Tell me what you see

Below are three pics of two siblings. I'll get you started with some information about the pairing that produced them. The known is it was a BEL (Butter/Mojave) X Pastel. Both I and the breeder think there may be another gene present and I'm asking opinions to see what the consensus is. Now before this goes for a while and people are disappointed, we don't know the answer and the BEL in questions is no longer available to prove out. So this is really an exercise in opinion and not a definitive conclusion. I just don't want to be torched after a 100 replies. Thanks for playing.

https://s19.postimg.cc/3t1fcv9ir/201...25_resized.jpg

https://s19.postimg.cc/3t1fcp9gz/201...23_resized.jpg

https://s19.postimg.cc/ddl1zkr37/201...54_resized.jpg

Pastel Butter - Left
Mojave/Low Expression Pastel-Mojave - Right

I don't see prominent neck stripes so that rules out a lot of the oddballs genes that would pair up with the caudal stripe.
High blush and caudal stripe on the Pastel Butter might indicate Het for G-Stripe.

I always rely on the breeders to tell me what I'm buying. If they can get a few extra bucks out of me for a possible Het in a combo: I expect they would try.

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

Pastel Butter - Left
Mojave/Low Expression Pastel-Mojave - Right

I don't see prominent neck stripes so that rules out a lot of the oddballs genes that would pair up with the caudal stripe.
High blush and caudal stripe on the Pastel Butter might indicate Het for G-Stripe.

I always rely on the breeders to tell me what I'm buying. If they can get a few extra bucks out of me for a possible Het in a combo: I expect they would try.

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Thank LS. This isn't a matter of a known possible het and the breeder isn't asking for more. This is more like something looks different, let's see if we can break it down. One of the details that I find interesting is the lack of alien eyes or donut holes. I've seen reduced Lesser/Butter Pastels, but there aren't too many incidences of Mojave Pastel where the donut hole is reduced or not present like this animal. Most Mojave Pastels I've seen have very defined donut holes.

Looking at that trait, what are some combos that might create that effect?

Here is a hatchling pic of the Mojave Pastel for consideration.

https://s19.postimg.cc/dl5hb2gkz/Mojave_Pastel.png

Calico Mojave. Were these the only two eggs. Do you have a photo before first shed.

Could just be a weird one off pastave... maybe not genetic? Other than the small holes it looks like a dark pastave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

Calico Mojave. Were these the only two eggs. Do you have a photo before first shed.

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I don't know if there were more eggs. This is really all the data I have. Sorry its not much to go on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

Could just be a weird one off pastave... maybe not genetic? Other than the small holes it looks like a dark pastave.

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Agreed! I just find it interesting to dig. There are so many genes and so many people mixing and matching, people casting off possible het animals as normal or base gene combos, it's just impossible to know conclusively what is present even when you've produced it.

I like to remind people that there are het sunsets out in the world that were bought as normal. The way Brian tells it is he was so sure the Sunset gene was going to be a Co-Dom gene that when nothing visual came out, he chalked it up as not genetic and sold most of the hatchlings off in a wholesale lot as normal ball pythons. Later he cross bred a few he held back just to be able to officially close the door on the project and instead hit two visuals. In the meantime, little Johnny goes to Petsmart or Petco or wherever those babies went and buys himself a ball python. Later he finds this forum and decides to get a Pastel or a YB and breed to his normal just for kicks. And there you are. More unknowns out there.