Fire Spider vs Bumblebee vs Honey Bee?

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...2/img_8154.jpghere is Morpheus, our recent addition to the family. Morpheus has been eating quite well since we got him a few weeks ago and had a successful shed last night, all one piece. I thought I'd post a picture because it was marked as a Fire spider at a local owned pet store but I've looked at photos of Bumblebees and Honey Bees that look very similar and I'm wondering if there is a specific characteristic that would formally designate this one?

Also, I read that breeding spider morphs together is very problematic due to the head bob neurologic issue/genetics. is it therefore a bad idea to consider breeding a fire spider to a Bumblebee? I've read about it being done successfully but not sure what the final word is on it?

I love this pattern as well as our bumblebee and should they turn out to be male and female, I was thinking it would be really cool to breed them, if that's a viable option. I'm looking to get into the business but it would be a neat learning experience for myself and the kiddos.

Lots of debate back and forth over that. Plenty of people breed spiders. I think as long as the resulting offspring can eat and thrive there shouldn't be an issue. Most seem to say their snakes have some degree of wobble but have no issue eating.

Dont see any Pastel or Hypo in that Spider.

I dont mind the wobble as long as they can eat on their own.

So does Fire Spider sound right or is it a matter of genetic predecessors and something determined by the breeder?

Also, to be clear, I wrote that post a little to fast, the last sentence should say: "I'm NOT looking to get into the business..." who knows, somewhere down the line maybe but for now we are just really enjoying our new family members.

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Originally Posted by Slither Seeker

So does Fire Spider sound right or is it a matter of genetic predecessors and something determined by the breeder?

Also, to be clear, I wrote that post a little to fast, the last sentence should say: "I'm NOT looking to get into the business..." who knows, somewhere down the line maybe but for now we are just really enjoying our new family members.

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I'd say you should go by what it was sold as. Definitely no pastel/hypo in there.

About the whole breeding spider X spider, I'm not aware of any super spiders being produced but as far as I'm concerned the spider gene is the same as the jaguar gene in carpet pythons. If this is the case the super is likely lethal.


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The super spider is confirmed lethal, if what I recall from prior searching is correct. Several people have reported "white snakes" in spider to spider breedings that either died before the end of incubation or shorty after pipping (exposure to air). It's been a while since I researched this so I can't remember specific names (I'm sure I can find the reports though), but some people following the breedings/results think it's an lung toxicity or underdevelopement problem along with the compounded neuro issues.

Personally, I wouldn't breed spider to spider simply because of the chance of producing a snake with the lethal combo. In my opinion, and this is just speculation, the reason that people who breed spider to spider don't see these issues very often is because the lethal combos die early in incubation or possibly even before the female lays. There is no way to tell in these clutches if the egg just went bad for normal reasons, or if it went bad because of a possible double dose of spider. But bottom line is if you breed spider to spider that every egg has a 1/4th chance of carrying the lethal double gene and dying in incubation (or possibly not being laid at all). Plenty of people do it though, with very little apparent issue.

About your ball though-- he looks like a fire spider. If that's what he was sold as, I wouldn't doubt the label.

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Originally Posted by kxr

As far as I'm concerned the spider gene is the same as the jaguar gene in carpet pythons. If this is the case the super is likely lethal.

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Yes they are considered analogous genes.