Consensus on kiln dried pine shavings

Okay, so as much as I like coconut husk, it tends to get really messy and more or less gets everywhere when i do daily maintenance. Aspen is something I don't want to use based on what has been told/what I read on the internet.

I know that kiln dried pine is not harmful to rodents at all even though virtually everyone says otherwise. The question stands now, are kiln dried pine shavings okay for ball pythons? I've seen various threads on the matter on the site but I have yet to find a solid conclusion to it.

Does any one have any experience with it?

I suspect you will have difficulties finding a very clear consensus on the internet about much of anything. However, I may be able to shed some light. When we were kids, we used to use pine shavings for reptiles and rodents because we were told cedar shavings were bad for small animals. We used pine shavings for years without noticeable problems.

Now that there is so much more information available, there is some better data. An early medical study involving wood bedding and hepatotoxicity found a connection between red cedar, ponderosa pine, and white pine and elevated liver enzymes. Generally speaking, cedar appeared to be worse than pine regarding liver enzyme activity. Another study was able to induce liver damage by housing solely on pine shavings and some found a correlation with an increase in upper respiratory cancers. Both studies were in laboratory mice. For what it is worth, hardwoods like aspen did not show the same levels of hepatotoxicity.

My suspicion is that most animals can live on pine shavings with no observable signs of illness that would cause most owners alarm, but if the study was done, would potentially correlated with a decreased lifespan. In one anecdotal report, one individual who kept rats normally observed them living for 2-3 years, but when he switched one to newspaper, it lived for approximately 6 years. Clearly the "n" value here is not sufficient for any legitimate conclusions, but perhaps it is food for thought.

I am curious now though, who told you aspen was bad / where did you read this information and what was the claim?

I didn't say aspen was bad, just not ideal. I've been told it molds easily, doesnt hold smell, and it basically non-absorbant.

Thanks for the insight!

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

I didn't say aspen was bad, just not ideal. I've been told it molds easily, doesnt hold smell, and it basically non-absorbant.

Thanks for the insight!

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In that case it's left to me to say that aspen is BAD :)

I hate the stuff , it looks horrid , it makes light coloured snakes plus white or albino ones look washed out and it gets everywhere ( used to drive the wife bonkers ) as it seems to stick to the snakes when you get them out .

I use dark , rich looking orchid/ reptile bark looked great and natural ,
it makes the snakes look wonderful and colourful , holds as much or as little moisture as is needed and It can even be sieved / cleaned / dried and reused ( if you're on a tight budget ). .

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...at+pine+debate

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

In that case it's left to me to say that aspen is BAD :)

I hate the stuff , it looks horrid , it makes light coloured snakes plus white or albino ones look washed out and it gets everywhere ( used to drive the wife bonkers ) as it seems to stick to the snakes when you get them out .

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Opinion.....

There is nothing wrong with aspen. I use larger water bowls than most so I do not have humidity problems with it. Other than that its great and spot cleans are easy.

I've used aspen for years on all my snakes and it's been fine. With that said, I have recently switched to ReptiChips which is awesome. I only switched because my local supplier for the 7.5 cu ft bags of American Excelsior quit carrying it and I don't want to pay $50 shipping online. Only downside is 1 brick of ReptiChips is enough to do all my snakes once a month or so. So it costs me now about $250 a year vs $100. Does look nice though.

Here is a stack of T10s with aspen
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...31a1cf80_b.jpg

And the same stack with the ReptiChips
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...845127de_b.jpg

I wrote this regarding rodents. My apologies.

What brand Aspen do you guys use and where do you get it....