Het question

A bp can't be het for 2 genes only 1 right? Ill have my toffino enchi within a week and was messing around on WOBP just seeing the different morphs I could make with her (double recessive is complicated) and when it shows het albino het toffee it would be one or the other correct?

I'm a novice trying to learn when it comes to genetics so I thank you!

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

A bp can't be het for 2 genes only 1 right? Ill have my toffino enchi within a week and was messing around on WOBP just seeing the different morphs I could make with her (double recessive is complicated) and when it shows het albino het toffee it would be one or the other correct?

I'm a novice trying to learn when it comes to genetics so I thank you!

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A snake can be het for many different recessives, as long as they aren't allelic to each other.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

A snake can be het for many different recessives, as long as they aren't allelic to each other.

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Oh nice! Learn something new everyday lol. Since I have only ever seen bps advertised as being het for one gene I assumed that it was bc there could only be one. Thanks!

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You picked a hard one to understand double recessive. Toffino is of course het albino, het toffee. Both are on the same allele which is why you have a visual. If you bred this animal to a normal every animal would be either het toffee or het albino and absolutely no way to know which was which until they were bred.

Here is the URL to a helpful genetics reference that is a free download:
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer.pdf

As ball pythons have approximately 20 thousand gene pairs, it is quite easy for a given snake to have more than one heterozygous gene pair and more than one homozygous gene pair. For simplicity, we ignore all the gene pairs that are homozygous normal (to the best of our knowledge and belief). We call the snake homozygous or heterozygous depending on which gene pair we are most interested in.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

You picked a hard one to understand double recessive. Toffino is of course het albino, het toffee. Both are on the same allele which is why you have a visual.

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Toffino is not a double het. A double het has two heterozygous gene pairs. Toffino has a single heterozygous gene pair made up of two different mutant genes. This called a compound het (see glossary link below).

By the way, alleles are different versions of the same gene. Toffee and albino (and normal) are alleles. Toffee and albino (and the normal version of the gene) have the same locus (location where they reside in the chromosomes).

Here is the URL for a genetics glossary: http://www.cancer.gov/publications/d...ics-dictionary

When you look up the definitions for homozygous and heterozygous, note that there is nothing about what a het creature looks like. A snake with a codominant mutant gene (like pastel) paired with a normal gene is just as much a het as a snake with a recessive mutant gene (like albino) paired with a normal gene.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

If you bred this animal to a normal every animal would be either het toffee or het albino and absolutely no way to know which was which until they were bred.

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This is correct. Because both a het toffee and a het albino look like a normal snake.

paulh, I agree with everything you say. I am at fault for trying to tailor my response to the audience. Very few of the terms we use in the hobby are correct and most of the time people are only interested in the end result. When I know I am speaking to someone that has read at least a few genetics textbooks my terminology and definitions change drastically.

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

.... I'll have my toffino enchi within a week and was messing around on WOBP just seeing the different morphs I could make with her (double recessive is complicated) and when it shows het albino het toffee it would be one or the other correct?

....

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You are half right here.

A compound het like toffino could look like a toffee or an albino or it could look different from both. In this particular case, toffino can be distinguished from both albino and toffee. The toffee mutant gene is codominant to the albino mutant gene.

A compound het snake with a lesser allele paired with a mojave allele is a blue-eyed white. It can be distinguished from a super mojave but cannot be distinguished from a super lesser. The mojave mutant gene is recessive to the lesser mutant gene.

Two alleles are classified as dominant/recessive/codominant based on the appearance of the heterozygous creature compared to the two homozygous types. A compound het has no normal allele in the gene pair, so how a mutant gene is classified compared to normal is irrelevant. When a mutant allele is classified against another mutant allele, the two mutant alleles must be named. Simply calling a mutant allele a recessive (or a dominant or a codominant) mutant means that it is recessive (or dominant or codominant) to the normal allele.

Wow that's a lot of information, I'm going to have to read it over a few times lol but that is good info, thank you!

In the particular case of the toffino enchi I'm getting would it's offspring be het for both albino and toffee or just one or the other? Does it depend on what its paired with?

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And to make matters worse, wobp seems to still think toffino is a double recessive, making their calc useless to use for you.

I think mine is the only one that does it right http://www.owalreptiles.com/genetics...21&0&pos&issue

Normally I refer people to morph market for gen calc needs but he still needs to set up the allelic recessives.

There are already visual triple recessives so there are also triple hets.