Retained shed, wrinkled blue eyes

Hi,
I am a new member. I have 6 cornsnakes and 2 ball pythons.
My balls are Camille who is a baby around 9 mos old and
Sudan, who will be three in July and is 3 1/2 feet long.

I am new to balls and kept Camille's humidity level up to about 80%
since she had her first, bad shed with me in January. I got her in Dec.
She developed a RI almost two weeks ago...she wheezed a bit and clicked.
I took her to a vet who put her on oral Baytril for three weeks. She hates
it. I have been told by other snake owners to give her shots but my vet said she was too young. So she has gotten 5 doses of the med and hasn't wheezed in two days.
She did a beautiful shed three weeks ago that was all in one piece. From the high humidity I am sure. But I did'n't know any better but now I do.
I have read the care sheet here on the forum and now have her temps on both sides adjusted along with the humidity. I have it lower so she gets rid of the RI.
My question is should I keep her for three weeks on the Baytril. I can't feed her while she is on it as I was told she will regurge since the digestive flora will be all screwed up from the antibiotic. She hasn't eaten now for almost 2 weeks. She only weighs 226grams.

Sudan is new to me. I got him last Thursday. When I got there I saw that he had blue eyes. The lady told me he had been blue for two days. Today is a full week later and he is still blue but his eyes look dry and wrinkly. I emailed the lady and she said it sounds like he is retaining his shed due to the stress from the move. She said she was afraid that would happen. I told her that I wish she had told me that as I would have waited to get him after he had shed at her house. She also told me that when she got him from a breeder a year ago, he had a bad shed and retained his eyecaps. She had to have a vet remove the eyecaps. She said he has been fine since then.
He seems completely blind and is bumping into things in his cage. I know it is new to him but I am worried that he might be completely blind.

What do I do for a retained shed? I have a plastic shoebox with water in his tank and he won't use it. He is supposed to be a calm, nice snake but he is a bit agitated right now and I don't blame him.
I have his humidity up to about 80 right now trying to help him shed. Temp is 85 on hot side and 80 on cool.

I need help fast. What do I do for him?

Linda Lathrop
\___/\___/\__@<
Camille - 7/04 Normal Ball Python
Sudan - 7/25/02 Normal Ball Python
Cree - 2000 Okeetee corn
Pauite - 7/04 Regular corn
Spirit - 7/04 Bubblegum snow corn
Spot - 1/04 Creamsicle corn
Chu'a - 7/04 Ghost corn
Edgar A Poe - 6/04 Blizzard corn

good to see you here linda i email you just a little bit ago about this. and then come here and see you have join one of the best groups out there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Linda

Hi,
"I am a new member. I have 6 cornsnakes and 2 ball pythons.
My balls are Camille who is a baby around 9 mos old and
Sudan, who will be three in July and is 3 1/2 feet long."

Welcome!

"I am new to balls and kept Camille's humidity level up to about 80%
since she had her first, bad shed with me in January."

I might be wrong but I believe 80% humidity is WAY too much for a ball python. You should keep her at 50-60% humidity. (forgive me if I'm wrong). If you are helping her with a shed you should give her a soak in lukewarn water to assist the shed instead of raising the humidity to 80%.

"I got her in Dec.
She developed a RI almost two weeks ago...she wheezed a bit and clicked.
I took her to a vet who put her on oral Baytril for three weeks. She hates
it. I have been told by other snake owners to give her shots but my vet said she was too young. So she has gotten 5 doses of the med and hasn't wheezed in two days.
She did a beautiful shed three weeks ago that was all in one piece. From the high humidity I am sure. But I did'n't know any better but now I do.
I have read the care sheet here on the forum and now have her temps on both sides adjusted along with the humidity. I have it lower so she gets rid of the RI.
My question is should I keep her for three weeks on the Baytril. I can't feed her while she is on it as I was told she will regurge since the digestive flora will be all screwed up from the antibiotic. She hasn't eaten now for almost 2 weeks. She only weighs 226grams."

You can keep her on it for three weeks. I do not believe that it will cause any problems if you dont feed her for 2 or 3 more weeks. That wieght might be an issue though. How old is she?But hen again if it seems to be working you might be able to take her off the meds

"Sudan is new to me. I got him last Thursday. When I got there I saw that he had blue eyes. The lady told me he had been blue for two days. Today is a full week later and he is still blue but his eyes look dry and wrinkly. I emailed the lady and she said it sounds like he is retaining his shed due to the stress from the move. She said she was afraid that would happen. I told her that I wish she had told me that as I would have waited to get him after he had shed at her house. She also told me that when she got him from a breeder a year ago, he had a bad shed and retained his eyecaps. She had to have a vet remove the eyecaps. She said he has been fine since then.
He seems completely blind and is bumping into things in his cage. I know it is new to him but I am worried that he might be completely blind.

What do I do for a retained shed? I have a plastic shoebox with water in his tank and he won't use it. He is supposed to be a calm, nice snake but he is a bit agitated right now and I don't blame him.
I have his humidity up to about 80 right now trying to help him shed. Temp is 85 on hot side and 80 on cool.

I need help fast. What do I do for him?"

If he has a retained eye cap you shoyld use olive oil or vegetable oil (can't remeber which one. and gently rub her eyecap with a Q-Tip.

Linda Lathrop
\___/\___/\__@<
Camille - 7/04 Normal Ball Python
Sudan - 7/25/02 Normal Ball Python
Cree - 2000 Okeetee corn
Pauite - 7/04 Regular corn
Spirit - 7/04 Bubblegum snow corn
Spot - 1/04 Creamsicle corn
Chu'a - 7/04 Ghost corn
Edgar A Poe - 6/04 Blizzard corn

---

it baby oil not olive or vegetable.

oh and welcome to the site!

Just because I'm a nag...

Hot side temps should be 90-95. 85 is too low, unless its nighttime.

Is the whole shed stuck, or just the eyecaps? If it's the whole shed, like Jon said, I would take him, put him in like a Rubbermaid shoebox type box with a lid, and put just a bit of room-temp water. Put him in it for 30-45 mins (he'll probably hate you for it). When he comes out, you should see the skin is just hanging off. I use a wet washcloth and VERY GENTLY rub it off. Other methods are putting him in a wet pillowcase or a wet towel and letting him crawl around to get the shed off, but I didn't have any luck with those methods.

I'm sure you know this now, but keeping the humidity at 80% is exactly why your girl got an RI. You only want humidity that high during the shed phase. Otherwise, Jon's right again, 50-60% is more than adequate.

If the vet said to keep her on the meds for 3 more weeks, you probably should do it. She'll be fine, food wise. They can go months and months without food with no ill effects. Regurgitating meals is VERY tough on their digestive system, so if the vet said there's a risk if you feed, I definitely wouldn't do it until the digestive system is back on track. You could do more harm than good, by far.

I wouldn't worry about that weight TOO much, my guy was about 2' and only 225 g. when I took him to the vet a couple months ago. He was a problem feeder though, and has bulked up handsomely (aka a ridiculous amount) since feeding regularly. As long as you feed appropriate-sized prey regularly, you'll see your BP flourish in no time, I'm sure. :)

I'm by no means an expert. Just going by my personal experiences, feel free to do with them what you will. Good luck!

Even during nighttime, warm side temps should not go below 94-95, and cool side temps 80-84. Humidity can be around 50%, and no higher than 70% during shedding. If they are having problems shedding, you can add a humid hide made out of a gladware container(or other disposable plastic container), cut a hole in the side big enough for the snake to enter, place moist paper towels inside, put the lid back on and place the whole container on the warm side of the enclosure.

What are you using to measure temps? Also, what are you using for bedding? Different beddings hold heat and humidity differently.

Not feeding while she is on the antibiotics should be ok, but you can add some acidophilus(Snakes can have that, correct?) to help her build the gut flora back up. You can find it at any health store(GNC, etc). You may need to ask the vet for the dose. Just keep her warm, and her humidity low(45% is great), and only mess with her as need be.

With Sudan, I would place him in a rubbermaid container with a lid(small enough to fit inside the cage) and place about 1/2" of warm water in it, and leave him in there for about an hour. Just so he doesn't get cold, place the container, with him inside, on the warm side of his enclosure. He may just be dehydrated, or the eyecaps may be retained. After he soaks for an hour, let him run through a damp, rough towel, and see if that doesn't help get any of that off. If they don't come off, you can use mineral oil or even polysporin to lube his eyes up. NO baby oil, it is not meant to go on eyes.

Drop his humidity to about 70%, but try the humidity box for an hour. It should help. You dont want his enclosure wet for too long, or he could develop some scale rot, and that would just be another stressor to deal with.

Hope your guys get better, and update us on their progress. Welcome to the site, by the way! :)

Thanks to all of you who have posted. I really appreciate it.

I have a plastic shoebox with warm water and a rough washtowel in it and he stayed in for about 5 minutes. It has a hole in it and hopefully he will enter it.

His eyes are still blue. He went right into his warm side hidey.

This is what the caresheet on this forum says for temp/humidity. Does anyone disagree with this? These are the settings (90temp/55humidity) I have Camille's cage set at now.

TEMPERATURE
~90F (warm side)
~80F (cool side)
75 or below is unhealthy
HUMIDITY
50-60%
70% (or humid hide) impending shed

The caresheet also recomments a special type of temp/humidity measurement...a hygrometer I think it said. I use the round type that look like dials.
What type do you all use? Brand names would be great.
Thanks again.
Linda

If you have another box that doesn't have a hole in it, try and use that. You want him to stay in it so he gets the shed off, especially if it is encircling his body and his eyecaps are still on.

Alot of people have had better luck using higher temperatures. Temps and humidity need to be measured accurately with a digital thermometer. You can find a great combo unit at WalMart that will measure two different temp spots and the relative humidity. The brand is Acu-Rite, and it runs about $15. It can be found in the outdoor thermometer section, which is behind the household paint section. With this unit, you place the unit itself on the floor of the cool side of the enclosure, and run the probe over to the warm side and place it under the warm side hide. This way you will get accurate measurements of what temps the snake is actually experiencing. The dial-types that are found at the petstore rarely work correctly, and the snake might be burning or freezing, and you not know it.

Temps on the warm side need to be 94-95 all of the time, not just during the day. Night drops are only used for breeding. If the snake is not breeding, then it just sets it up for not wanting to eat consistently. Cool side temps should be 80-84. Temps below 80 will again set the snake up for not wanting to eat, because it most likely is thinking that it won't be able to get enough heat to its body to properly digest food. If Camille is the snake with the RI, then increasing the temperatures to the above ranges will help her heal faster and feel better sooner. How are you heating the cages? 55% is good, but no higher in the sick girl's cage.

Just remember, WalMart will probably end up being your best friend :) As well as Home Depot/Lowe's. These places help out alot as pet stores jack up their prices and try to make you believe that the only place to get supplies is at the pet store.

Let us know if there is anything else you need to know. Hope this clears a few things up for you :)

Becky,
Thanks for the info. Couple of questions.
I read online and was told by a python breeder that anything over 90 can cause physical damage to the snake.
Comments?
Also, do I need to buy 2 of those units at Walmart? One for the cool side also?

Linda

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Linda

Becky,
Thanks for the info. Couple of questions.
I read online and was told by a python breeder that anything over 90 can cause physical damage to the snake.
Comments?
Also, do I need to buy 2 of those units at Walmart? One for the cool side also?

Linda

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I would say that is dependent on how big your enclosure is. If you have something small, I would imagine one unit would be sufficient. However, I think it was Becky who posted a pic of her enclosure that showed two units; one on each side of the enclosure with each probe going to the hide on the opposite side of the tank. I have a 10 gallon right now for my hatchling, but I can be quite anal at times so I went with the two units. Maybe it's overkill, but I know I'll be wanting/needing two units when I get a larger enclosure... so might as well do it now. :D