Pastel Yellowbelly?

Hi guys. I bought this girl last year from an online vendor and picked her up at a show. She was purchased as an "enchi het pied", but when I posted pictures it was immediately pointed out that she's not an enchi, but a pastel. I always thought she looked a little different than most pastels, but I shrugged it off as individual variation within the morph up until now.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...com/1tmr7t.jpg

Earlier this year I bought a yellowbelly male, and one day while handling him I noticed that his headstamp looks a lot like hers. Here's a headshot of him for comparison:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/33f70cg.jpg

The male was from a different source, so they're probably unrelated, but they both have that light spot in the enter of the head. The contrast in her pattern looks yellowbelly-ish to me and she hasn't browned out as much as most pastels. She's a 2015 girl, getting close to 1500g. The plan is to breed her to my enchi pied male out of pure spite to prove the guy who sold her to me wrong (he never stopped insisting she's an enchi), but if she's also yellowbelly I might have an extra gene on my hands.

Here are a few more older pics to help you get a better sence of what she looks like. Unfortunately the lighting in my room isn't great, so most of my photos of her are either too dark, or I used flash.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...com/s65fme.jpg
Obvious flash photo from January.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/28u495c.jpg
No flash, in her tub by the window. Earlier this month.


So what do you think? I'm pretty convinced she's yellowbelly, but I'm no expert. Let me know if I'm off base.

we need pictures of the pattern where her sides meet her belly but I'm not convinced I'm seeing pastel at all? :oops:

Yeah, her headstamp looks nothing like most pastels and that's always thrown me. Colorwise she's pretty comparable my daughter's pastel male though. Enough that it takes me a minute to tell which is which if they get tangled up. I don't know of any other morph that makes a snake that bright yellow.

Anyway, it's late and she's squirmy so I couldn't get good side pics, but I got a few belly pics. You can see where the pattern vanishes for the most part:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/2m4u80l.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...com/22gaig.jpg

Her belly is similar to most of my het pied females, so I never thought much of it. Might be able to get better pics in the morning. Maybe I shold do a group shot for comparison's sake? With her, the pastel, and the yellowbelly. I know color doesn't always come through well on the internet, especially when lighting is bad in the photo.

The eye color in true pastels is green also. The enchi claim is very controversial as the "clover" head stamp is not clearly visible. I think the het pied possibility is there but she would have to breed and produce pieds for that to be proven. Still a very interesting project and beautiful python. Oh, the ventral scale checkering is not correct for Yellowbelly. Just my opinions too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

The eye color in true pastels is green also.The enchi claim is very controversial as the "clover" head stamp is not clearly visible. I think the het pied possibility is there but she would have to breed and produce pieds for that to be proven. Still a very interesting project and beautiful python. Oh, the ventral scale checkering is not correct for Yellowbelly. Just my opinions too.

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You mean single gene pastels when you say that right? Aren't combos a different story? I suppose it depends on the combo, since I know some genes would overrride the green eyes and some wouldn't. But yeah, now that I have an enchi it's very obvious that there isn't any enchi in her. I guess I should just consider her a dinker at this point, since I have no way to find out what's in her until I breed her.

I went ahead and took group pics with her, my yellowbelly, and my daughter's pastel. The latter is in shed though. He's a mature snake, and kinda browned out to begin with, so he looks awful. I thought about deleting the photos and trying again after he's done, but his genes aren't an issue and I can always take more later.

Yellowbelly on the right, pastel (in the blue) on the left, and the middle is my mystery girl.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/333ddlk.jpg

In this one you can see their patterns better:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...com/iool90.jpg

For reference's sake, the yellowbelly is '16 and the mystery girl is '15. Not sure of the exact age on the pastel, but I'm guessing 14' or older. When he isn't in shed he's about as yellow as she is, but she doesn't have nearly as much blushing as he does. His eyes are normally green, her eyes are darker. Her blacks are really dark too, a lot like the yellowbelly. I'm just wondering if yellowbelly can darken a pastel that way.

I was planning on holding back a male baby from her to breed to my other girls, but I could breed it back to her as well. We'll see how it goes. If she is pastel yellowbelly I think a few single gene babies would prove it without inbreeding, but if not I might have to. The enchi male should help. Pastel enchis are usually pretty disctinct, so I think I'd know if I had one.

Yeah, I think you are right that combos can have varying affects on traits including eye color, patterning and overall coloration. It's going to be interesting to see how she proves out for you. I see the the " het pied " markers but they are not definitive indicators and like you said the breeding will tell the story. Good luck with her she really is a beautiful reptile.

Decided to focus on comparing this girl to my daughter's male pastel. Seems like as soon as he's out of shed, she's in it. So it took awhile to get them both decent.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...com/jzaadw.jpg
In good lighting I realized her yellows are actually brighter than his.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/2dhvi3s.jpg
Lots of flash in this one, but it's a good shot to compare the differences in color and pattern. And the similarities.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/2u4kbd1.jpg
Closeup of the male's face. He's a pretty typical pastel as far as I can tell. Lovely eyes. I think he'd make decent bumblebees, but I don't have any plans to breed for them.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/2e0pyr5.jpg
And another one of my girl. Sometimes I think I see a little green near the top of her eyes, but I'm not sure. Might just be wishful thinking on my part.

Looking at it, my first thought is Classic Jungle. The head stamp is a little weak, and it doesn't have the most 'jungling' in the world, but that seems closest. Think of the reason Pastels were originally called Pastel Jungles -- their similarity to this very trait.

If that's what she is, it's likely not inheritable as such. It's just something that happens. Of course the Pied gene can really tweak the look of a het, so that might be coming into play, as well.