accidentally fed her a small fuzzy last week and not a hopper (got my mice mixed up) . I had not fed her again up until last night. 2. I bought a slightly larger water bowl to help increase the humidity although it was still in ballpark range with the smaller bowl. The smaller bowl kept the humidity between 57%-59%. Last night I placed the frozen hopper mouse in a sandwich bag and placed it in a hot bowl of water for 20 mins. Grabbed it with the feeding tongs and held it and wiggled it in front of her. She came up and "smelt" it but wouldn't budge. Then she finally lunged at it after about a minute and half and got a hold of it. She held on to it for a minute then let go and turned around and looked at me like WTF is? lol. Anyways. Could she be beginning to go into shed? Do I wait another week before feeding her again? Can I still handle her? * I am a new owner and new to all of this...

Eve's Enclosure

She is chillin on top of her warm side enclosure

You can see the new bowl inside vs the old bowl outside

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._0942_copy.jpg


Eve's Food

Dont laugh at my fridge. I am a single man...LOL

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._0943_copy.jpg

Thanks for any advice!!!

Hey pretty balanced diet to me;) I still cover three sides to make your babe feel safer, how did you heat the pray maybe it wasn't warm enough for her fancy since she was previously on live?I guess I wait awhile and try again, making sure to heat the head up with either hot water or a hair drier hopefully someone with more experience will chime in, best wishes always..:D

Are you using some kind of UTH?


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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

Are you using some kind of UTH?


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Looks like the heat mat is on the side ( left of picture ) .

It's not something we advise over here in the UK though tbh

Can't see it being the only heat source as it's far too small to make a difference even if it was underneath the tank ..

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Looks like the heat mat is on the side ( left of picture ) .

It's not something we advise over here in the UK though tbh


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I see it now. That’s probably the issue. A 78 ambient with no under belly heat isn’t going to work for digestion.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

I see it now. That’s probably the issue. A 78 ambient with no under belly heat isn’t going to work for digestion.


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It may not be a heat mat but it does look like one ...


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Try moving the UTH to under the tank instead of the side. You can't get an accurate reading this way for a snake who needs belly heat. It could be warming up the air but not the belly. Make sure you are using a thermostat or dimmer. Set it for no higher than 88 F. Some owners do well at 90 F and I had that with my bp at the start when he was tiny. He was avoiding his hot spot and many suggested to lower the temp to 88 which worked for me.

Using a hair dryer after thawing the rodent helps greatly. The food must be as warm as it is alive, and live rodents are quite warm. Not only that, if you dry it near the tank, the smell would usually get her going and ready to eat.

I believe the lowest temp you should have is 80 F. I don't know if being 2 degrees would make a big difference so someone else can confirm that.

Hides should touch the sides and top of the snake. The more secure it feels, the easier it can settle down. You can pick up a plastic plant dish for less than a dollar at your local hardware store. Cut a hole and you are ready to go. Always use identical hides.

No handling until she eats consistently for several meals. Some suggest 2-3 (which is what I do with all my new snakes), others recommend at least 4-5 depending on how shy your bp is (Some are naturally more easily spooked than others).

Add more clutter in your tank. This cam be done with fake plants or newspaper. You can pick up a sizeable fake plant from your local dollar store. Less open space = more security for the baby noodle.

Lastly, once the husbandry is fixed and she starts to eat again, she needs to upgrade to a small mouse or rat pinkie. There is a feeding chart in the forums for your reference. I would stay with mice until she eats more consistently, gain some weight, then prepare for the switch to rats starting with rat fuzzies (when she is ready for another upgrade to medium/adult mice). Hoppers are too small for her at this point but since she refused her last meal, I would fix the husbandry, try again with the hopper, if she eats it, upgrade to small mice next time.

Along with what everyone else said, an animal that age that has been feeding fairly regularly is likely to be entering a shed cycle. Many will not eat during this period. Check to see if the belly is a little pink. If it is the shed cycle is beginning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dp124

I purchased a 2 month old ball python from a breeder about 3 weeks ago. He was feeding her live hopper mice. But I have then switched her over to frozen with no issues up until this point. Right now she is in a 10gal enclosure w aspen bedding, hide on the warm side and a hide on the cool side. The ambient temperature currently is 78*F and a humidity of 63%. I am assuming she has no issues w the the enclosure being that she comes out of her hide like clock work everyday when I get back from work. Now here is my dilemma. She refused her mouse yesterday. 2 things have happened prior to this. 1. I accidentally fed her a small fuzzy last week and not a hopper (got my mice mixed up) . I had not fed her again up until last night. 2. I bought a slightly larger water bowl to help increase the humidity although it was still in ballpark range with the smaller bowl. The smaller bowl kept the humidity between 57%-59%. Last night I placed the frozen hopper mouse in a sandwich bag and placed it in a hot bowl of water for 20 mins. Grabbed it with the feeding tongs and held it and wiggled it in front of her. She came up and "smelt" it but wouldn't budge. Then she finally lunged at it after about a minute and half and got a hold of it. She held on to it for a minute then let go and turned around and looked at me like WTF is? lol. Anyways. Could she be beginning to go into shed? Do I wait another week before feeding her again? Can I still handle her? * I am a new owner and new to all of this...

Eve's Enclosure

She is chillin on top of her warm side enclosure

You can see the new bowl inside vs the old bowl outside

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._0942_copy.jpg


Eve's Food

Dont laugh at my fridge. I am a single man...LOL

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._0943_copy.jpg

Thanks for any advice!!!

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Welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of snake keeping!

First off, fuzzies and hoppers are too small for a BP. They eat hoppers right out of the egg for only 3-5 meals and quickly move up to small adult mice. (See chart below)

Second it's important to understand the importance of husbandry and security for BPs.
Starting with security, I would advise getting two identical hides that fit snugly and only have one cave like opening. Those hides aren't offering the security BPs crave. They will often sacrifice proper temps in favor of security, and proper identical hides will eliminate this issue.

Adding clutter in the form of fake plants goes a long way too. And "blacking out" the sides and back as well.

Now on to husbandry. Your humidity sounds good, but you only mentioned one temp.
So, the more you tell us the better we can help you.

- How are you heating the enclosure?
- Areyour heat sources regulated by a thermostat??? VERY IMPORTANT
- How are you measuring temps? And where?

- Are you feeding the snake in the enclosure or a seperate feeding tub?


Lastly, I strongly advise no handling of the snake until the snake is eating regularly. For me, that means 3 consecutive meals without refusal. So, since your snake refused last offering, that starts again. No handling until the snake eats 3 meals without a refusal.
You'll have you snake for 25+ years, plenty of time to handle, but the snake needs to be eating and that should be priority over handling.

Wait a week (at LEAST 5 days) from the time you offered last before offering again. Offering too often can stress the snake.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of snake keeping!

First off, fuzzies and hoppers are too small for a BP. They eat hoppers right out of the egg for only 3-5 meals and quickly move up to small adult mice. (See chart below)

Second it's important to understand the importance of husbandry and security for BPs.
Starting with security, I would advise getting two identical hides that fit snugly and only have one cave like opening. Those hides aren't offering the security BPs crave. They will often sacrifice proper temps in favor of security, and proper identical hides will eliminate this issue.

Adding clutter in the form of fake plants goes a long way too. And "blacking out" the sides and back as well.

Now on to husbandry. Your humidity sounds good, but you only mentioned one temp.
So, the more you tell us the better we can help you.

- How are you heating the enclosure?
- Areyour heat sources regulated by a thermostat??? VERY IMPORTANT
- How are you measuring temps? And where?

- Are you feeding the snake in the enclosure or a seperate feeding tub?


Lastly, I strongly advise no handling of the snake until the snake is eating regularly. For me, that means 3 consecutive meals without refusal. So, since your snake refused last offering, that starts again. No handling until the snake eats 3 meals without a refusal.
You'll have you snake for 25+ years, plenty of time to handle, but the snake needs to be eating and that should be priority over handling.

Wait a week (at LEAST 5 days) from the time you offered last before offering again. Offering too often can stress the snake.


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I am using a UTH underneath the enclosure stuck directly to the enclosure.

I am using a heat controller from Zilla. The one with the dial to control the heating pad. Then I use a digital thermometer/hygrometer to get ambient temps and humidity along with a temperature gun to get surface temps.

*Current ambient temp/humidity reads 78*F / 62%

*Current surface temps reads 80*F (warm side......I have Zilla heat controller dialed to 95*) / 76*F (cool side)

I feed her inside of her enclosure. So no separate feeding tub

Thanks for all the advice. I will be going to the store to get new hides, plants, and something to cover the sides and back of the enclosure.

Also, how often do you completely replace the substrate? I am currently using Aspen but I may switch to the EcoEearth with loose coconut fiber and mix in a little bit of reptibark.

Thanks again!