Banana

Hello, I have a male maker banana male here.

If I breed him with like spider female, will the offspring only result in 100% banana male and rest are non banana females?
Or I can still have a chance to get a male banana spider, with the rest non banana are females?

Thanks in advance.

To my understanding: The banana offspring are almost certainly going to be male, and any non-banana offspring are almost certain to be female, but there is a slight chance of a male non-banana and/or a female banana. The offspring would be equal (25% each) chances at: Normal, Spider, Banana, and Banana + Spider.

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Originally Posted by Caspian

To my understanding: The banana offspring are almost certainly going to be male, and any non-banana offspring are almost certain to be female, but there is a slight chance of a male non-banana and/or a female banana. The offspring would be equal (25% each) chances at: Normal, Spider, Banana, and Banana + Spider.

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Thank you Caspian. I just thought earlier that I'd sold my male, if I have no chance to produce any spider banana morph. Male offspring is still acceptable to me.

Just to be sure, have you ever tried breeding a male maker banana with other morphs?
I really don't want to waste my time with this morph, if I can't produce other banana combos.

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Originally Posted by Cajuputi

Thank you Caspian. I just thought earlier that I'd sold my male, if I have no chance to produce any spider banana morph. Male offspring is still acceptable to me.

Just to be sure, have you ever tried breeding a male maker banana with other morphs?
I really don't want to waste my time with this morph, if I can't produce other banana combos.

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I've never bred snakes, but the information is out there to be found. Banana and Spider are both co-dominant genes, rather than recessive. Pied is an example of a recessive. So if you bred a Pied snake to a snake that was neither Pied nor het. for Pied, you would get het. Pied offspring. Not visible Pied offspring. But because Banana and Spider are co-dominant genes, the offspring could be banana, spider, normal, or banana-spider. There's no way to know for certain until the eggs hatch, basically. You could end up with all banana-spiders if you get really lucky - or you could end up with all normals, if you're really unlucky. Both of those are possible outcomes, but pretty unlikely. Most likely, you would get a mixture of offspring. It's a random shot, and there's really no way to control it. Even if you had two Bananas and bred them together, there's the possibility of normals. I think the only way to guarantee that the offspring will have a co-dominant gene in them is to have a parent with the super form of the gene, so that you know the offspring will get a copy of it - for example, if you had a Super Banana, you'd be assured that all the hatchlings would, at the least, be Banana.

There are others around who know far more about breeding snakes than I do - hopefully they'll chime in if I've got anything wrong, and correct me!

The banana gene only messes with the sex off the offspring. The morph production is exactly the same as any other co-dom gene. Feel free to play with this calculator, http://www.owalreptiles.com/genetics.php, to better understand your production chances.

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Originally Posted by Caspian

I've never bred snakes, but the information is out there to be found. Banana and Spider are both co-dominant genes, rather than recessive. Pied is an example of a recessive. So if you bred a Pied snake to a snake that was neither Pied nor het. for Pied, you would get het. Pied offspring. Not visible Pied offspring. But because Banana and Spider are co-dominant genes, the offspring could be banana, spider, normal, or banana-spider. There's no way to know for certain until the eggs hatch, basically. You could end up with all banana-spiders if you get really lucky - or you could end up with all normals, if you're really unlucky. Both of those are possible outcomes, but pretty unlikely. Most likely, you would get a mixture of offspring. It's a random shot, and there's really no way to control it. Even if you had two Bananas and bred them together, there's the possibility of normals. I think the only way to guarantee that the offspring will have a co-dominant gene in them is to have a parent with the super form of the gene, so that you know the offspring will get a copy of it - for example, if you had a Super Banana, you'd be assured that all the hatchlings would, at the least, be Banana.

There are others around who know far more about breeding snakes than I do - hopefully they'll chime in if I've got anything wrong, and correct me!

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Well, I understand the gene thing, just got confused with banana. If it still follows the gene rule, then I'm good with it.
Thanks :)

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

The banana gene only messes with the sex off the offspring. The morph production is exactly the same as any other co-dom gene. Feel free to play with this calculator, http://www.owalreptiles.com/genetics.php, to better understand your production chances.

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Thank you for confirming.

Mike Wilbanks made a pretty good video explaining the genetics of bananas. You definitely have a chance to produce a banana spider male, 25% chance for that specific combo with it more than likely being male.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71ZoSk0vGiY

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Originally Posted by Caspian

Banana and Spider are both co-dominant genes, rather than recessive.

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You're correct that Banana is incomplete dominant, but Spider is still generally regarded as simple dominant... Even if one or two breeders have claimed that they produced a super form, it looks exactly like the heterozygous form making it "simple dominant". In my personal opinion, the fact that these purported "supers" are incredibly rare despite the popularity of the morph suggests that Spider is simple dominant and "homozygous lethal" in the majority of cases.

As for OP's question, Banana is sex-linked (when inherited from a male), but Spider is not sex-linked. Therefore, half of your banana offspring should be spiders. If anything, you have higher odds of producing male banana spiders rather than lower odds.

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Originally Posted by Cajuputi

Hello, I have a male maker banana male here.

If I breed him with like spider female, will the offspring only result in 100% banana male and rest are non banana females?
Or I can still have a chance to get a male banana spider, with the rest non banana are females?

Thanks in advance.

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If you pair your male you will have the chances of producing

25% Banana Spider
25% Banana
25% Spider
25% Normal

That is as far as mutations.

Now regarding the sex it will depends if you have a male maker or a female maker.

If you have a male maker the Banana and Banana Combos will be males and the rest females in the vast majority of the cases, however it's not always true Male makers can produce female Bananas or Banana combos on occasion.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

If you pair your male you will have the chances of producing

25% Banana Spider
25% Banana
25% Spider
25% Normal

That is as far as mutations.

Now regarding the sex it will depends if you have a male maker or a female maker.

If you have a male maker the Banana and Banana Combos will be males and the rest females in the vast majority of the cases, however it's not always true Male makers can produce female Bananas or Banana combos on occasion.

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In other words, you expect 50% males and 50% females. Of a male-maker's offspring, each male baby has a 25% chance of being normal, a 25% chance of being banana, a 25% chance of being spider, and a 25% chance of being banana spider. Each female baby has an approximately 49% chance of being normal and a 49% chance of being spider. There is a tiny chance of a female banana or female spider banana, but don't expect any.

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Originally Posted by Family Jewels

You're correct that Banana is incomplete dominant, but Spider is still generally regarded as simple dominant... Even if one or two breeders have claimed that they produced a super form, it looks exactly like the heterozygous form making it "simple dominant". In my personal opinion, the fact that these purported "supers" are incredibly rare despite the popularity of the morph suggests that Spider is simple dominant and "homozygous lethal" in the majority of cases.

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Biochemically, codominant and incomplete dominant mutants act differently. At the level we are working at, we can't tell the difference. For simplicity, we lump both together under the term "codominant".

If homozygous spider is usually lethal before hatching, then spider is a codominant mutant gene. We call spider a dominant mutant gene because it is not a recessive mutant gene and we are unsure whether it is a full dominant or a codominant (or one of the other types of less than fully dominant mutants).

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Originally Posted by Family Jewels

As for OP's question, Banana is sex-linked (when inherited from a male), but Spider is not sex-linked. Therefore, half of your banana offspring should be spiders. If anything, you have higher odds of producing male banana spiders rather than lower odds.

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I am pretty sure that neither the spider nor the banana mutant gene is sexlinked. If banana was sexlinked, a male banana's female offspring would be 50% banana. I don't think anyone has figured out the reason for male-makers and female makers.

I have wondered. If a male-maker banana male is mated to a normal female, are there statistically more males than females? Or are the males and females approximately equal in number?