Beginner Questions & Blue-Eyed Leucistics

Hello Everybody,

I am brand new to snake ownership. I know someone who loves snakes, and after several visits where I got to meet his animals, I realized that snakes are not the awful things I imagined, but quite interesting. I spent a lot of time learning about snakes on the internet and dreaming about having one of my own, then last weekend I saw one for sale and had a gotta-have-it moment. He's a young male butter morph ball python, about 150 grams, and he's in his new home being nice and mellow while I wonder if I've gotten in over my head. By that I mean I'm yucked out about the thought of feeling a dead rat pup to see if it's the right temperature to feed him. I can handle everything else. He arrived here on Thursday. I got help getting the plastic tub just right for him from someone who knows ball pythons quite well. I have six years' experience raising geckos, so I'm not new to herps, and have crested, chahoua, and leopard geckos.

A few newbie questions, please. His cage has cypress mulch on the floor. When I feed him, should I move him to an empty 10 gallon long enough to feed so he doesn't ingest any, or will that cause him to think of feeding when he's in it and strike at me? I read both comments while reading up on snakes on the internet. I do have a pair of small feeding tongs.

His cage is a little lower in temps than recommended, about 84-85 on the warm end, but he doesn't seem to want to stay there all the time. He seems happy going back and forth between the warm and cool ends during the day. Is this warm enough? Should I listen to the snake, who seems comfortable, or to the care sheets?

He's a butter, and I was told his father is a nuclear champagne and his mother a normal, and if bred with a mojave, lesser, or another butter, he could produce blue-eyed leucistics. I've searched the net, but can't find the answer to what would happen if you bred two blue-eyed leucistics or a butter, lesser, or mojave to a blue eyed leucistic. Two blue-eyed leucistics should probably give you more of the same, but what about breeding one to a butter, lesser, or mojave? Would you increase your chances of white snakes, or does that result in deformities, like breeding two merle dogs? Those questions are just in case I decide to get further into this.

Many thanks!

The chances of getting the bel are all the same. I think mojo x mojo gives black eyed ones. But the Lucy is the super form of the morph so there isn't anything else beyond if you do a Lucy x lesser you'll just get lessers and lucies. No don't use a separate bin to feed your bp. Eating some substrate won't do anything to the snake.

butterball you should get a infrared thermometer these are great and a must have, keeps you from guessing temperatures.

If you haven't heard of it before check out the ball python genetic wizard. It let's you pick different morphs and shows you what you will get when breeding.
As for feeding outside the tub. I do with all of mine. Some people say yes and some say no but I always do and that's my choice. I don't think there's much of a benefit to ether it's just the way iv always done it and iv never had an issue.
As for temps younger royals seek cooler temps more than adults but it's still important to get the temps right. I would see if you could bump it up just a little.

And for the rat temp. Get a temp gun to check the temp of the rat and you'll never have to touch it.
Good luck and congratulations on becoming a royal owner

Yes!! That takes care of the problem. I have a temp gun, but didn't think of that. Thank you! (breathing a sigh of relief)

I just bumped up the thermostat a little and will recheck it in a few hours, and held him for the first time. He seemed a little intimidated by me, but he's a beauty and we'll probably get to be friends. He's quarantined in the bathroom. Are there any reptile diseases that can pass between snakes and geckos?

upper 80s is more ideal. but if the room he is never gets below 75-ish, i would say 85 for a hot side is ok. breeding him to another butter gives each egg a 25% chance of being a BEL. breeding him to another BEL gives a 50% chance of BEL to each egg. Mojo x Mojo is also BEL, blue eyes. Mojo x Butter is a BEL, blue eyes, as well. Black eyed leucistic is super fire.

Hi, butterballpython. Welcome to the forum!

The World of Ball Pythons (http://www.worldofballpythons.com) has a genetics wizard that will tell you the results of those matings.

As far as we know, lesser and butter are the same thing.

There are several different ways to get a BEL (Blue-Eyed Leucistic). If you understand merle dog breeding, you are close to understanding lesser (butter) and mojave breeding.

A merle dog has a gene pair made up of a merle gene and a normal gene. A double merle has a gene pair made up of two merle genes.

A butter ball python has a gene pair made up of a butter gene and a normal gene. It is the genetic equivalent of a merle dog. A super butter ball python is a BEL because it has a gene pair made up of two butter genes. It is the genetic equivalent of the double merle dog.

Mojave works the same way. But a super mojave has some pigmentation on the top of the head and neck. It is classed as a BEL, but it is not quite as good a color as the super lesser.

The Mojave gene is slightly different from the butter gene. If a ball python has a gene pair made up of a butter gene and a mojave gene, that butter/mojave snake is as good a BEL as a super butter and better than a super mojave.

As I understand it, a super butter has a tendency towards an abnormally-shaped head. Super mojave and butter/mojave BELs generally have normally shaped heads, which is preferred.

Mating a lesser (butter) to another one gives the expectation of
25% of the babies are normals
50% of the babies are lessers
25% of the babies are super lessers (BEL)
Actual results are likely to differ from expected results.

Mating a butter to a mojave makes your expectation
25% of the babies are normals
25% of the babies are lessers
25% of the babies are mojaves
25% of the babies are lesser/mojaves (BEL)

Mating a butter/mojave to a butter/mojave makes your expectation
25% of the babies are super mojaves (BEL)
50% of the babies are butter/mojaves (BEL)
25% of the babies are super butters (BEL)

Hope that helps. Check into the genetics forum if you have more genetics questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paulh

A merle dog has a gene pair made up of a merle gene and a normal gene. A double merle has a gene pair made up of two merle genes.

A butter ball python has a gene pair made up of a butter gene and a normal gene. It is the genetic equivalent of a merle dog. A super butter ball python is a BEL because it has a gene pair made up of two butter genes. It is the genetic equivalent of the double merle dog.

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Just wanted to point out about the dog example (though kind of off-topic), it's not exactly the genetic equivalent- just the resulting white appearance is similar. There is no known genetic defect in BEL's, while double merles do. Every double merle puppy has a 25% chance of being deaf, blind, or both, whether at birth or very early in its life. Breeding merle to merle is 100% unethical to breed in the dog world.

BEL ball pythons lives are totally fine, besides the bug eyes in young Super Lessers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Just wanted to point out about the dog example (though kind of off-topic), it's not exactly the genetic equivalent- just the resulting white appearance is similar. There is no known genetic defect in BEL's, while double merles do. Every double merle puppy has a 25% chance of being deaf, blind, or both, whether at birth or very early in its life. Breeding merle to merle is 100% unethical to breed in the dog world.

BEL ball pythons lives are totally fine, besides the bug eyes in young Super Lessers.

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It's good to hear they'd be fine. I thought maybe something similar to the merle situation might be the reason I didn't see anything on line about breeding BEL x BEL. I'm glad there's no problem.

And than you for the breeding chart, Paul. I'm not far enough in and don't know enough about ball pythons to be breeding them yet. Producing BELs is just something I was thinking about.